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  1.    #1  
    Where to buy Gas

    >

    >The Saudis are boycotting American goods. We should return the favor.

    >An

    >interesting thought it to boycott their GAS. Every time you fill up the car,

    >you can avoid putting more money into the coffers of Saudi Arabia. Just buy

    >from gas companies that don't import their oil from the Saudis.

    >

    >Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fill-up

    >the

    >tank, I am sending my money to people who are trying to kill me, my family,

    >and my friends. I thought it might be interesting for you to know which oil

    >companies are the best to buy gas from and which major companies import

    >Middle Eastern oil (for the period 9/1/00 - 8/31/01):

    >

    >Shell.........................205,742,000 barrels

    >Chevron/Texaco.........144,332,000 barrels

    >Exxon /Mobil..............130,082,000 barrels

    >Marathon/Speedway...117,740,000 barrels

    >Amoco......................62,231,000 barrels

    >

    >If you do the math at $30/barrel, these imports amount to over $18

    >BILLION!

    >

    >Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil:

    >

    >

    >Citgo....................0 barrels

    >Sunoco............. .0 barrels

    >Conoco............. .0 barrels

    >Sinclair............... 0 barrels

    >BP/Phillips.......... 0 barrels

    >Hess...................0 barrels

    >

    >All of this information is available from the Department of Energy and

    >each

    >is required to state where they get their oil and how much they are

    >importing.

  2. #2  
    That chain letter has been going around for some time now and those numbers seem a little skewed. Nevertheless, driving a 12mpg/26 gal. pick-up, I'm all for whatever helps bring gas prices back down a bit.
  3.    #3  
    At least 50 cents per gallon......
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by cferd
    That chain letter has been going around for some time now and those numbers seem a little skewed. Nevertheless, driving a 12mpg/26 gal. pick-up, I'm all for whatever helps bring gas prices back down a bit.
    Yes, I think the dates show that, but the point is still valid.

    Middle Eastern oil (for the period 9/1/00 - 8/31/01):
  5. #5  
    lol if you boycotted middle eastern oil your prices would soon go up as other suppliers struggled to meet demand!
    Maybe you should stop driving 12mpg vehicles instead
    Animo et Fide
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    lol if you boycotted middle eastern oil your prices would soon go up as other suppliers struggled to meet demand!
    Maybe you should stop driving 12mpg vehicles instead
    Plus, as long as Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the Saudi Ambassador, acts as a member of the Bush Administration, it is not going to happen.

    April 21 2004: "Saudis Deny Oil Prices Tied to U.S. Vote -
    ...Bandar said there was no plan to increase oil production"
    http://www.csnews.com/csnews/headlin..._id=1000492099

    May 21 2004: "Saudis Commit to Increase Oil Production" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...v=rss_business

    The close ties of the Bush family/administration to this No 1 breeding place of fundamentalist islamistic ideology and terrorism are truely fascinating.
    Last edited by clulup; 06/08/2004 at 09:42 AM.
  7. #7  
    The logic behind all of this is flawed. Oil is a fungible commodity. It doesn't matter where it comes from. If you don't buy oil from person A, they will sell it instead to country B. The excess oil (over the status quo clearing price) that was being sold to country B by person B will now go to country A (you). No one is richer. No one is poorer. The only thing wasted are the electrons used in generating and storing this message.

    This is very similar to: http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/gasout.htm
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    The logic behind all of this is flawed. Oil is a fungible commodity. It doesn't matter where it comes from. If you don't buy oil from person A, they will sell it instead to country B. The excess oil (over the status quo clearing price) that was being sold to country B by person B will now go to country A (you). No one is richer. No one is poorer.
    While in general/in theory you may be right, the way you put it is a bit simplistic. If the US would suddenly decide to stop buying oil from Saudi Arabia, the price in the US would go up for sure, because the US could not replace that oil just like that. It does matter at what price and speed a country produces, where pipelines go through and how fast oil-tankers can be where.
  9. #9  
    If the US did stop buying Saudi oil, the price might rise, but only marginally, enough to make it economic to divert supplies from other places (western europe and east asia come to mind as similarly marine supplied markets). Any price increase would sudden, shortlived and not all that large. Market fundamentals would not change.

    And to address your statement, it doesn't matter at what price a country produces, so long as it's less than the market price (which would be the case since a disruption will cause the market price to elevate).
  10. #10  
    Come visit us and you'll be glad you are paying $2/gal... down here we are at about $3,25/gal!

    I don't think gas prices will ever go down, and if they do it's unlikely that they will stay that way. The only long-term solution seems to be supporting the development of alternative energy sources... and stop driving 12mpg trucks!

    (Looking at current prices, I think I'll stick to my small 40mpg car for now...)

    Regards,
    Chriz
  11. #11  
    What's the pre-tax cost of gasoline in various world markets? I know the US has relatively cheap gasoline on an after-tax basis, but before taxes, I wonder where it is. Insofar as a tax is efficiently enacted (little distortion of consumer choices), it doesn't matter where it is raised (higher gas taxes equal lower income taxes, for instance).

    I still think we should levy a large tax on gasoline to bring the marginal individual cost (the price per gallon) up to the marginal environmental cost (the cost of a carbon sink, for instance). With a commensurate cut in personal income taxes (or payroll taxes), the country (and the world) will be better off.
  12. #12  
    One thing I hate about this thread: referring to "the Saudis." Anytimes you refer to a group of people in such an impersonal tone, the following words are often less than polite.
  13. #13  
    How come nobody blames the refiners, many of whom have merged (Exxon-Mobil, Amoco-BP, etc.) and are coming close to monopoly status? From what I've heard, they have just as much to do with the price of gas as the oil-producing countries....
  14. #14  
    I'm just wondering about the original post. The chain e-mail is obviously quite old so 1. Is there any current evidence for a boycott and 2. Are there many US goods available in Saudi Arabia anyway? Maybe cars and coke.
    Animo et Fide
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by pbryon
    How come nobody blames the refiners, many of whom have merged (Exxon-Mobil, Amoco-BP, etc.) and are coming close to monopoly status? From what I've heard, they have just as much to do with the price of gas as the oil-producing countries....
    Actually lots of people are blaming the refiners right now. http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/gasout.htm The refining market is not monopolized, and it will be very hard to see it going down that path. In short, the refining market is characterized by limited capacity and zero capacity growth due to: low historic returns and environmental regulations. The former cause company's to close refineries and the latter prevent new, more efficient ones, from being built. There has not been a refinery built in this country in over 20 years.
    Last edited by KRamsauer; 06/08/2004 at 04:55 PM.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    I'm just wondering about the original post. The chain e-mail is obviously quite old so 1. Is there any current evidence for a boycott and 2. Are there many US goods available in Saudi Arabia anyway? Maybe cars and coke.
    There is no evidence of a boycott (and because oil is a commodity, there's no way to tell where it comes from, so any selective boycott seems impossible). Surely there are a lot of US goods available in Saudi Arabia, everything from computers to financial services to, yes, cars and coke.
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    There is no evidence of a boycott (and because oil is a commodity, there's no way to tell where it comes from, so any selective boycott seems impossible). Surely there are a lot of US goods available in Saudi Arabia, everything from computers to financial services to, yes, cars and coke.
    Last news report, Iraqi's pay 15 cents a gallon.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    And to address your statement, it doesn't matter at what price a country produces, so long as it's less than the market price
    Good point.
    (which would be the case since a disruption will cause the market price to elevate).
    I note that you agree with me that the market price would rise.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    I still think we should levy a large tax on gasoline to bring the marginal individual cost (the price per gallon) up to the marginal environmental cost (the cost of a carbon sink, for instance). With a commensurate cut in personal income taxes (or payroll taxes), the country (and the world) will be better off.
    Very good point. We have a similar system in Switzerland, unfortunately not for Carbon Dioxide yet, but for organic solvents (as far as I remember). Companies that use such solvents have to pay a premium (which motivates them to use less of that stuff), and the money collected is redistributed per capita via health insurance. No great deal, but a proof of concept.

    Why not tell Bush and Cheney about your suggestion, I am sure they couldn't stop laughing for quite a while.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    I'm just wondering about the original post. The chain e-mail is obviously quite old so 1. Is there any current evidence for a boycott and 2. Are there many US goods available in Saudi Arabia anyway? Maybe cars and coke.
    There was quiete a strong boycott of US goods in Saudi Arabia post September 11: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0620-01.htm.

    It got a bit better lately. Here are the facts and figures, also about what goods are traded:
    http://www.saudi-american-forum.org/...F_Essay_26.htm
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