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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by heberman
    Kerry actually bought 4 Treo 600's. No, he doesn't own a Treo 600 - he doesn't believe in them - those 4 Treos all belong to his family. Wait - he used to have one, but he threw it over the fence.

    Makes sense to me.
    Are they on the ground next to the beer bottles Bush threw there when he was doing (or not) his hazardous duty in Alabama?
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrjoec
    And, by the way, GO FLYERS!
    Nice one.

    It seems perception often means more than reality in politics. Gore tried to show Bush is stupid. Bush is now trying (fairly successfully) to show that Kerry is a flip flopper. Kerry is trying to show Bush skipped out on Vietnam.

    Dan Quayle - he said stupid things.
    Ronald Regan - cowboy
    Bill Clinton - ok, I won't go there
    Al Gore - internet inventing, self promotion
    Nixon - liar
    Carter - asking his young daughter for policy advice

    blah, blah, blah, so the proud US political tradition continues.
    Palm V-->Visor Deluxe-->Visor Prism-->Visorphone-->Treo 180-->Treo 600-->Treo 650 on Sprint-->Treo 700p-->Centro-->Diamond-->Pre-->HTC EVO 4g???!
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    ... Let's look forward - unfortunately, too many folks are so wrapped up in what happened 3 years ago...that they have let 3 years of their life slip by with nothing to show for it but ravenous hatred of the President. It's unhealthy, disrespectful and unproductive.

    paul

    As opposed to the right wing fanatics who spent the eight years of the Clinton administration in healthy, respectful, productive uses of their time.
  4. pabo's Avatar
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    #104  
    nice try - let's call it like it is.

    personally, I couldn't care less how Clinton spends his free time. I never looked at him as a role model, nor would I suggest anyone do so (for an example of a family man at least). Had he simply told the truth, and chose a better venue to screw around, ie in the pool room as opposed to the oval office while discussing troop movements in Kosovo, few if any people would really care but those extremists and it would have been a dead issue.

    Fact - he lied directly to the American people, he lied to those close friends who were taking heat for him and he lied under oath. I don't care what he lied about, I do care that he exhibited an irrefutable pattern of deceit. BTW - he was disbarred by his peers (so much for it not being a big deal).

    He and his wife continue to blame everybody else for this problem, when in fact, he created it, kept it alive, and must now pay whatever price that "is" attached to it.

    Likewise, had JK simply explained that when he returned from Viet Nam, he felt compelled to make a bold statment, therefore throwing symbols of his time back..... end of story. "in hindsight, I might have handled it differently, and I have learned a lot from it - case closed". Which, by the way, is what I believe is the real truth to this story.

    Sometimes, honesty is the best policy.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    Uh, ok...... 600K new jobs in 2 months, 1MM since last August. If you are pretending that the site you provided is factual, I can only tell you there is no "science" less factual than economics. And the partisan presentation of data on that website should not be misconstrued as factual.

    My numbers are from the BLS. They are the benchmark folks use. If I wanted to reach a little, I would give you the real job creation numbers that are far larger than those generally reported by the BLS. Manufacturing is back stronger than it has been in about 5 years (I've seen it first hand). As for ripping the budget apart - you've got to learn to be a little less excitable. Remember that 9/11 thing, the job losses associated with it (in airlines only) the airline bailout (unanticipated), etc, etc, etc - those are the budget breakers........

    Relax, enjoy life, admit things are getting better (generally speaking) - unless of course if you choice of political party will suffer in the face of good news just prior to a mjor election. If that is the case, I can't help you.............
    Bush the budget breaker. Even his own neo conservatives admit that. Not one vetoed spending bill. Not one.

    As for the job data, the numbers refrenced are from the same source Bush and administrations before him have used. The difference is the source noted has taken the time to dig a little deeper. There is no misinterpretation there. Nice try, but anyone who suggests that the creation of jobs under the Bush administration has been a success isn't paying attention.
    Last edited by JTREOB; 05/11/2004 at 01:06 PM.
  6. pabo's Avatar
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    #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by JTREOB
    Nice try, but anyone who suggests that the creation of jobs under the Bush administration has been a success isn't paying attention.
    Give it a rest - you just keep chanting the same theme over and over.

    Ok, your right, even though I have visited over 200 manufacturing sites in the US over that last 5 years and have PERSONALLY seen in the last 9 months:

    -significant improvement in hiring and more importantly spending on improvements
    -have seen rust belt plants beating the pants off brand new facilities in Juarez MX as far as productivity improvement
    -have seen significant business growth everywhere, ie manufacturers and service providers
    -have seen 10% or more new hires in the 3 companies I am directly involved with

    I am just kidding myself, it was all a dream, a figment of my imagination.

    Prediction - the ecomony continues to expand between now and next year, terrorists make another strike directly at the US and the economy continues to expand (because the terrorists fail to realize that true growh comes from the human spirit of desire for a better life for one's self and those around us) (and yes, that is probably why so many come from south of the border and choose to send their cash back home to feed the family) and Bush will be re-elected by a large margin.

    Store this one away and we can talk about it again next year - otherwise, this conversation is like trying to teach a pig to sing - it only frustrates you and annoys the pig (I'm pretty certain you feel the same way).
  7. mlarsen23's Avatar
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    #107  
    Bush: Record setting deficits our children will be forced to pay off.

    Democratic Alternative: Reduced deficit through program of higher taxes (modest increases on wealthy) and reduced spending (willingness to use the veto.)

    Bush: Radical misjudgement about aftermath of expensive war against a country with no weapons of mass destruction or ties to terrorism. Ultimately leads to prisoner abuse and inflamed passions of Islamic terrorists worldwide.

    Democratic Alternative: A President who is not loathed worldwide to lead international solution allowing US to admit prior administration's mistakes and get out.

    Bush: Stubborn disbelief in global warming despite near universal scientific opinion to the contrary. Support of policies enriching oil industry cronies despite dangers of climate change.

    Democratic Alternative: Common sense environmental policies that mean small economic sacrifices now but preserve the environment for our children.

    Bush: 40 million uninsured and per capita health care costs nearly twice those of comparable industrialized nations, despite no measurable superior health outcomes.

    Democratic Alternative: Increased access to health care for the uninsured, helping to reduce overall costs of health care caused when uninsured let diseases fester until critical and then use (expensive) emergency room.

    Bush: Desire to use the courts if possible to curtail abortion rights that the majority of Americans support.

    Democratic Alternative: Freedom to have abortions.

    Bush: Notion of separation of church and state trampled on as fundamentally religious definition of marriage is imposed on country (in complete absence of any evidence that gay marriage causes anyone any harm.)

    Democratic Alternative: Let the states make their own decisions about gay marriage, and let these "laboratories of democracy" discover its impact.
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by pabo

    Sometimes, honesty is the best policy.

    Can you call the White House and give them this advice?


    Bush and Cheney couldn't lie under oath because they refused to publicly, testify under oath.

    They would not PROMISE to tell the TRUTH!

    Why won't Bush just admit that he was a draft dodger? Why won't he produce ALL of his National Guard records? What were the "other priorities" that prevented **** Cheney from serving his country?

    ....President Clinton lied about a blow job. What about the waste of taxpayer money on Whitewater? The Vince Foster nonsense, the uproar over Hillary's Health Care Plan meetings (funny how it's now ok that Cheney holds secret meetings and hides behind executive privilege.)
    Last edited by mikegold; 05/11/2004 at 02:31 PM. Reason: additional information
  9. #109  
    loser
  10. #110  
    What do you call George Bush on November 3, 2004?



    Quote Originally Posted by quake8
    loser
  11. #111  
    Dear God...please stop. blah, blah, blah....attempted humor...blah, blah, blah....

    Why do i keep checking this thread - apparently the problem is mine. As you were, I'm out.
  12. pabo's Avatar
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    #112  
    holy crap - take another sip of cool-aide, it's hot out.

    mlarsen - a little more taxes on the "rich" - great idea. Can we start with you voluntarily sending a larger chunk of your paycheck to support those initiatives of which you are so fond ??? I'm a little short as I already contribute over 40% of my income to taxes (not a millionairre either).

    mikegold - come on. you want to give executive privelege to the first lady. BTW, I'm pissed Bush and Cheney even went before this sham committee, ie Gorelick doesn't have the integrity to resign and testify with respect to the "wall" memo - and while ther is, in dfact, NO separation of church and state in the Constitution (read it and cite the paragraph) ther IS a separation of powers, ie, Execituve does not answer to the Legislative branch.

    I am all for accountability. The US Congress, who holds the purse strings, was controlled for 40 years by the dems. When it went over to the repubs, we got a balanced budget. What am I missing.

    Take you best shot in a response, because I've grown tired of listening to you guys reading from the dem talking points.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by mlarsen23
    Bush: Record setting deficits our children will be forced to pay off.
    Do they come to the door and hold a gun to your kid's head and take his allowance? Who are 'they'? Please explain the procedure for children paying off the deficit. I don't think it will work because of child labor laws. Now maybe if we hire some kids making Nike's in Aisa to do it you might be on to something.

    Democratic Alternative: Reduced deficit through program of higher taxes (modest increases on wealthy) and reduced spending (willingness to use the veto.)
    Reduced spending on what? Defense? Cause we know spending will go WAY up on social programs. Oh but thats ok huh? If I dont use the program I dont want to pay for it. Let the freeloaders take care of them selves, or you can suort them with all your generosity.

    Bush: Radical misjudgement about aftermath of expensive war against a country with no weapons of mass destruction or ties to terrorism. Ultimately leads to prisoner abuse and inflamed passions of Islamic terrorists worldwide.
    The war lead to prisoner abuse? Well indirectly maybe, but find a nation in wartaime that didn't abuse prisoners. That humans, and has nothing to do with where your from. Also the islamic terrorists have been rowdy for awhile now. Going to Iraq didnt get them going.

    Democratic Alternative: A President who is not loathed worldwide to lead international solution allowing US to admit prior administration's mistakes and get out.
    The international solution did nothing for 12 years in Iraq, but wander around looking for WMD. And if they werent there why did they keep looking for so long?

    Bush: Stubborn disbelief in global warming despite near universal scientific opinion to the contrary. Support of policies enriching oil industry cronies despite dangers of climate change.
    Universal? So all the scietists in the world agree that global warming is an issue? Too convenient, don't buy it.

    Democratic Alternative: Common sense environmental policies that mean small economic sacrifices now but preserve the environment for our children.
    The children thing again. Please specify 'small economic sacrifices'.

    Bush: 40 million uninsured and per capita health care costs nearly twice those of comparable industrialized nations, despite no measurable superior health outcomes. No measurable superior outcomes?
    Why then do thousands come to the US for healthcare from other countries? Cause we suck? Ever gotten medical treatment in Canada or GB. You could die waiting for an appointment.

    Democratic Alternative: Increased access to health care for the uninsured, helping to reduce overall costs of health care caused when uninsured let diseases fester until critical and then use (expensive) emergency room.
    Who pays for this? Must be the higher taxes you were talking about. Pay for your own medical and you'll take better care of yourself and do as much as you can to avoid having to go to the doctor.

    Bush: Desire to use the courts if possible to curtail abortion rights that the majority of Americans support.
    As a father I'd say abortion sucks. Can't imagine doing it.

    Democratic Alternative: Freedom to have abortions.
    Why not pay attention to WTF your doing and avoid getting pregnant in the first place. It's not that hard to do.

    Bush: Notion of separation of church and state trampled on as fundamentally religious definition of marriage is imposed on country (in complete absence of any evidence that gay marriage causes anyone any harm.)
    Church and state. Do any of you lefties know what it says? The governement will not establish a state religion. That means the goverment cant say "Ok you're all Baptists now or we'll lock you up". It doesnt mean that there can be religious references in everyday life. I mean how many religions are there in this country? Do you want wipe them all out? That's sounds more like establishing a non religious state, non religious meaning religion doesnt exist. Besides the B of R says 'freedom of religion' not from it.

    Democratic Alternative: Let the states make their own decisions about gay marriage, and let these "laboratories of democracy" discover its impact.
    Marriage is the union of a man and a woman. Gays and lesbians can have all the same rights afforded by marriage, with a legal contract. Why would they want something that is by definition closed to them? It makes me think of two lesbians having sex and always using a strap on. If you need the phallic device to enjoy sex why be a lesbian, just get a man? If you want a 'marriage' get a opposite sex partner. If you dont like the opposite sex, then form a legal partnership/union. It's all semantics anyway.

    It's really funny to me how some folks think the other party has all the answers. Somehow Bush has been wrong on everything and the 'Democratic Alternativ'e' would always be better. You have to be really naive to believe one side will always have the better answer. You're drinking the koolaid and not thinking for yourself.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  14. pabo's Avatar
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    #114  
    smokin' bump....
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    #115  
    that means good job, right - I'm a little out of the loop....
  16. #116  
    So which apps do you think Al has added to his treo? Maybe he can recommend a case? I am getting tired of the one that came with the phone.
  17. #117  
    I like the one that came with the phone. You must be a democrat!
  18. #118  
    Do you have one of those "dittohead" t-shirts also?

    You're right, the First Amendment does not literally say "separation of church and state." Intelligent minds, like those who have served on the Supreme Court, have interpreted it as it applies to real life situations.

    The Fifteenth Amendment states that the government cannot deny the right to vote based on race, color or previous condition of servitude. The Nineteenth Amendment guarantees the right to vote regardless of gender. No where does it state that the government can't deny you the right to vote based on religion! By your logic that means we can ban all Baptists from voting if we so desire.

    Try to expand your knowledge beyond the utter nonsense fed to you by Rush "The Addict" Limbaugh.

    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    holy crap - take another sip of cool-aide, it's hot out.

    mlarsen - a little more taxes on the "rich" - great idea. Can we start with you voluntarily sending a larger chunk of your paycheck to support those initiatives of which you are so fond ??? I'm a little short as I already contribute over 40% of my income to taxes (not a millionairre either).

    mikegold - come on. you want to give executive privelege to the first lady. BTW, I'm pissed Bush and Cheney even went before this sham committee, ie Gorelick doesn't have the integrity to resign and testify with respect to the "wall" memo - and while ther is, in dfact, NO separation of church and state in the Constitution (read it and cite the paragraph) ther IS a separation of powers, ie, Execituve does not answer to the Legislative branch.

    I am all for accountability. The US Congress, who holds the purse strings, was controlled for 40 years by the dems. When it went over to the repubs, we got a balanced budget. What am I missing.

    Take you best shot in a response, because I've grown tired of listening to you guys reading from the dem talking points.
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by 03Range
    He should buy millions of dollars worth of stock in Heinz Ketchup Co. which happens to have 60 headquarters overseas and then blast "benedict arnold C.E.O.'s" for moving their companies offshores to take advantage of cheaper labor. Hey, it works for John Kerry!
    Hey - I'm ALL FOR THAT! Outsourcing may be my number one concern this election. So I listened intently to Kerry about what he's going to do about it. But guess what? It's effectively nothing. His plan is to simply cut tax breaks for corporations who outsource - that's it. Don't get me wrong. I totally agree with cutting tax breaks for companies who outsource jobs out of the U.S. but doing that alone is not going to make ANY difference at all. I know because I work at one of the companies who outsources and I know their mentality. They're just going to say, "Less tax breaks, uh? That's okay we'll just make up the difference by outsourcing more jobs." If you're seriously going to try to stop outsourcing and bring jobs back you're going to have to do a hell of a lot more than that. Some of Kerry's own economic advisors even came out and said that it would not make a difference.

    Kerry came out and went as far to say that he DOES NOT FAVOR any kind of protectionism of American jobs because he views protectionism as bad. I was really disappointed to hear him say that because if he would take it those "Benedict Arnold" companies then I would vote for him - or anyone else for that matter.

    What I learned from this is that the bottomline is that Democrats get just as much campaign contributions from Benedict Arnold companies as Republicans do and can't jeopardize their $$$ by sounding too anti-business.

    It's obvious to me that Kerry's plan is just enough to fool some Americans into thinking that he's going to stop outsourcing, but so little that companies will know that it will not affect their outsourcing strategies and still support him financially. It's like Kerry his saying, "I'll put an end to it.", while winking at Bill Gates from the corner of his eye.

    The only candidate who is really bashing outsourcing and determined to stop it all costs is Nader - but we know he doesn't stand a chance so there's little use of voting for him. I think this is a big tactical mistake for Kerry. Outsourcing was an issue Kerry could've won moderates like myself with but he's turned into a non-issue with his almost-as-weak-as-Bush stance on it.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
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    #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Do they come to the door and hold a gun to your kid's head and take his allowance? Who are 'they'? Please explain the procedure for children paying off the deficit. I don't think it will work because of child labor laws. Now maybe if we hire some kids making Nike's in Aisa to do it you might be on to something.

    Interest on the debt caused by the deficit will accumulate -- eventually we'll have to raise taxes just to cover the interest on the debt and the programs even conservatives will be unwilling to eliminate. By then it will be our children who are paying taxes.

    Reduced spending on what? Defense? Cause we know spending will go WAY up on social programs. Oh but thats ok huh? If I dont use the program I dont want to pay for it. Let the freeloaders take care of them selves, or you can suort them with all your generosity.

    Reduced spending on the many pork barrel projects that have been passed by republican congressmen over the last few years.

    For examples:

    http://www.boston.com/news/globe/edi..._big_spenders/

    The war lead to prisoner abuse? Well indirectly maybe, but find a nation in wartaime that didn't abuse prisoners. That humans, and has nothing to do with where your from. Also the islamic terrorists have been rowdy for awhile now. Going to Iraq didnt get them going.

    Iraq didn't get them going -- it just made them more determined. And you're right, abuse can pretty much be expected. Which makes the Bush admin. seem even more incompetent for not doing more to prevent it, especially after it was repeatedly reported by the Red Cross over the last year.

    The international solution did nothing for 12 years in Iraq, but wander around looking for WMD. And if they werent there why did they keep looking for so long?

    For the last 12 years, Iraq didn't attack another country, or build weapons of mass destruction. I don't know why, but one reason could be that they knew that international inspectors were looking for them.

    Universal? So all the scietists in the world agree that global warming is an issue? Too convenient, don't buy it.

    I said nearly universal. You can always find someone who will say anything. But there is a broad scientific consensus that global warming is an issue, despite the Bush administration's efforts to deny it.

    See
    http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environ...fm?pageID=1363

    If we accept it's an issue, then to solve the problem we will probably have to make sacrifices - like paying more expensive cars and energy. Or, conserving energy. If we don't, we will continue to contribute to climate change, with unknown, but potentially very scary results. But we'll probably be dead or close to dead by the time those results occur. Our children won't.

    The children thing again. Please specify 'small economic sacrifices'.

    Why then do thousands come to the US for healthcare from other countries? Cause we suck? Ever gotten medical treatment in Canada or GB. You could die waiting for an appointment.

    We certainly have the most technologically advanced medicine, and often have treatments that aren't available in every country, even highly industrialized ones. So it's no surprise that people from other countries come to the US for treatment. Canada and Great Britain ration their health care by making everyone have to wait longer than they'd like. In the US, we ration our health care by making people who don't have health insurance wait until they are too sick to wait anymore. Then they go to the emergency room where they are given expensive treatment that they can't pay for, and probably cost us all more money than if they got preventative treatment early on.

    Who pays for this? Must be the higher taxes you were talking about. Pay for your own medical and you'll take better care of yourself and do as much as you can to avoid having to go to the doctor.

    You'll also go bankrupt if you are unlucky enough to get hit by something like cancer.


    As a father I'd say abortion sucks. Can't imagine doing it.

    Why not pay attention to WTF your doing and avoid getting pregnant in the first place. It's not that hard to do.

    I'll be willing to bend on the abortion issue when conservatives admit that some people aren't going to stay abstinent and therefore there should be education about contraceptives in school, and when conservatives support funding programs (such as foster care, education, and the like) that ensures that unwanted children will have a lot better chances than they have now.

    Church and state. Do any of you lefties know what it says? The governement will not establish a state religion. That means the goverment cant say "Ok you're all Baptists now or we'll lock you up". It doesnt mean that there can be religious references in everyday life. I mean how many religions are there in this country? Do you want wipe them all out? That's sounds more like establishing a non religious state, non religious meaning religion doesnt exist. Besides the B of R says 'freedom of religion' not from it.

    Marriage is the union of a man and a woman. Gays and lesbians can have all the same rights afforded by marriage, with a legal contract.

    No they can't. Federal and state governments offer various legal protections and benefits (and disadvantages) that can't be replicated by contract. These are rights that cover medical emergencies, taxes, insurance, inheritance, burial decisions and such trivialities as frequent-flier programs. Most of them cannot be replicated by contract.

    Why would they want something that is by definition closed to them?

    Marriage is what the state defines it as. It used to be that marriage between races didn't count either. Sweden and other countries in Europe have already defined it to allow gay marriages. The US could do it too. Who exactly is harmed by gay marriage?

    It makes me think of two lesbians having sex and always using a strap on. If you need the phallic device to enjoy sex why be a lesbian, just get a man? If you want a 'marriage' get a opposite sex partner. If you dont like the opposite sex, then form a legal partnership/union. It's all semantics anyway.



    It's really funny to me how some folks think the other party has all the answers. Somehow Bush has been wrong on everything and the 'Democratic Alternativ'e' would always be better. You have to be really naive to believe one side will always have the better answer. You're drinking the koolaid and not thinking for yourself.
    I don't think the Democrats have all the answers. Nor do I think Bush has been wrong on everything. But I do feel strongly that the Democrats are on the right side of many more of the issues. I also feel very strongly Bush is really screwing up on several major issues -- the deficit, healthcare, and the war. Right now, democrats are the only real alternative.
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