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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    OK, lets keep things civilized here, first you complain about namecalling, then you post this
    If you talk the talk walk the walk my friend...

    And no 'but he started it' BS... we are grownups here, act that way..

    As for the stupid remark, that could have been said a bit better I agree, however you have to admit that nuking a country is not the most clever sollution in the current state of things...

    Sheesh, it was a joke.

    As for the Bush could nuke Iraq comment, I was making the point that I felt there was no choice when presented with Kerry vs Bush. Even if Bush did nuke Iraq, or Switzerland or Holland or any other damn country, I would choose him over Kerry. Kerry is famous for saying whatever he thinks he needs to to be popular. I think that is a horrible position for a potential president to take. Bush may not all ways do the right thing nor do I always agree with him. I do admire his willingness to do what he feels is right, even if it means being unpopular. Real leaders dont care about popularity.
    Liberals need to realize you cant always make everyone happy. Some people get the shaft in every situation. That's life. There is always a loser.
    Last edited by Woof; 07/04/2004 at 10:56 AM.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  2. #82  
    "real leaders don't care about popularity" agreed.

    I apologized so we can get back to civilized discussion. now if THEY start namecalling again, well then we know who the hypocrites are then.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    The biggest party is Labour (Tony Blair's party) which has trade-union and communist origins. Still in terms of your views labour (and Tony Blair) would probably be classed as liberal.
    Though I'm no expert, I follow British politics more than most Americans. On a left-right continuum, I'd order them Lib-Dems, Green, Labour, Democrat, Conservative, Republican. The difference between the pairs (lib dems and green, labour and democrat, conservatives and republicans) are much larger than the intra-pair differences. One caveat, is that I'd put Tony Blair even with or to the right of the democratic party. Similarly the "leader" of the Democratic party (Kerry) is slightly to the right of the party median. The interesting thing is, I'd say Bush is actually to the right of the party median.
  4. #84  
    Heres an interesting take on the movie by someone who is hardly 'on the right'

    http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

    Funny when your own side thinks youre a moron.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    Thanks, apology accepted!

    Rest assure that I'd jump on a liberal too if I think he/she is being a 'jerk'! (Not that I am perfect, so keep me inline as well.)
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Heres an interesting take on the movie by someone who is hardly 'on the right'

    http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

    Funny when your own side thinks youre a moron.
    Does it make you feel smarter to call other people a moron? Why do you do so much hate mongering? Maybe you should ask yourself, why do you hate liberals so much?

    Maybe you and the other angry conservatives on this forum have a different perception of the term liberal than liberals themselves do.

    When I think of liberal, I think of someone who is unselfish, and who does not mind paying taxes for improving our environment and helping our fellow Americans.

    Maybe I have a different view of the term conservative than conservatives themselves have. When I think of conservative I think of people who are selfish, and do not want to give up tax money for almost anything, except maybe for promoting wars.

    Sure I am probably wrong about this overgenrealization of conservatives. While I still can't get past the notion that you all are selfish, just getting angry rhetoric does nothing to convince me otherwise.

    Lets see the conservatives educate us, as to how they are not selfish, what they think being a liberal really means, and why is it so bad to be one. If they can approach this without name-calling and lie-tagging, through your efforts, maybe you all can win a few converts over to your side as a reward for your efforts.
  7. #87  
    Stop arguing, Democrats, Republicans, the only difference is the way they screw the middle class!!!!!!



    Yes, Michael Moore is an *****, all politicians lie, these are absolutes.



    We fought for our freedom from the King; only to be replaced by another form of dictatorship.



    Follow the history and you will find that the same few families have been involved in everything that has happened from the beginning.
  8. #88  
    Moron is a fun word and sooo descriptive in this case. But lets set that aside and look at your post in little easy to understand sections.

    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    Does it make you feel smarter to call other people a moron? Why do you do so much hate mongering? Maybe you should ask yourself, why do you hate liberals so much?
    Hate mongering? Please, calm down. I dont hate anyone liberal or otherwise. Maybe you should ask yourself why you think some one who disagrees with your point of view hates everyone. And for that matter why do you give a s h i t if I hate anyone? Oh ya, the liberal creedo is love everyone and dont make anyone feel bad. I keep forgetting that.

    Maybe you and the other angry conservatives on this forum have a different perception of the term liberal than liberals themselves do.
    No maybe's there bud. I doubt there's a conservative (which I have never once claimed to be) that thinks they have the same perception as liberals on pretty much any topic. And who's angry??

    When I think of liberal, I think of someone who is unselfish, and who does not mind paying taxes for improving our environment and helping our fellow Americans.
    Look at what you said. If liberals are so unselfish why are taxes necessary to get them to give? And why cant our fellow Americans just help themselves? Is it because you think no one can get anywhere without a handout? If people took responsibility and just took care of themselves and their families then there would be no need for all these $$wasting social programs you lefties love. And please dont give me that crap about being disadvantaged by race or socioeconomic status. If a person wants to change their lot in live they can. If that werent true then how would any minority get a position of importance/power/celebrity? I supose Colin Powell is Sec of State because of some liberal program. You can't be that dumb. Or Denzel Washington is a successful actor because he was handed all the roles from the governent? Oprah is one of the richest women in the country because the governemnt helped her out? The examples are numerous and I know it wont matter how many I give. And please dont pull the race card and complain that all my examples are black.

    Maybe I have a different view of the term conservative than conservatives themselves have. When I think of conservative I think of people who are selfish, and do not want to give up tax money for almost anything, except maybe for promoting wars.
    Again why do we have to pay taxes for something we are willing to do anyway. I give thousands a year to charities and not because I am taxed, but because I think it is a good thing. How does that make me selfish? I'd give a hell of alot more if I wasnt taxed so much to pay for all the lazy good for nothings that sponge off the goverment dole. Promoting wars? C'mon grow up. If conservatives were really all about wars, they'd start one and wipe out all the whiny 'dont say anything to hurt their feelings' leftists out there. Sometimes people need to be taken out. Loving conversation doesnt always work yunno. Evil people dont listen to reason or follow the rules.

    Sure I am probably wrong about this overgenrealization of conservatives. While I still can't get past the notion that you all are selfish, just getting angry rhetoric does nothing to convince me otherwise.
    Ya youre wrong. Conservatives arent selfish. They have no problem helping out others in need. It's just that they dont like to be FORCED TO DO IT BY THE GOVERNMENT!!!!! They believe in personal responsibility and taking care of ones own. If we all did that...said that already and I know there's no point in repeating.

    Lets see the conservatives educate us, as to how they are not selfish, what they think being a liberal really means, and why is it so bad to be one. If they can approach this without name-calling and lie-tagging, through your efforts, maybe you all can win a few converts over to your side as a reward for your efforts.
    If have already explained why conservatives are not selfish. As seen from the right, liberals are all about giving their money to some agency/government/organization to be distributed to those who need it. What is commonly known as socialism or communism. What is wondered by the right (and even the middle) is how the hell do you ever expect people to take care of themselves when they are always getting a handout?? If your mom always cleans your room for you and you never get punished for being a lazy slob AND you still get your allowance, what will ever make you want to do it yourself? Answer: NOTHING! To word it another way, if you are always getting a check from the governement to pay your bills and never get in trouble for not trying to get a job, will you ever get a job? Answer: NO!

    Let me ask you and any other liberal something. And I am going to assume you have a job for this one. Have you ever been annoyed/pissed off/frustrated by a coworker that just doesnt seem to pull their weight. One who obviously lets the rest of the group do most of the work and just collects their paycheck? If you have then you are actually a conservative. Think about that and just apply it to the larger picture. Maybe you'll get it maybe you wont.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    Stop arguing, Democrats, Republicans, the only difference is the way they screw the middle class!!!!!!



    Yes, Michael Moore is an *****, all politicians lie, these are absolutes.



    We fought for our freedom from the King; only to be replaced by another form of dictatorship.
    Oh boohoo for the middle class. It is possible to get out of the middle class yunno. What exactly did you fight the king for? And is it a dictatorship just this term or has it always been that way? If it is so bad why dont you move?



    Follow the history and you will find that the same few families have been involved in everything that has happened from the beginning.

    What's so bad about that? This country has been free for 228 years. Are they really doing that bad a job? Or are you just mad because youre still in the middle class? Seriously though, since you have done the research and know this to be true, could you name them for us? In fact post the family trees so we can see the proof ourselves.
    Now youve made me think. I am going to have to trace Bill Clinton's lineage back to the Mayflower. Or did you do it all ready? And what happened to the Vanderbilts, Carnegies and Rockefellers? Did they change their names to hide?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  10. #90  
    Wow, I'm out of town for a few days and it seems everyone's blood pressure has boiled over on this topic.

    Bottom line for me is this: All polititians "spin" news, or in other words, emphasize and de-emphasize their actions and events to put them in the best light as possible. Every one of us here spin things. At some point, however, too much spin becomes deceit and then becomes a simple lie.

    My perspective is based upon my experience, education, and background. From my perspective, Bush is a trustworthy guy who speaks from convictions rather than (just) polling data. Right or wrong, he has tried to do the important things based upon his convictions, rather than based upon opinion groups or popularity. Because I trust him, I give him some slack on some of his decisions. Yes, he also spins things big time, but from my perspective, this guy has a good heart.

    I view Cheney, Rice, Lieberman, Nader, Tony Blair, and even Putin the same way. They have many different perspectives, but each seems to truely stand for what he or she thinks is right, instead of being blown about by public opinion.

    Again, from my perspective, Kerry and Gore seem to constantly remake themselves according to who they want to influence. How many times has Gore changed his personality? Gore is having these crazy screaming episodes lately because it puts him in the news. How many different positions is Kerry going to make on the same issue?

    Anyway, we all have our own perspectives based upon our experiences. If your opinions (though different than mine) are based upon sincere convictions and rational thought - I say peace and Happy 4th of July!
    Palm V-->Visor Deluxe-->Visor Prism-->Visorphone-->Treo 180-->Treo 600-->Treo 650 on Sprint-->Treo 700p-->Centro-->Diamond-->Pre-->HTC EVO 4g???!
  11. #91  
    No, I live fine, outside of my Viper I have all I have ever wanted, but arguing is not solving anything.

    George Bush, Bill Clinton, are only the puppets for those who are in real control.

    The people who control the world do it in the shadows, yes you know two of the families, trace the groups they belong to.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    George Bush, Bill Clinton, are only the puppets for those who real in real control.

    The people who control the world do it in the shadows, yes you know two of the families, trace the groups they belong to.
    OK, I'll bite: I'm guessing the groups you refer to are: (1) that Yale fraternity (I don't remember the name. I used to know the name but mysteriously forgot all about it when I went through the X-ray machine at the airport); and (2) Sam Walton. (because Walmart has way too much control over my spending)
    Palm V-->Visor Deluxe-->Visor Prism-->Visorphone-->Treo 180-->Treo 600-->Treo 650 on Sprint-->Treo 700p-->Centro-->Diamond-->Pre-->HTC EVO 4g???!
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by heberman
    OK, I'll bite: I'm guessing the groups you refer to are: (1) that Yale fraternity (I don't remember the name. I used to know the name but mysteriously forgot all about it when I went through the X-ray machine at the airport); and (2) Sam Walton. (because Walmart has way too much control over my spending)
    Nope, pick some:

    The Trilateral Commission
    FreeMason
    Bilderburgers
    The Illuminati
    Council On Foreign Relations
    Order of Skull and Bones
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    No, I live fine, outside of my Viper I have all I have ever wanted, but arguing is not solving anything.

    George Bush, Bill Clinton, are only the puppets for those who are in real control.

    The people who control the world do it in the shadows, yes you know two of the families, trace the groups they belong to.

    I foind it odd that you speak so openly of the existence of this conspiracy, and yet you will not openly name it's members. What gives?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  15. #95  
    You have two of them..
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    You have two of them..
    Ah naming them gives them power, I get it. Must be the Carnegies, now known as the Smiths and the Vanderbilts now known as the Jones'. Or maybe the Rockefellers, now known as the uh uh Johnsons. Whoa sh!t is that at black helicopter landing in my yard??
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  17. #97  
    A few, Rockefellers, Morgans, Rothschilds.
  18. #98  
    Woof, I appreciate your taking the time to respond to my comments. I guess my the main difference between you and me is that I feel that you cannot rely on the good will of charities and the private sector to solve all of the major domestic problems in our country. Not gonna happen, and I think that anyone who believes that is fooling themselves.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    Woof, I appreciate your taking the time to respond to my comments. I guess my the main difference between you and me is that I feel that you cannot rely on the good will of charities and the private sector to solve all of the major domestic problems in our country. Not gonna happen, and I think that anyone who believes that is fooling themselves.
    I see. Youre saying the common person isnt good enought to help his fellow man. You think youre smarter and can fix the world if you just have the money. Or is it you think that only you can be trusted to do the right thing and everyone else should be forced. That my friend is why conservatives despise liberals.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof

    As for the Bush could nuke Iraq comment, I was making the point that I felt there was no choice when presented with Kerry vs Bush. Even if Bush did nuke Iraq, or Switzerland or Holland or any other damn country, I would choose him over Kerry. Kerry is famous for saying whatever he thinks he needs to to be popular. I think that is a horrible position for a potential president to take. Bush may not all ways do the right thing nor do I always agree with him. I do admire his willingness to do what he feels is right, even if it means being unpopular. Real leaders dont care about popularity.
    Liberals need to realize you cant always make everyone happy. Some people get the shaft in every situation. That's life. There is always a loser.
    Do you realize what you are saying here?
    You'd prefer killing of millions of people over a politician that listens to the will of the people?
    I understand you value priciples, which is fine, but on the other hand the job of a politician is to do the will of the people, not his personal convictions...
    And the fact you support using nukes worries me...it only takes one fool to start using nukes and pretty soon we are in WWIII blowing up the whole planet..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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