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  1. mrjoec's Avatar
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    #121  
    "Do they come to the door and hold a gun to your kid's head and take his allowance? Who are 'they'? Please explain the procedure for children paying off the deficit. I don't think it will work because of child labor laws. Now maybe if we hire some kids making Nike's in Aisa to do it you might be on to something."

    Come on, now. Being a little facetious, aren't we? Or do you really not understand what they're getting at with this statement? I'm not saying I agree with it, but you at least understand the basic concept of paying off debts, don't you?

    I agree with you that global warming is not a universally-accepted theory among scientists. But Bush's environmental record isn't exactly something to be proud of, regardless. And I wouldn't have a huge problem with that if he didn't CLAIM to care about the environment. If he believes the economy benefits from allowing corporations to "bend" environmental laws, and that ultimately, environmenal issues are overrated by the tree-huggers in this country, then just say that and be done with it. Don't write flowery Earth Day speeches and pretend that saving the environment is a priority if it isn't.

    "Why then do thousands come to the US for healthcare from other countries? Cause we suck? Ever gotten medical treatment in Canada or GB. You could die waiting for an appointment."

    Do they? Every foreigner I know (especially the ones from Canada) came here for other reasons, and if they have only one complaint, it's that health care here sucks. Maybe if you or I went to Canada, we'd run into issues. But Canadian citizens in general are proud of their health care system (at least the ones I've met).

    "As a father I'd say abortion sucks. Can't imagine doing it."

    I can't either. But I think it's funny that you think the government should stay out of things that don't effect you, such as social programs, yet abortion, which again doesn't effect you (since you've already decided you'd never do it) needs to have laws created to prevent it?

    "Why not pay attention to WTF your doing and avoid getting pregnant in the first place. It's not that hard to do."

    Now you're really flaunting your ignorance. Even the staunch pro-lifers are cringing at this one, woof.

    "Church and state. Do any of you lefties know what it says? The governement will not establish a state religion. That means the goverment cant say "Ok you're all Baptists now or we'll lock you up". It doesnt mean that there can be religious references in everyday life. I mean how many religions are there in this country? Do you want wipe them all out? That's sounds more like establishing a non religious state, non religious meaning religion doesnt exist. Besides the B of R says 'freedom of religion' not from it."

    I agree with you that this is what was said in the original amendment. But like all things in our government, it all depends on how you "interpret" the words on the page. Also, over time, these interpretations change.

    Thomas Jefferson interpreted "All men are created equal" to mean that All white landowning men (not women) over 21 are created equal. Does that still apply today?

    The last thing I would ever want is the destruction of all religions within our state. But at the same time, I don't like our paid government officials holding prayer meetings during working hours. Just as you don't like paying for social programs to help people other than you, I don't like paying for people's superstitious and sometimes downright dangerous belief systems.

    I don't care what religion the president is. But I shouldn't be reminded every day in his speeches and policies, either. And I certainly don't want to hear him use his religion to justify laws that effect people who don't subscribe to that religion.

    "Marriage is the union of a man and a woman. Gays and lesbians can have all the same rights afforded by marriage, with a legal contract. Why would they want something that is by definition closed to them? It makes me think of two lesbians having sex and always using a strap on. If you need the phallic device to enjoy sex why be a lesbian, just get a man? If you want a 'marriage' get a opposite sex partner. If you dont like the opposite sex, then form a legal partnership/union. It's all semantics anyway."

    ???????? Wow, you really don't understand the psychology of sexuality, do you? Telling lesbians to "just get a man"? Yikes.

    Domestic partners don't enjoy all the legal benefits of married couples, by the way. They get similar treatment, but not equal.

    I don't think that Bush is all wrong, or that the Dems could do everything better. But when the current administration does do something wrong, you'd better believe I'm going to expect them to own up to it. If you were truly thinking for yourself, you'd probably have at least one or two bad things to say about the current administration. But your wholehearted defense of everything Bush seems to indicate that you're partaking of the proverbial Kool-Aid yourself.
    mrjoec
    www.joecieplinski.com
  2. pabo's Avatar
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    #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikegold
    Try to expand your knowledge beyond the utter nonsense fed to you by Rush "The Addict" Limbaugh.
    mike - try the mature approach next time.

    of course the Supreme Court interprets the Constitution. We actually had laws once that ensured the right to own slaves, as supported by the Supreme Court.

    The Supreme Court has NOT initiated this separation crap - that was done by folks with an agenda - kinda like yourself.
  3. #123  
    Wow last time I looked we were slating the war...now its something else...

    ok just one thing...Bob....bombing countries..doesn't just get the bad guys....what did it feel like on 9/11...bad, yes really bad....imagine that everyday of your young life....War doesn't solve problems......it causes them...and really the west has gotta wake up or one day....we ain't gonna wake up....

    Give peace a chance......create a world without borders...
  4. #124  
    Hey Bob why is outsourcing so bad....are you afraid that some small person from the far side of the world can do a better job....thus increase the output of your companies and thus create jobs in other sectors.....

    How about sharing a little bit work with your fellow man on this earth...at least they come with thier skills when they come to invade...they don't bring guns...take over your oil companies....
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    Give it a rest - you just keep chanting the same theme over and over.

    Ok, your right, even though I have visited over 200 manufacturing sites in the US over that last 5 years and have PERSONALLY seen in the last 9 months:

    -significant improvement in hiring and more importantly spending on improvements
    -have seen rust belt plants beating the pants off brand new facilities in Juarez MX as far as productivity improvement
    -have seen significant business growth everywhere, ie manufacturers and service providers
    -have seen 10% or more new hires in the 3 companies I am directly involved with

    I am just kidding myself, it was all a dream, a figment of my imagination.

    Prediction - the ecomony continues to expand between now and next year, terrorists make another strike directly at the US and the economy continues to expand (because the terrorists fail to realize that true growh comes from the human spirit of desire for a better life for one's self and those around us) (and yes, that is probably why so many come from south of the border and choose to send their cash back home to feed the family) and Bush will be re-elected by a large margin.

    Store this one away and we can talk about it again next year - otherwise, this conversation is like trying to teach a pig to sing - it only frustrates you and annoys the pig (I'm pretty certain you feel the same way).
    Get in line Pabo. I've personally visited over 250 clients and potential clients in the manufacturing and service area within the last 18 months, and quess what? few are hiring. Very few! Don't even try to run with that one.

    As for the rust belt beating the pants of Mexico plants, I was just in the El Paso/Juarez and in no way are the Maquiladoras slowing down. Quit the opposite.
  6. pabo's Avatar
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    #126  
    you are simply amazing - I'm in 200 plants, you're in 250. if I correct myself and say 300 will you say 350. Why is it that I HAVE to be wrong. I HAVE been in 200 plants, most ARE hiring in the last 9 months. I HAVE worked with MX subsidiaries and they ARE NOT as productive and effective in the manufacturing setting as the US plants are currently (maybe they are not slowing down, but they are not more productive). BTW 18 months ago, no one was hiring.

    Maybe your experience is different. Contrary to your tenor you see, just because your experience is different doesn't make it WRONG.
  7. #127  
    Let's see what wonderful things prez Bush has done, shell we? He got us into a war in Iraq presumably because of weapons of mass destruction. He apparently lied about it and still manages to get patriotic support from the American public. And now there's a new scandal with the way the Bush administration is conducting interrogations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet people have time to criticize Al Gore who was not elected by the Supreme Court but was elected by the majority of the voters.

    http://discuss.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=49829
    Last edited by Schmoozer; 05/11/2004 at 07:46 PM.
    I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.
    -Sir Winston Churchill.
  8. pabo's Avatar
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    #128  
    blah, blah, blah, blah..... boring......

    the SC doesn't elect presidents, nor does a majority of the public - you know that.

    not criticizing Al, just don't agree with him.

    As for the interrogations in Iraq, there is breaking news out of Philly this afternoon. Apparently, the father of one of the soldiers charged sent letters to 17 Senators to solicit their support because he felt his son was being rail-roaded. Interestingly enough, while he is a repub, he chose to send the letters to liberal dems because he felt they would have the cookies to expose the situation and not bury it. He sent letters explicitly detailing the abuses in mid-Feb. Oddly enough, some of the same senators who are screaming they were never informed were the ones who received letters and did nothing with the info - to name a few, Clinton, Kennedy, Rockerfeller (sp), Byrd........

    d'oh !
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    The Supreme Court has NOT initiated this separation crap - that was done by folks with an agenda - kinda like yourself.
    Of course they have not initiated it, that is not their job. They have, however, upheld this interpretation.

    If by "agenda" you mean supporting the things that this country is supposed to be about, yes I guess I do have an "agenda."
  10. pabo's Avatar
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    #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikegold
    They have, however, upheld this interpretation.
    good point, just like previous courts supported prohibition and the ownership of slaves...... game, set, match.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    blah, blah, blah, blah..... boring......
    For someone who's bored you sure find the energy to respond. But if you are really bored by what I write then please don't bother.
    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    ...the SC doesn't elect presidents
    Wrong. You must have lived under a rock during the last election.
    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    ...nor does a majority of the public - you know that.
    Yes, I have heard about the electoral votes, golly, but you need to read between the lines (i.e. sarcasm).
    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    not criticizing Al, just don't agree with him.
    What makes you think I assumed you were criticizing him, or even had you in mind while writing my post?
    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    As for the interrogations in Iraq...Oddly enough, some of the same senators who are screaming they were never informed were the ones who received letters and did nothing with the info - to name a few, Clinton, Kennedy, Rockerfeller (sp), Byrd........
    That does not excuse the Bush administration. Anyone (anyone!) who knew about this and didn't do anything owes us, the public, an explanation.
    I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.
    -Sir Winston Churchill.
  12. pabo's Avatar
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    #132  
    by boring, I meant the dem talking point argument.

    whether or not there were WMDs, EVERYONE thought they were there - even Blix, although he is conveniently changing his story.

    did you read the SC decision - I have. the problem is that the FL SC was so out of control and unfounded in their actions that they (SC) called a stop to their actions (FL SC). contrary to the oversimplified view, the SC did not appoint anyone.

    finally, get the facts on the abuse issue - the US started the investigation MONTHS ago - literally days after the whistle was blown. just cause a couple senators had the undies in a knot over not having been informed (by rumsfeld, because they were actually informed by others) does not mean the issue was a presidential conspiracy.

    One thing I think we might agree on is that if Bush wanted someone tortured/killed, would he leave it to a bunch of goof-balls in a crowded building where, apparently many people had cameras ???? please, it would have been handled without any of us ever knowing..
  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrjoec
    But your wholehearted defense of everything Bush seems to indicate that you're partaking of the proverbial Kool-Aid yourself.
    I dont agree with 'everything Bush". I just happen to disagree with much of what the dems say.

    "Why not pay attention to WTF your doing and avoid getting pregnant in the first place. It's not that hard to do."

    Now you're really flaunting your ignorance. Even the staunch pro-lifers are cringing at this one, woof.
    So you're saying it is really hard to avoid getting pregnant? I don't understand your comment. Must be due to my ignorance. Since you are obviously of superior intellect, why dont you explain it so a simpleton like me can get it. What is hard about not getting pregnant?
    Last edited by Woof; 05/11/2004 at 10:32 PM.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  14. #134  
    I'm with Woof on this one. People can decide whether to become pregnant or not.

    Besides, one of the government's most fundamental responsabilities is to protect its citizens. Millions of babies ready to be born need just such protection.
    Palm V-->Visor Deluxe-->Visor Prism-->Visorphone-->Treo 180-->Treo 600-->Treo 650 on Sprint-->Treo 700p-->Centro-->Diamond-->Pre-->HTC EVO 4g???!
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    you are simply amazing - I'm in 200 plants, you're in 250. if I correct myself and say 300 will you say 350. Why is it that I HAVE to be wrong. I HAVE been in 200 plants, most ARE hiring in the last 9 months. I HAVE worked with MX subsidiaries and they ARE NOT as productive and effective in the manufacturing setting as the US plants are currently (maybe they are not slowing down, but they are not more productive). BTW 18 months ago, no one was hiring.

    Maybe your experience is different. Contrary to your tenor you see, just because your experience is different doesn't make it WRONG.
    What the hell are you talking about? Do you know? You've worked with MX subsidiaries? Do you mean US subsidiaries in Mexico? There is a difference. As for productitvity being higher in the US that would no doubt be per worker and not per dollar spent. As for the fact that no one was hiring 18 months ago, let me refine that for you. There was no net hiring 9 months to 40 months ago. All under that solid Bush jobs record.
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by heberman
    I'm with Woof on this one. People can decide whether to become pregnant or not.

    Besides, one of the government's most fundamental responsabilities is to protect its citizens. Millions of babies ready to be born need just such protection.
    Keep in mind that most of those you speak of, anti abortionists, are one in the same when it comes to outlawing promissing stem cell research using embryos from a petri dish. Were's the protection of its citizens there?
    Last edited by JTREOB; 05/11/2004 at 11:39 PM.
  17. pabo's Avatar
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    #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by JTREOB
    What the hell are you talking about? Do you know? You've worked with MX subsidiaries? Do you mean US subsidiaries in Mexico? There is a difference.
    I guess it really does matter what the definition of is is, right. Stop playing semantics - read it anywat you want.....


    Quote Originally Posted by JTREOB
    As for productitvity being higher in the US that would no doubt be per worker and not per dollar spent.
    Now I see that you do NOT know what you are talking about - as the vast majority of these sites in MX are manufacturing, it doesn't matter what your dollar for dollar productivity is if you can't meet shipping commitments in a highly integrated supply chain - because you do now these are not stand-alone sites/companies. And if you can't get the required quality, all the rest is pointless. Of course this is not in every facility, but generally the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by JTREOB
    As for the fact that no one was hiring 18 months ago, let me refine that for you. There was no net hiring 9 months to 40 months ago. All under that solid Bush jobs record.
    The Kerry Kool-Aid must be mighty tasty - let's see 40 months ago puts us around the point where people finally admitted to the recession, and 3 months after 9/11. You're not actually trying to sat that Bush had more of an impact on the jobs picture than 9/11 did, are you ? If so, alll I can say is that you've been completely assimilated......... hurry back, there's another set of talking points on your fax machine.....
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    good point, just like previous courts supported prohibition and the ownership of slaves...... game, set, match.

    It's so funny how you bobble heads just spit back all you've heard from Rush and Sean Hannity and all the while insist that others are delusional.

    Must be too much of that "Hillbilly Heroin!"
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikegold
    It's so funny how you bobble heads just spit back all you've heard from Rush and Sean Hannity and all the while insist that others are delusional.

    Must be too much of that "Hillbilly Heroin!"
    Odd. I listen to NEITHER Rush nor Hannity.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    by boring, I meant the dem talking point argument.
    Perhaps boredom is rooted in your aloof thinking, man. Everything you believe in must not be boring. Democrats, therefore, bore you. Nuff said.

    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    whether or not there were WMDs, EVERYONE thought they were there - even Blix, although he is conveniently changing his story.
    Indeed everyone thought WMDs were in Iraq because prez Bush and staff took pain in convincing us they were. And we all fell for it. (Blix is not my president, BTW.)

    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    did you read the SC decision - I have. the problem is that the FL SC was so out of control and unfounded in their actions that they (SC) called a stop to their actions (FL SC). contrary to the oversimplified view, the SC did not appoint anyone.
    Of course Florida’s Supreme Court was out of control: You disagree with their decision (see point #1 above). And please read my lips: The US Supreme Court has elected Bush to office. (Certainly the 500,000 more-voters-for-Gore didn’t.) Any philosophical innuendos about the US SC not electing presidents are silly at best. And, spare me from “oversimplifying” things for you: The US SC did NOT unanimously agree that Florida’s SC was out of order.

    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    finally, get the facts on the abuse issue - the US started the investigation MONTHS ago - literally days after the whistle was blown. just cause a couple senators had the undies in a knot over not having been informed (by rumsfeld, because they were actually informed by others) does not mean the issue was a presidential conspiracy.
    What don’t you get? It is not about when the investigation started. It is about keeping the public in the dark. We were kept in the dark regarding WMDs (lack of), and we were kept in the dark about abusing prisoners both in Afghanistan and Iraq. The fish stinks from its head.
    I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.
    -Sir Winston Churchill.

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