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  1.    #1  
    Saw a news item today in my paper. Something about the UK banning spanking or severly limiting it. There was also mention of banning spanking throughout the EU. Did I read this right?

    This is not the aforementioned article.
    U.K. mulls spanking ban

    British officialdom is debating whether to outlaw all spanking of children -- even by their own parents. "Physical punishment by teachers was outlawed in Britain's state-run schools in 1986 and in private schools in 1999. ... Last year, the government committed itself to banning childminders from spanking children, even when they have permission to do so from the child's parents." The final step, now being urged by a highly mobilized lobby of purported child advocates, is to extend the ban to parents themselves. The "campaign has little to do with weighing the merits, or otherwise, of spanking as a form of discipline," writes Brendan O'Neill, assistant editor of the journal Spiked-Online. "Rather, it is driven by a view of parents, and adults in general, as not being trustworthy enough to care for children." ("Britain debates: to spank or not to spank ", Christian Science Monitor, Apr. 19).

    This is freaking hilarious. Here's another from 2003 for Canada. It's too much to paste so here's the link.

    http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=35000

    I love the part that says "There are other means," she said. "Children are very smart, and even when they are as young as two or three months old, they will understand if you have a tough look, or change the tone of your voice, or turn away from them."

    Ok how many 2 and 3 month old babies do things that require discipline? Anyone with kids here? Have you ever turned away from your child when they are doing something bad and had it suddenly stop? God my sides hurt from laughing so much. "Yes my child is so guilt stricken because i turned away from his bad behavior, he immediately stopped doing the wriong behavior."

    Does any body buy this crap??
  2. #2  
    The argument we've been having is more to do with how many children get seriously abused/killed/taken into care because their parents beat them. At the moment the law allows 'reasonable chastisement' but doesn't define it further. This means it's very hard to prosecute parents even when you find that children have fairly serious injuries. Compare that to the legal protection adults have - if someone hit me and injured me I could sue them for Actual Bodily Harm. Compare it to the legal protection animals have - it's forbidden to hit animals. If it's not ok to hit adults or dogs why is it ok to hit a child?
    This is an urgent discussion informed by several recent child abuse scandals.
    In many European, and particularly Scandinavian, countries there is an outright ban on smacking. This has lead to a demonstrable drop in the number of child deaths.
    My own personal opinion - using force to discipline a child means you are not a good parent. I believe you have to work hard to be a good parent just like you have to work hard at being good at anything else. It's not easy to not smack kids when they're being naughty but there are better ways to discipline.
    Animo et Fide
  3. #3  
    As everything there are extremes here and a large majority of the people are not going to have to change their ways because of a small minority of idiots. On top of that are all the doo gooders who will follow the law to the letter and can't see the grey middle bit and act accordingly i.e. the people that will report their neighbour when they see them giving their wayward 12 yeaor old lad a slap on the legs etc......

    No I don't agree with beating a child, it's a terrible terrible thing and can be done when anger is taken out on them but then is the law really gonna stop that. Dunno what they call it but it's one of those crimes done on spec and no laws can stop them. Because of this all the people that use a quick slap on the legs as a deterant will think about it and not do it so really it's a pretty useless law and won't protect the ones that are really getting hurt.

    I got a pretty bloody good walloping for serious naughtiness and I grew up well for it. I got caned at school a couple of times and believe me i never did it again. Bit of discipline doesn't do any harm if done right.

    Final opinion, smacking is an excellent way of helping discipline a child if it is done correctly and mixed with other incentives. It's the short sharp shock that gets the childs attention to the listen to the eduction it will get about what it has done wrong.....Smacking alone will not discipline a child.

    Interesting thread!
  4. #4  
    If you outlaw spanking parents will just kick or punch or burn their children
  5.    #5  
    It would make more sense to outlaw parenting.

    I have a friend who has 2 kids. One responds very well to verbal discipline and time outs, but actually laughs when you spank him. He thinks your playing.
    The other ignores the verbal and shapes right up with a swat on the ****.

    So this law would do the family good how?

    Seems that we have to accept that not all children respond to the same methods and abuse is a matter of perspective.

    Also to the statement that you can prosecute an adult for slapping you but it's ok to slap a kid. An adult who presses charges against someone for being slapped has no ability to deal with social interaction. I am not saying you should go around slapping people, not at all. But the person who immediately calls for prosecution of something minor like a slap needs additional conflict resolution skills, IMO. Whats next? Oh hey lets make yelling illegal, it could hurt my ears.
  6. #6  
    If you outlaw spanking parents will just kick or punch or burn their children
    Eh? Do you come from a seriously disturbed upbringing? Besides the discussed laws obviously are aimed at all physical punishments.
    Animo et Fide
  7. #7  
    Woof: I actually said "if someone hits me and injures me" not just if someone hits me.
    I agree it's not easy to discipline some children without smacking but it's not the only alternative to telling off. Stopping them playing can be pretty effective. Preventing contact with any of their friends is also quite effective. But all these things need to be in some kind of consistent framework that the kid gets every time. My point is that the adult needs to be in control of the situation even when the kid is naughty, too often smacking is used as a way of re-establishing control rather than a controlled and proportionate punishment.
    If you do smack I agree with Northernladuk that it's not a standalone. As I said parenting takes a lot of hard work, some people use smacking as an easy punishment or because they don't know what else to do. They're the ones who end up harming the kids.
    Animo et Fide
  8.    #8  
    No disagreement. It has it's place and is just one element. But since 'they' dont like that element, wht will be next? Many may think my comment about yelling was ridiculous, but I kinda doubt it.
  9. #9  
    I dont think a smack on the bum will hurt a kid, I've had them when I was out of line when I was a kid and I grew up a healthy man.
    But like always moderation is key, only spank when there is no other option...
    I think it is worse for kids to have parent that keep telling them 'Don't do that, or else' but never follow up on the or else.. Ive seen parent 'or else' after 'or else' that way you learn a kid there are no boundries.. a controlled smack can show them there are boundries, but it is better to punish in other ways..

    so my stance is, spanking is not the best sollution but banning it is silly...
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    I dont think a smack on the bum will hurt a kid, I've had them when I was out of line when I was a kid and I grew up a healthy man.
    But like always moderation is key, only spank when there is no other option...
    I think it is worse for kids to have parent that keep telling them 'Don't do that, or else' but never follow up on the or else.. Ive seen parent 'or else' after 'or else' that way you learn a kid there are no boundries.. a controlled smack can show them there are boundries, but it is better to punish in other ways..

    so my stance is, spanking is not the best sollution but banning it is silly...

    Toolkit and I agree on something. Please note your calenders!! Very well said sir!! I feel axactly the same. It wasnt the smack we were afraid of, but the fear that we had gone too far and our parents were disappointed in us. We knew if we got smacked we had crossed that line.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Toolkit and I agree on something. Please note your calenders!!
    I agreed with you on the handsfree driving too, mmmm the moon and sun must be alligned with some strange planet
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    I agreed with you on the handsfree driving too, mmmm the moon and sun must be alligned with some strange planet
    So much for all the lefties being morons!.. Just kidding folks.

    TK I am glad we can agree on somethings. I would like you know that even though we disagree I do so enjoy the debate.
    Last edited by Woof; 07/09/2004 at 12:37 AM.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    So much for all the leties being morons!.. Just kidding folks.

    TK I am glad we can agree on somethings. I would like you know taht even though we disagree I do so enjoy the debate.
    Funny thing is I am not really a lefty.. some of my thinking would be labeled left wing, while others (like this spanking thing) probably right-wing...
    But I get put in a box anyway.. go figure..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Funny thing is I am not really a lefty.. some of my thinking would be labeled left wing, while others (like this spanking thing) probably right-wing...
    But I get put in a box anyway.. go figure..

    Well now youre a moderate in my book.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Well now youre a moderate in my book.
    I'll tell you what: I'm moderator!!
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  16. #16  
    IMHO spanking is an effective tool when raising children, but only when they are young. There are times it should be used and times it shouldn't. But I think that varies so much that to try to draw rules for it in this forum is difficult and sure to cause disagreement.

    As children grow older I think it looses it's effectiviness and in fact becomes counter-productive.

    Spanking people over the age of 21 should only be done if they like it.
    "Do the Chickens have large talons?" Napoleon Dynamite
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Toolkit and I agree on something. Please note your calenders!! Very well said sir!! I feel axactly the same.

    Someone please send paramedics. I am having a heart attack reading this post!! (KIDDING!) TK and The Woof agreeing? What next, Sadam and H.M. Bush 1 conspiring together? Oh, wait, they all ready did that.
    "Do the Chickens have large talons?" Napoleon Dynamite
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by ACDriver
    Someone please send paramedics. I am having a heart attack reading this post!! (KIDDING!) TK and The Woof agreeing? What next, Sadam and H.M. Bush 1 conspiring together? Oh, wait, they all ready did that.
    - ha, good one. Hey Peter and AC, it's good to escape to a board which isn't populated by psychotic 19 year old females and women with professionally posed avatars
  19. #19  
    Yeah, if they venture onto this topic they're liable to get a spanking
    Animo et Fide
  20. #20  
    Well, there is nothing wrong with spanking IMHO. I'm ok (I think ). I did get my spankings here and there...and I deserved every single one. However, if that would have happened today, I would probably be in the witness protection program.
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