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  1.    #1  
    I am saddened to see that TC closed two threads in this section today, but I do understand the reasons. I was hoping that Treo users, of all backgrounds and cultures, will be civilized to one-another; if nothing else then for having the Treo in common.
    Perhaps it is a lesson to all of us to learn that some of the best threads here, indeed the political ones, are surrounded by land-mines. This community needs to learn how to avoid stepping on those mines; how to defuse them and continue sharing ideas: Alas disagreeing, with respect to each other.
    Let's try -- shell we?!
    Last edited by m00se; 07/05/2004 at 01:34 PM.
    I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
    -Mark Twain
  2. #2  
    Personally, moderators should not be the last to post their opinions and the closed the thread.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by ronbo2000
    Personally, moderators should not be the last to post their opinions and the closed the thread.
    Perhaps you are right but that's also the "competence" that comes with the territory.
    The point is, people need to refrain form name-calling and inappropriate comments. There are threads here in which people are having fun with teasing and silly stuff and that's GREAT! I take part in that and I am having a wonderful time. But when it comes to political opinions some people get hot-headed while inflammatory remarks run wild. It is plain stupid.
    You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing.
    -Michael Pritchard
  4. #4  
    I agree with m00se, and I am aware of the fact that in one post I called one of Woof's statements stupid, so I am to blame too (sorry!). However, I am not sure whether closing whole threads because some people use the wrong tone is the rigth way. Can moderators e.g. just delete some posts and warn the ones who wrote the bad stuff?

    miradu, I liked your last post in the wife-beater thread, but that thread wasn't really bad, and had found it's way back to a civil tone, so specially in this case I don't understand why the thread is closed now (although I understand that this is your/the mod's forum and we are only guests here).
  5. #5  
    Adding my dollar: Although m00se is right, fundamentally, I can see how some people would have different interpretations of what's stupid. We do have different tolerance levels and boiling points. So I'd echo clulup by saying: moderate rather than close.
    Last edited by Muziek; 07/05/2004 at 02:33 PM.
  6. #6  
    It is hard to moderate an individual post in a thread when the tone of the post is inflammatory... I could delete it, but often I come in late and a large chain of threads has started from it. Therefore it is much easier to close threads, because that almost always fixes the problem. If you want to keep discussing something, by all means start a new fresh thread, you can even reference the old one, but by doing this the thread starts fresh again, and is not tainted by whatever was in the previous thread. The basic key is to keep things civilized, and we won't care.

    And please don't take this as TC trying to stop you from discussing politics - if anything we need to discuss it more, if at least to try to learn someone elses views. I doubt we'll change minds here on TC, people are set in the ways they think, but it is important that we understand, through reading the concerns of our fellow users, what people see wrong or right in this country, and more importantly why. Just always remember to take a step back, and keep it civilized, don't taunt the other users, don't attack them directly. Attack the points that they raise, not the person who wrote the points.
    -Michael Ducker
    TreoCentral Staff
  7. #7  
    I'm as guilty as others in getting het up by political arguments but I do try to lighten the tone when I realise I'm not being equable. Interesting historical point here - if you ever go to see the Houses of Parliament in London and go into the House of Commons you'll see two lines in front on the benches. These are the sword lines, you have to stand behind the lines in order to minimise the risk of serious injury through sword fighting! Political arguments have always got heated.
    Animo et Fide
  8. #8  
    Perhaps some politicians are better off, at least in their constituents' eyes, crossing the two lines in front of the benches once in a while...
  9. #9  
    First thing I'd like to say is this thread is to get information, not start a big negative situation. Hopefully my questions and comments will not be received poorly by the powers in charge in our little community.

    I recently participated in two threads that were closed today. I am curious about something. Mr Ducker would you please help me to understand.

    You closed the threads about Moore's movie and the wifebeater thread because of comments made by me I guess.

    On the first you said
    Woof, you're out of line here. Do not attack users of this forum, especially moderators! This thread is closed, and Woof if you continue these attacks on other threads, we will be happy to take all steps in removing you from these forums.
    Am I to assume then that in a discussion that a moderator chooses to participate in we are not allowed to respond to them like any other poster? Do we have to treat them with kid gloves because they are mods? I am not being disrespectful of your position, I am just trying to clarify. Would you please let me know how I crossed the line in this thread as you put it, so I dont do it again. I'd also like to point out that other poster were acting in an insulting manner in that thread and you did nothing. Specifically
    Quote Originally Posted by chulup
    Hydrogen is not the most plentiful element in the universe....stupidity is - as just proven by fabulous Woof himself, congrats!
    Why is it allowable for chulup to call me stupid and the thread stays open. Did he get a warning about being removed? Is it because I am not a moderator? I think that is lame. A mods opinion on a subject has no more value than mine or anyone elses. Board issues yes, but discussion topics no. I would call that abuse of power. IMHO.

    On the second thread, the wifebeater one, you posted the thread closed only after stating your opinion about the whole thing. I personallythink, and this is just my opinion, that closing the thread was no big deal, but closing it with your opinion on the subject was a tad heavyhanded. Is that how a mod is supposed to use their power? To squelch dissenting opinions? I for one dont think that is fair.

    I'd also like to point out that both these threads were in Off Topic and very similar to many others I have read/posted in. What was the difference? What is the point of having an off topic forum if these kinds of discussions arent allowed? I guess there ought to be a sticky in the off topic lounge detailing what exact language is allowed. I dont mean actual words cause I know the system blanks them automatically.

    I guess I'll just stay out of the off topic section and stick to treo issues. It seems that all opinions arent welcome. Sad because even though I have nothing personaly against anyone I disagree with l love a good debate.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by ronbo2000
    Personally, moderators should not be the last to post their opinions and the closed the thread.
    I'd agree with that.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    First thing I'd like to say is this thread is to get information, not start a big negative situation. Hopefully my questions and comments will not be received poorly by the powers in charge in our little community.

    I recently participated in two threads that were closed today. I am curious about something. Mr Ducker would you please help me to understand.

    You closed the threads about Moore's movie and the wifebeater thread because of comments made by me I guess.

    On the first you said

    Am I to assume then that in a discussion that a moderator chooses to participate in we are not allowed to respond to them like any other poster? Do we have to treat them with kid gloves because they are mods? I am not being disrespectful of your position, I am just trying to clarify. Would you please let me know how I crossed the line in this thread as you put it, so I dont do it again. I'd also like to point out that other poster were acting in an insulting manner in that thread and you did nothing. Specifically

    Why is it allowable for chulup to call me stupid and the thread stays open. Did he get a warning about being removed? Is it because I am not a moderator? I think that is lame. A mods opinion on a subject has no more value than mine or anyone elses. Board issues yes, but discussion topics no. I would call that abuse of power. IMHO.

    On the second thread, the wifebeater one, you posted the thread closed only after stating your opinion about the whole thing. I personallythink, and this is just my opinion, that closing the thread was no big deal, but closing it with your opinion on the subject was a tad heavyhanded. Is that how a mod is supposed to use their power? To squelch dissenting opinions? I for one dont think that is fair.

    I'd also like to point out that both these threads were in Off Topic and very similar to many others I have read/posted in. What was the difference? What is the point of having an off topic forum if these kinds of discussions arent allowed? I guess there ought to be a sticky in the off topic lounge detailing what exact language is allowed. I dont mean actual words cause I know the system blanks them automatically.

    I guess I'll just stay out of the off topic section and stick to treo issues. It seems that all opinions arent welcome. Sad because even though I have nothing personaly against anyone I disagree with l love a good debate.

    I'm with you woof. Seemed odd to me as well. I tend to stick to treo topics as you can see from my posts and stay out of most of the off topic ones. (except for my monkey with a treo )
    I do watch some of these other threads and chime in from time to time. I generally think if you want to post an opinion in a forum such as this you better be prepared to take the hits from people that disagree. (even if we know they're wrong Woof ) Let's lighten up. With that please close this thread so my opinion will be the final word.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    I agree with m00se, and I am aware of the fact that in one post I called one of Woof's statements stupid, so I am to blame too (sorry!). However, I am not sure whether closing whole threads because some people use the wrong tone is the rigth way. Can moderators e.g. just delete some posts and warn the ones who wrote the bad stuff?
    Egad I agree with chulup .

    Unfortunately when typing as opposed to speaking the 'tone' of a post is determined by the reader, at least in some part. Someone could write something totally innocent and someone else could take it as an attack. It seems to me that someone with a dissenting opinion would be more likely to come to that conclusion. Heck I took it personal when chulup said my comment was stupid, and I dont really think he meant it personally.


    Chulup is that really you in your avatar? If it is, I must congratulate you on some wicked nice abs.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by dutchtrumpet
    I'm with you woof. Seemed odd to me as well. I tend to stick to treo topics as you can see from my posts and stay out of most of the off topic ones. (except for my monkey with a treo )
    I do watch some of these other threads and chime in from time to time. I generally think if you want to post an opinion in a forum such as this you better be prepared to take the hits from people that disagree. (even if we know they're wrong Woof ) Let's lighten up. With that please close this thread so my opinion will be the final word.
    NO I want to have the last word!!

    Seriously, I dont want this thread closed. I want to understand Miradu's stance. I was not attacking anyone in those threads. I was voicing my opinion on the topic and trying to make my point. Nothing more.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    NO I want to have the last word!!

    Seriously, I dont want this thread closed. I want to understand Miradu's stance. I was not attacking anyone in those threads. I was voicing my opinion on the topic and trying to make my point. Nothing more.
    I was joking...I swear, no one here get's me
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    Woof, there's a thread started by m00se that is dealing with the issue of closing threads. You might find it interesting and maybe it will also avoid some redundancy.
    Have read it and responded chick, thanks. Dont think its redundant as my specific issues/questions arent addressed there. Thanks though.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by dutchtrumpet
    I was joking...I swear, no one here get's me
    gee now where did you get that line?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by ronbo2000
    Personally, moderators should not be the last to post their opinions and the closed the thread.
    Mods should have the discretion to close whatever thread they deem appropriate. However, I was bothered by the fact that the mod closed the thread, but then took the opportunity to post a detailed opinion and barring any response to it. That ought not to happen.

    Having said that, I appreciate the work the mods do to help provide a forum for all of us.
    Palm V-->Visor Deluxe-->Visor Prism-->Visorphone-->Treo 180-->Treo 600-->Treo 650 on Sprint-->Treo 700p-->Centro-->Diamond-->Pre-->HTC EVO 4g???!
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by ronbo2000
    Personally, moderators should not be the last to post their opinions and the closed the thread.
    I know I personally try to, and believe others do as well, the practice of saying nothing more in the final post "This thread has gotten out of line," or somethign to that effect. If people are in a debate, it would be disappointing to say one last thing and then lock it up. However, it would also be bad to lock it up without giving a reason.
  19. #19  
    Closing heated threads is counter-intuitive. Heated debates are great for discussion forums.
  20. #20  
    I merged the two similar threads about my actions this morning into one.

    I still think that I was right to close the threads, however in hindsight posting my opinion with a thread closure was inappropriate. The Wife beater thread has been reopened so that you all can respond to what I said and to what others said earlier in the thread appropriately.

    Regarding, specifically WHAT triggored me to want to close the F911 thread:

    In the F911 thread, Woof you said,
    Do they have turnip trucks inthe Dutchie part of Australia. They must cause you sound like you just fell off one.... This is why I asked about the turnip truck, because I am sure you have sufferred from a severe head injury. Where the hell are you getting this crap from?....Until then please stop with the blatant stupidity....Am I being clear yet? Are you able to understand simple english? You have been watching too many movies or something. Try getting outside more....
    That one post, pushed things over the edge for me. Sure I could delete your post, censure you, but the built up anxiety and frustration that caused that post still exists in that thread. I close the thread, and people when they post later think a bit more before they post.

    That wasn't the only "bad" post, earlier cellmatrix said
    Does it make you feel smarter to call other people a moron? Why do you do so much hate mongering?... If they can approach this without name-calling and lie-tagging, through your efforts, maybe you all can win a few converts over to your side as a reward for your efforts.
    and even earlier, cluup said (and woof also responded as rudely)
    Hydrogen is not the most plentiful element in the universe....stupidity is - as just proven by fabulous Woof himself, congrats!
    The F911 thread had to much junk in it for it to be a worthwhile thread on TreoCentral. As I said before, you're welcome to start a new thread, with perhaps some more constructive criticism.
    -Michael Ducker
    TreoCentral Staff
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