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  1. #81  
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  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    It's not possible to be worse off? OK sure. Take that bag off your head! It's affecting your ability to think. Things could be alot worse.

    If this is the worst it can get I'd say we are doing pretty well.
    We are doing pretty well? I quess that would depend on your expectations, Woofy. You certainly are justified in having such low expectations, but there's little doubt the guy calling the shots needs to be fired. The current level of mismanagement is unprecedented.





    I
    Last edited by JTREOB; 05/10/2004 at 08:56 PM.
  3. pabo's Avatar
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    #83  
    Francisco - let it go. It is unhealthy to be carrying this anguish for this long. In case you missed it, GWB has been at 1600 PA Ave for a few years now and, IMO, doing well. Let's look forward - unfortunately, too many folks are so wrapped up in what happened 3 years ago (that Bush WINS thing) that they have let 3 years of their life slip by with nothing to show for it but ravenous hatred of the President. It's unhealthy, disrespectful and unproductive.

    Fortunately, news that Al Gore carries a Treo gives proof that EVERYONE has at least one redeeming quality.......{deep sigh}

    paul
  4. pabo's Avatar
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    #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by JTREOB
    The current level of mismanagement of this country is unprecedented.

    600k new jobs in 2 months. Almost 1MM new jobs since last Aug. You've obviously misunderestimated him.
  5. #85  
    why the heck hasn't this thread been locked yet?
  6. #86  
    [QUOTE=pabo]600k new jobs in 2 months. Almost 1MM new jobs since last Aug. You've obviously misunderestimated him.[/QUOTE

    May I suggest you read www.jobwatch.org before getting too enthusiastic. As I stated earlier, total mismanagement.
    Last edited by JTREOB; 05/10/2004 at 09:40 PM.
  7. pabo's Avatar
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    #87  
    be a little more specific. I can go site for site with you on the conservative side of the ledger. Just because you found a progressive (translation, liberal) think tank that wants to put their spin on job growth does not mean this is a valid reference. Explain mismanagement, and also explain if Clinton/Gore were mismanaging the country as we slipped into a recession prior to the end of their last term ??
  8.    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by heberman
    Months or years later, I may end up adopting the contrary idea as my own viewpoint. If the ideas are good, they seem to stick with me. IF they're bad, they don't.

    I think very differently about certain political and religious ideas than I did several years ago, and my thinking is still slooowly changing as I gain more experience.

    By the way, Go Bush!
    So there is a chance that, in 10 or 20 years, you will eventually see the Bush administration in a more realistic light? Cool, looking forward to it.

    By the way, I would also be glad if Bush would finally go.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by pabo
    be a little more specific. I can go site for site with you on the conservative side of the ledger. Just because you found a progressive (translation, liberal) think tank that wants to put their spin on job growth does not mean this is a valid reference. Explain mismanagement, and also explain if Clinton/Gore were mismanaging the country as we slipped into a recession prior to the end of their last term ??
    Try to stay on point. You brought up job numbers now defend them against the FACTS. If you care to present information that would dispute those numbers, by all means.

    When one considers the anemic jobs numbers in light of massive tax cuts, which have ripped the budget apart, and a fed funds rate at an all time low, there's little else to call it except mismanagement. The fact is, the economic environment for job creation could not have been better since July 03. Bush's own forecasts admit as much, and yet the results are 2 millon jobs under HIS OWN forecasts in just 10 months. There is no reasonable arguement that can defend Bush's job record.
  10. #90  
    U.S. April Payrolls Rise 288,000; Jobless Rate Falls (Update2)
    May 7 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. companies added 288,000 workers to payrolls in April, exceeding the highest forecast, and the unemployment rate fell to 5.6 percent. Jobs were added in manufacturing, construction and temporary help services.

    The increase follows a revised gain of 337,000 jobs in March that was larger than estimated last month, the Labor Department reported in Washington. Manufacturers added jobs for a third straight month, after revisions to February and March.

    Payroll gains are chipping away at the number of jobs lost during President George W. Bush's term and may help him deflect criticism from Democratic challenger John Kerry. The report sent the yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury bond to its highest in almost two years as investors saw the job gains encouraging the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates as soon as next month.

    ``A couple more months like this and they will begin to normalize interest rates,'' said Steven Wieting, an economist at Citigroup Global Markets Inc. in New York. ``You are seeing a very strong breadth of employment gains. This is a very desirable outcome. It should be celebrated.'' Citigroup economists had forecast payrolls would rise by 250,000, matching the highest of those surveyed.

    Economists expected payrolls would rise by 170,000 last month following a previously reported increase of 308,000 in March, according to the median of 75 forecasts in a Bloomberg News survey. The highest estimate was a 250,000 increase. They projected the unemployment rate would hold at 5.7 percent.

    In the last eight months, the economy has produced 1.113 million jobs. So far this year, job gains averaged 217,000 a month, more than enough to absorb new entrants into the labor force. Economists estimate that it takes gains from 125,000 to 150,000 to accommodate growth in the labor force.
    The Treasury's 4 percent note maturing in February 2014 fell more than a point, pushing up the yield 13 basis points to 4.73 percent, at 9:35 a.m. Earlier, the yield touched 4.76 percent, the highest since July 2002.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by 03Range
    U.S. April Payrolls Rise 288,000; Jobless Rate Falls (Update2)
    May 7 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. companies added 288,000 workers to payrolls in April, exceeding the highest forecast, and the unemployment rate fell to 5.6 percent. Jobs were added in manufacturing, construction and temporary help services.

    The increase follows a revised gain of 337,000 jobs in March that was larger than estimated last month, the Labor Department reported in Washington. Manufacturers added jobs for a third straight month, after revisions to February and March.

    Payroll gains are chipping away at the number of jobs lost during President George W. Bush's term and may help him deflect criticism from Democratic challenger John Kerry. The report sent the yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury bond to its highest in almost two years as investors saw the job gains encouraging the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates as soon as next month.

    ``A couple more months like this and they will begin to normalize interest rates,'' said Steven Wieting, an economist at Citigroup Global Markets Inc. in New York. ``You are seeing a very strong breadth of employment gains. This is a very desirable outcome. It should be celebrated.'' Citigroup economists had forecast payrolls would rise by 250,000, matching the highest of those surveyed.

    Economists expected payrolls would rise by 170,000 last month following a previously reported increase of 308,000 in March, according to the median of 75 forecasts in a Bloomberg News survey. The highest estimate was a 250,000 increase. They projected the unemployment rate would hold at 5.7 percent.

    In the last eight months, the economy has produced 1.113 million jobs. So far this year, job gains averaged 217,000 a month, more than enough to absorb new entrants into the labor force. Economists estimate that it takes gains from 125,000 to 150,000 to accommodate growth in the labor force.
    The Treasury's 4 percent note maturing in February 2014 fell more than a point, pushing up the yield 13 basis points to 4.73 percent, at 9:35 a.m. Earlier, the yield touched 4.76 percent, the highest since July 2002.
    2 millon + jobs under their own forecast in 10 months. . 1.6 millon jobs loss since the Bushies took office, and when you throw new job entrants into the picture, we are over 5 millon jobs short or what's needed just to stay even. this has had an enormous affect on wages and benefits in the work place, as well. wake up!
  12. #92  
    Geez, where are you getting your info??? The Bush administration stated 2 million new jobs by November '04 as their target number back in January of this year.

    www.reuters.com/news/us/bushjobsjan.htm

    We are already more than halfway there. Prior to that announcement, they conceded that it would take time for the tax cuts to proliferate through the economy and offered no concrete projection for the upcoming year until additional data was available.

    http://www.cbsmarketwatch.com/worldn...jobs234523.htm

    Face it, the tax cuts are working far better than anyone could have imagined. Manufacturing activity has surged to its fastest pace since 1984, inflation is still only hovering around 2.5%, all the while interest rates are at their 46-year lows. Our economy is having its cake and eating it too! GWB has successfully supported free-enterprise to the extent that you and I know how better to spend our $$ and can at the same time be far more generous to those in need than the government ever would be which therefore helped our economy recover from the recession that he inherited when he took office.. I can cite my sources....can you???
    Last edited by 03Range; 05/11/2004 at 09:39 AM.
  13. pabo's Avatar
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    #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by JTREOB
    Try to stay on point. You brought up job numbers now defend them against the FACTS.

    Uh, ok...... 600K new jobs in 2 months, 1MM since last August. If you are pretending that the site you provided is factual, I can only tell you there is no "science" less factual than economics. And the partisan presentation of data on that website should not be misconstrued as factual.

    My numbers are from the BLS. They are the benchmark folks use. If I wanted to reach a little, I would give you the real job creation numbers that are far larger than those generally reported by the BLS. Manufacturing is back stronger than it has been in about 5 years (I've seen it first hand). As for ripping the budget apart - you've got to learn to be a little less excitable. Remember that 9/11 thing, the job losses associated with it (in airlines only) the airline bailout (unanticipated), etc, etc, etc - those are the budget breakers........

    Relax, enjoy life, admit things are getting better (generally speaking) - unless of course if you choice of political party will suffer in the face of good news just prior to a mjor election. If that is the case, I can't help you.............
  14. pabo's Avatar
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    #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by 03Range
    GWB has successfully helped our economy recover from the recession that he inherited when he took office.
    Can I argue slightly with someone who obviously has the same favorable view of GWB as I do ........

    Change your quote to "GWB has successfully supported free-enterprise to the extent that you and I know how better to spend our $$ and can at the same time be far more generous to those in need than the government ever would be which therefore helped our economy recover from the recession that he inherited when he took office.
  15. #95  
    I think that in general, most Presidents get too much credit when an economy is doing and well and too much blame when it is doing bad. For example, was Hoover to blame for the Great Depression? Did he cause the stock market to crash? Was Carter to blame for OPEC? Most of the time the economy has more to do with the natural business cycle than anything else and most economists disapprove of Federal tinkering. The only president I can really attest to spurring the economy in my lifetime is Reagan because he began an arms race with the Soviet Union that spurred jobs in the private sector and also expanded the Armed Forces creating jobs and putting GI's through college which led to more jobs after they left the Armed Forces. The only other president I know who directly spurred the economy was FDR when he created jobs by creating federal projects to work on highways and other such things. Both presidents actions resulted in job creations but also spurred heavy increases in Federal spending. I don't where FDR got the money but Reagan created a deficit. FDR also came under fire from many even in his own party for purportedly violating the Constitution which many believe does not grant the Federal government the power to create such agencies and programs. The Supreme Court even struck down some of his programs.

    I read a lot of people here blaming Bush for the economy but I have yet to hear ANYONE suggest what it is he should do to fix it. Would someone please tell me what it is he should do? Because if you can't tell me what it is he should be doing then you're not qualified to say he's mismanaging the economy. Should he seize companies like a Communist govt and force them to start hiring people? Please, just one idea to create jobs.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  16. #96  
    WHY IS THIS THREAD EVEN HERE????

    Moderators are quick to lock down a thread if we "question" the tactics of someone that is trying to sell a product, but this rhetoric can continue ad-nauseum???



    -Joe
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    #97  
    i was actually having a little fun. This thread goes to prove that the Treo is popular across a pretty broad spectrum........
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    I think that in general, most Presidents get too much credit when an economy is doing and well and too much blame when it is doing bad. For example, was Hoover to blame for the Great Depression? Did he cause the stock market to crash? Was Carter to blame for OPEC? Most of the time the economy has more to do with the natural business cycle than anything else and most economists disapprove of Federal tinkering. The only president I can really attest to spurring the economy in my lifetime is Reagan because he began an arms race with the Soviet Union that spurred jobs in the private sector and also expanded the Armed Forces creating jobs and putting GI's through college which led to more jobs after they left the Armed Forces. The only other president I know who directly spurred the economy was FDR when he created jobs by creating federal projects to work on highways and other such things. Both presidents actions resulted in job creations but also spurred heavy increases in Federal spending. I don't where FDR got the money but Reagan created a deficit. FDR also came under fire from many even in his own party for purportedly violating the Constitution which many believe does not grant the Federal government the power to create such agencies and programs. The Supreme Court even struck down some of his programs.

    I read a lot of people here blaming Bush for the economy but I have yet to hear ANYONE suggest what it is he should do to fix it. Would someone please tell me what it is he should do? Because if you can't tell me what it is he should be doing then you're not qualified to say he's mismanaging the economy. Should he seize companies like a Communist govt and force them to start hiring people? Please, just one idea to create jobs.
    He should buy millions of dollars worth of stock in Heinz Ketchup Co. which happens to have 60 headquarters overseas and then blast "benedict arnold C.E.O.'s" for moving their companies offshores to take advantage of cheaper labor. Hey, it works for John Kerry!
  19. #99  
    **** Cheney

    before he dicks you
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    #100  
    You know, I have to wholeheartedly agree with you here. I always felt that Clinton got too much credit for the great economy he presided over, and I remember saying time and time again during the 2000 elections that whoever won would get wrongfully blamed for the bad economy that was about to happen. These things cycle, and while the government has some influence, certainly (controlling inflation with lower interest rates, various tax proposals, etc.) these are mostly measures to put out fires or jumpstart weak sectors. Sometimes they have a slight negative effect. Sometimes a slight positive. But by and large, administrations react to the economy more often than they control it.

    And, by the way, GO FLYERS!
    mrjoec
    www.joecieplinski.com
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