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  1. #41  
    Precisely my point. English is a minority language in most of the world and therefore CNN is not a major news source outside the US unless you don't speak the language where you are.
    Animo et Fide
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbaldon
    You have still not offered YOUR solution.
    I don't have THE solution - there is no quick solution. Here are some points that would help/have helped a lot:

    - Don't go to war on your own with not enough soldiers to prevent chaos after the fighting is over.

    - Don't behave so arrogantly. It is enough if most arabic people hate you, you don't have to make the rest of the world despise you.

    - Don't go to war for false reasons (WMD)

    - Don't be Ariel Sharon's best friend all the time, try work for a fair solution in the Middle East instead of supporting everything Sharon does. Votes in the UN security council usually end with Israel plus USA against the rest of the world, including the other Western countries.

    - Don't treat people like animals and deprive them of their human rights, especially if you have to assume that some of them are innocent (Guantanamo). If you do it anyway, it will only create more hatered and backfire for sure.


    BTW, what country do you live in that makes you an expert on what the Americans think and or thought? I ask only because I'm curious about your souce of information.
    This is common knowledge for anybody who follows several news outlets and not only Fox News. Is it acceptable for you if I quote the Associated Press, or are they also left-wing extremists? Here the text:

    **********************************************
    Published on Tuesday, July 1, 2003 by the Associated Press
    Poll Says Most Americans Believe Saddam-9/11 Link Has Been Proven

    WASHINGTON - Seven in 10 people in a poll say the Bush administration implied that Iraq and its leader Saddam Hussein were involved in the Sept. 11 attacks against the United States.
    And a majority, 52 percent, say they believe the United States has found clear evidence in Iraq that Saddam was working closely with the al-Qaida terrorist organization.

    The number that believes this country has found weapons of mass destruction is 23 percent, down from 34 percent in May, according to a poll conducted by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland.

    Prewar assertions by the Bush administration about al-Qaida's ties to the Iraqi government have not been proven, and weapons of mass destruction have not been found since the invasion of Iraq.

    CIA officials have said that two trailers recovered in Iraq were mobile biological weapons laboratories; Bush administration officials have called the trailers the most significant evidence yet that their allegations of Saddam's weapons programs were accurate.

    Only four in 10 of those polled, 39 percent, said they thought the government was being fully truthful when it presented evidence of links between Saddam and al-Qaida. But among those who thought the government was not telling the truth, people were more likely to say the government was "stretching the truth, but not making false statements" rather than "presenting evidence they knew was false."

    The number who want the United Nations to take a leadership role in Iraq has grown from 50 percent in April to 64 percent now.

    More than 60 U.S. troops have died in Iraq since President Bush declared May 1 that major combat had ended. But the American public remains committed to sticking with the Iraq mission.

    Eight in 10 said the United States has the responsibility to remain in Iraq as long as necessary until there is a stable government.

    The poll of 1,051 adults was taken June 18-25 by Knowledge Networks and has an error margin of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

    © 2003 The Associated Press
    ***********************************************

    How do you explain that "Seven in 10 people in a poll say the Bush administration implied that Iraq and its leader Saddam Hussein were involved in the Sept. 11 attacks against the United States"? Illiteracy, Fox News, disinterest, disinformation?
    Last edited by clulup; 06/24/2004 at 12:04 PM.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    This is common knowledge for anybody who follows several news outlets and not only Fox News.
    Yeah! Custard pies! Now you're getting into the spirit of it.


    Weeeeeeeeee... splat.
    Animo et Fide
  4. #44  
    [QUOTE=clulup]The problem is that there is no evidence for Cheney's claim. The 9/11 commission found no evidence, the CIA etc., Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld could not provide any. THAT is precisely the point. QUOTE]

    Again, if there is no connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda then what is a high ranking, Jordanian member of Al Qaeda doing living in Iraq and beheading people? Did he just show his passport to American troops at the border after the invasion and enter the country?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    I never claimed Bush had actually SAID Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11. Nevertheless, he kept mixing the two subjects until in the end a majority of Americans thought it was so. That is why I called it a PRPRPR $or$ $rather$ $a$ $disinformation$ $masterpiece$.
    I've found Bush to always be quite distinctive in saying the war on Iraq was in connection to the war on terror - and not 9/11. It is political opponents such as yourself who keep ignoring what is actually said in his statements and just spout, "But 9/11 did not have anything to do with Iraq but the administration is trying to convince you otherwise.", who have Americans thinking that he is trying to blame 9/11 on Iraq. It is in fact a successful campaign of disinformation against the administration by political opponents.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    I don't have THE solution - there is no quick solution. Here are some points that would help/have helped a lot:

    - Don't go to war on your own with not enough soldiers to prevent chaos after the fighting is over.
    - We tried but almost no one other than Britain and South Korea and a few others had the courage to send troops. So we followed our conviction to do what we thought was the right thing and went to war with what we had.

    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    - Don't go to war for false reasons (WMD)
    - We didn't. It's been well established that Iraq had WMD's at one point. Stated by even the Clinton administration and Hans Blix. The problem was that Hussein destroyed them during the Clinton administration during a period when he had violated the '91 Gulf treaty and removed UN inspectors so no one had proof that they were gone. Would YOU believe him if he said they had destroyed him and just took his word for it? If that crazy *** ***** Hussein had just let the inspectors in the country while they destroyed them then none of this would've happened and an evil dictator would still be in power. Ironic, eh?


    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    - Don't be Ariel Sharon's best friend all the time, try work for a fair solution in the Middle East instead of supporting everything Sharon does. Votes in the UN security council usually end with Israel plus USA against the rest of the world, including the other Western countries.
    - Maybe the Palestinians should've taken the peace offer that Clinton worked so hard to get them back '99 to give them a country instead of deciding to keep on suicide bombing school buses.

    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    - Don't treat people like animals and deprive them of their human rights, especially if you have to assume that some of them are innocent (Guantanamo). If you do it anyway, it will only create more hatered and backfire for sure.
    We don't. That's why there are guards being courtmartialed and sentenced to prison terms. How many other countries would've done that instead of just sweeping it under the table?

    Well, that was at least a start for you clulup. You at least offered generalizations but what should we do now? Pull out of Iraq and throw the whole region into all out war? Then just keep condemning Israel at the UN enough times until Al Qaeda believes were they're friend and stops planning terrorist attacks against us?
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  6.    #46  
    producer, thankyou! you nailed it right on the head.

    what these devil's advocates seem to miss is that clinton did exactly what you said - nothing to keep these terrorists at bay while they began strengthening their positions.

    well now, they have gained ground and we are dealing with the aftermath of the plans these terrorists were planning out while clinton was devoting his ever valuable time courting mistresses and doing things - JUST BECAUSE HE COULD. People, doesn't that **** you off??!! he was avoiding the growing threat to america - yet you praise him - ITS TRULY, TRULY AMAZING.
    I think you are the ones who are naive, misinformed and misguided. don't start criticizing others when you in fact, have absolutely no better alternative solution to the problem. its so easy to find fault with plans and strategies. you do that part SO well. but ya know, when people ask you to offer better ideas, for when it counts, where are you?
    there's silence. there is an obvious vacancy of thought on your part there.

    would you rather have people of action or people with no clue what to do but have all the answers when its time to criticize someone? you're a joke - please be of use and contribute toward a sophisticated solution, don't just blow negative smoke all around. USELESS.

    we will get nowhere with thinking like that at our helm.
    Last edited by treobk214; 06/24/2004 at 09:01 PM. Reason: typo
  7.    #47  
    by the way dems, remember somalia? well after our BRILLIANT handling of that TERRORIST NIGHTMARE, al qaeda reportedly became encouraged and emboldened to attack us ( us cole ) because of how we backed out of that whole situation. we became a country that would back down when attacked! that's great!

    then later that year, hundreds or thousands of somalians were allowed to cross our borders into the state of maine. why? god only knows!!! mr clinton? anything to contribute?

    then the us cole, then a few attacks on the wtc with no followup on clinton's part to take action. hmmm.... are ya following dems?

    then 9/11. oooohh now its suddenly bush's fault, huh? you people are sadly way off if you think so.

    then recently, a young man decides to try and blow up a mall in ohio? and friends, can ya guess what nationality he was?

    YES THATS RIGHT FOLKS! HE WAS A SOMALIAN! YEAHHHH! THANKYOU VERY MUCH, BILL!
    you were right " you did a lot of good!"

    so do the math all you people who are, from your high horses, criticizing all the opinions here.
    you know I see no genius of thought from your corner of the ring here but you have plenty to offer as far as negativity!
    so please, enlighten us with some intelligent thought here, otherwise, try to leave room for those who want to TAKE ACTION!!!
    Last edited by treobk214; 06/24/2004 at 09:02 PM. Reason: typo
  8.    #48  
    12 mustard and sarin gas art€
  9.    #49  
    12 mustard and sarin gas artillery shells have just been found in iraq today - YES, THESE ARE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, PEOPLE!
  10. #50  
    I love this. Let the world remember we have jet powered tanks. These people are fire ants, plain and simple. Kill them all, let god sort them out.

    Worked in '45.

    Save the flames you liberals ... I will not respond, between the buddies I've lost in both wars and in the WTC, I've enough.

    Plan B, drill in the Arctic, and leave all the dirtbags with nothing to sell us...
  11.    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by hostage46
    I love this. Let the world remember we have jet powered tanks. These people are fire ants, plain and simple. Kill them all, let god sort them out.

    Worked in '45.

    Save the flames you liberals ... I will not respond, between the buddies I've lost in both wars and in the WTC, I've enough.

    Plan B, drill in the Arctic, and leave all the dirtbags with nothing to sell us...
    amen, brother.
  12.    #52  
    killing them ALL is not the thing to do, but i can relate to your sentiments

    and these terrorists ARE nothing but fireants - right on the button.

    squash them as such. period
    Last edited by treobk214; 06/24/2004 at 11:50 PM.
  13. #53  
    Mustard gas? Okay sarin is a little bit scary but mustard gas? And it's doubtful whether you can class artillery shells as WMD anyway. Missile warheads is what is normally meant.
    Animo et Fide
  14.    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    Mustard gas? Okay sarin is a little bit scary but mustard gas? And it's doubtful whether you can class artillery shells as WMD anyway. Missile warheads is what is normally meant.

    sarin is NERVE GAS, peter - let me spell this out. you... die ... a ... horrible... death.... you go into convulsions, your muscles go into paralysis, you froth at the mouth and do this for a prolonged time before finally suffocating not only from the inability to breath but from choking on bodily fluids....

    peter, if you cant seem to see this as more than a 'little bit scary" , you are delusional!!!

    im mean, if you think administering sarin gas to thousands of people to have them writhe around, convulsing and constricting involuntarily until their final moments of life - is just.. well,, maybe .. only a little bit scary.. pal you are in need of some serious reality checks..

    you folks boggle the mind. devil`s advocates to the end. no matter what the issue. now that... peter.. is boring.
  15. #55  
    maybe or maybe not
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  16.    #56  
    peter, if someone shot a sarin loaded missile into your living room... would you just sit there and say.. well at least they were nice about it and didnt send a nuclear missile?

    maybe you should go back to talking carrot cake with chick dance
  17. #57  
    When I said it was a little bit scary that's a normal figure of speech. You don't have to react with hyperbole. And WMD surely means that it would kill lots of people? You would kill more people with a sarin shell than a normal shell but not thousands. Like I say, it's a chemical weapon, it's not a weapon of MASS destruction.
    Animo et Fide
  18.    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    When I said it was a little bit scary that's a normal figure of speech. You don't have to react with hyperbole. And WMD surely means that it would kill lots of people? You would kill more people with a sarin shell than a normal shell but not thousands. Like I say, it's a chemical weapon, it's not a weapon of MASS destruction.

    mindboggling logic
  19. #59  
    sarin in sufficient quantities and with the means to deliver it to a lot of people is a WMD. Sarin in a small shell is a nasty battlefield munition. Sarin on its own is just an extremely nasty chemical.

    In any case that's splitting hairs, and we could argue precise terms all day. I wasn't originally disagreeing with you about sarin, just objecting to mustard gas being in the same category.
    Animo et Fide
  20.    #60  
    so they could take a chemical and kill 2000 people like they did when hussein used it against his OWN people, but as long as they dont kill 5000 people, well then i guess we can sit back down and say we cant call it a weapon of MASS destruction, just a little ole chemical weapon.

    peter, i have to be honest... your type of thinking is pretty damn disturbing. we make every freaking excuse for our enemies but try this distorted rhetorical logic to try and prevent your own country from protecting itself.

    truly amazing how you folks tick. it really is.
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