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  1. #61  
    Guys Guys Guys...I just got suckered into this one also....

    My two bits...or cents...whatever....

    First thing, great that high profile people use the Treo...sure Nokia said the same thing when it was picked for the phone on Matrix...its good publicity for Palmone.

    However, on the Gore/Bush result, it seems everyone outside of Texas thinks it should have gone the other way! On what has Bush done whilst in office, apart from alienate more the two thirds of the globe...well maybe some Democrat Presidents would have done the same if they were surrounded by the same daft Un-Intelligence agencies...who knows.

    However, one thing you guys have gotta understand...noone denies that a lot of IT was invented in the states...however most IT inventions were conceived in the UK dunno maybe its cuase we got the brains or something...who knows...!!

    Also...this thing about Taxes and stuff is all irrelevant now....the abuses and the stories emerging out of the middle east..is not based on Intelligence....or some kids university paper...it is FACT. Look what the western world did when it had very vague facts....what sort of response to do you think we should be gearing ourselves up for....at the end of the day from the people who have been victims of invasion....I shudder to think.

    Lets use our Treos to bring about world peace.......give them to Sharon, Arafat, Bush and get them to send each other picture messages.....

    Anon.


    (I know I know...you all know its me Adzo...!!)
  2. #62  
    WOOF:I am entitled to my opinion and watching Gore over the last 20 years, I think these things would have been different. [/QUOTE]

    Different? For sure. Worse off? Not possible.
    Last edited by JTREOB; 05/09/2004 at 09:48 PM.
  3.    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by WildCard
    funny that no one has pointed out yet that Al Gore had to leave his home country and travel across the globe to find a crowd interested in what he has to say.

    -WC-
    At least Gore was invited. Think of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, the rest of the gang after their time in the White House: Can you imagine ANY country or organisation outside of the US that would actually invite one of them, apart maybe from Israel? Certainly now that they have proven to the Moslem world that the US are a bunch of perverts, and that Bush doesn't even care and leaves Rumsfeld in office? Imagining someone from the Bush administration being invited to Switzerland is a really funny thought.
  4. #64  
    Jpahl,

    Thanks for the perspective. The US media is indeed bad news (no pun intended). I can't understand why and how Israel has the US in their pocket. I also can't understand why the US media is not discussing the Project for the New American Century. (http://NewAmericanCentury.org). This is a group of extreme right-wingers (Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Quayle....the list is long) who have wanted to invade Iraq since 1996. The wrote letters to clinton and gingrich in 97 and 98 calling for the invasion of Iraq. The strange thing is that all of the information on this group is available on THEIR OWN WEB SITE, yet NO ONE is questioning the influence of this group on the decision to invade Iraq?

    Read their Statement of Principles and the document "Rebuilding America's Defenses".

    New American Century:
    http://www.newAmericanCentury.org

    Statement of Principles:
    http://www.newamericancentury.org/st...principles.htm

    Rebuilding America's Defenses:
    http://www.NewAmericanCentury.org/Re...asDefenses.pdf

    The latter is a lengthy (68 page) document, but a key quote from it:

    ""The strategic "transformation" of the U.S. military into an imperialistic force of global domination would require a huge increase in defense spending to "a minimum level of 3.5 to 3.8 percent of gross domestic product, adding $15 billion to $20 billion to total defense spending annually," the PNAC plan said. "The process of transformation is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event—like a new Pearl Harbor."

    Pearl Harbor? 9/11 ? It REALLY makes one think twice about all of those "Lame left wing conspiracy theories".

    Ok...I know I said I was finished with this thread, but, well.....I'm still holding back...
  5. #65  

    Different? For sure. Worse off? Not possible.
    It's not possible to be worse off? OK sure. Take that bag off your head! It's affecting your ability to think. Things could be alot worse.

    If this is the worst it can get I'd say we are doing pretty well.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  6. #66  
    Interesting to me that bush opposed and prevented the creation of the national 911 commission,
    then when it finally was created, cut funding severely for it (remember the 58 million spent to investigate clinton's BJ?).
    then tried to appoint "coverup" kissinger to head it.
    when called to testify, first refused, then aggreed to appear for one hour only, then agreed to appear only if NOT under oath, then only if not publicly, and with **** cheney holding his hand and NO transcripts.

    plenty to hide!!!!
    including proof that he completed his military service.

    you bushies must be so proud of your fearless leader!

    now when you flame this post, respond about bush and the 911 commission, NOT about what kerry or gore or somebody else did or didnt do. what is YOUR guy so afraid of????
    Last edited by nudist; 05/10/2004 at 10:22 AM.
  7. mrjoec's Avatar
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    #67  
    "So you wait until you've been burglarized to get an alarm system instead of getting one just because you might get burglarized? Do you wait to get car insurance until after you've had a wreck? Gonna buy your life insurance after your dead?" -Woof

    Is this supposed to be a comparison to something I said? I fail to see any logic in your argument here.

    What I said is that you shouldn't speculate about what might have happened in the past if things had gone differently, because there's no way of knowing that. You should, however, make decisons based on what might happen in the future, based on what you know to be fact in the present. So, of course, if I lived in a neighborhood where five houses were robbed in the last month, I'd probably get an alarm. But I wouldn't assume, then, that if I hadn't gotten that alarm, that I would DEFINITELY have been robbed.

    Let's face it, folks, political "discussions" are fairly pointless. Like religion, politics is one of those areas where people don't want to open their minds to other ideas. They simply want to hear other people reaffirm their own beliefs. And I'm not exempting myself from that, either. I'm just fascinated by the way people get so riled up when you start offering them anything that contradicts that carefully-balanced system.

    To paraphrase Kevin Smith: Beliefs are dangerous. People kill for beliefs. It would be better if we all just had ideas.
    mrjoec
    www.joecieplinski.com
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by scudder
    Would someone please move this inane thread to the correct discussion group. I cannot believe I actually got dragged in and read some of it.
    PS - no we don't shoot Haggi or run around in kilts :-)

    Yes......Please move it!!!
    Dennis G. Esler
  9. mrjoec's Avatar
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Prismatic
    Obviously not stupid..........but definetely well schooled in the practice of underhanded politics.

    My opinion of Mr. Gore is that he is a politician in the classic sense: Takes all of the credit, wants none of the blame. Worse than that the poor man doesn't have an original thought in his head. <-------harsh but more fact than fiction.
    I don't know. For me, the best way to tell who the better politician is is to ask yourself who won the election. Good politicians don't lose.

    However, I do agree with you that he behaved as a "classic" politician would. Taking credit, redirecting blame, etc. But he just had no sense of how to handle the press.

    And he was anything but original. Which is probably the biggest reason why I didn't like him much.
    mrjoec
    www.joecieplinski.com
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrjoec

    Let's face it, folks, political "discussions" are fairly pointless. Like religion, politics is one of those areas where people don't want to open their minds to other ideas. They simply want to hear other people reaffirm their own beliefs. And I'm not exempting myself from that, either. I'm just fascinated by the way people get so riled up when you start offering them anything that contradicts that carefully-balanced system.

    To paraphrase Kevin Smith: Beliefs are dangerous. People kill for beliefs. It would be better if we all just had ideas.

    Well said.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrjoec
    Let's face it, folks, political "discussions" are fairly pointless. Like religion, politics is one of those areas where people don't want to open their minds to other ideas. They simply want to hear other people reaffirm their own beliefs.
    For the short term, you are probably right. However, I'm not sure that holds true in the long term. For myself anyway, I may resist contrary ideas during the short term. However, if the ideas have merit (in my mind, anyway), I seem to think about them for a while. Months or years later, I may end up adopting the contrary idea as my own viewpoint. If the ideas are good, they seem to stick with me. IF they're bad, they don't.

    I think very differently about certain political and religious ideas than I did several years ago, and my thinking is still slooowly changing as I gain more experience.

    By the way, Go Bush!
    Palm V-->Visor Deluxe-->Visor Prism-->Visorphone-->Treo 180-->Treo 600-->Treo 650 on Sprint-->Treo 700p-->Centro-->Diamond-->Pre-->HTC EVO 4g???!
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by riverbruce
    Yeah and don't forget.... he invented the Treo 600. ;>) What a duffus!
    Wow, this joke still lives?

    I can't believe how long people hang onto B.S. since they really don't have anything intelligent to argue against the man.

    Just to help you out... the man passed a bill (I don't know if he wrote it though) that would give the proper funding for the Internet.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by gchomuk
    Setting the record straight on who's soft on terrorism

    Clinton years

    1993 WTC 1 attack - Four followers of the Egyptian cleric Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman were captured, convicted of the World Trade Center bombing in March 1994, and sentenced to 240 years in prison each. The purported mastermind of the plot, Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, was captured in 1995, convicted of the bombing in November 1997, and also sentenced to 240 years in prison. One additional suspect fled the U.S. and is believed to be living in Baghdad.
    DONE
    I love how your "coverage" of the truth just leaves out the fact that the first people who executed the 1993 WTC attack were all flunkies for Osama bin Laden in the same way the 9/11 pilots were. So actually, the real people responsible for the first WTC were not caught - just the henchmen were. If Clinton had truly taken care of business in '93 then 9/11 would just be another day in the year.

    It is quite evident that bin Laden had no effective deterrents leveraged against him by the Clinton administration as he continued to escalate hostilities towards the US (WTC I, USS Cole) peaking on 9/11. When people say Clinton was weak on terrorism, they're not saying he didn't try - they're saying he didn't use enough force. He allowed bin Laden to hide behind borders and extradition treaties. Tried to use covert ops and negotiation to get him. Bush said to hell with that stuff, if a country is going to harbor a terrorist then we're not going to respect their autonomy and we're going to kick the crap out of them and bring the terrorists to justice.

    And while you can say that Osama bin Laden has still not been caught, at least we destroyed a very good portion of his infrastructure and his life has been reduced to hiding in caves and being hunted like an animal every day by US forces. In contrast, during the Clinton administration he was free to move about Afghanistan and spend his days planning 9/11 and read press clippings of his attacks.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  14. #74  
    Per Richard Clarke's book, US wasn't even aware of Al Qaeda until around 1996. The first confirmed attack attributed to them was sometime after that. Until '96, the intel all referred to bin laden as "a financier" of terrorist activities, but there was never evidence of direct involvement.
  15. #75  
    As for Al Gore, its obvious he tried to make lead people into believing he was responsible for the Internet even though it was created in the 60's. As a tech person I found it very insulting to my intelligence and figured he was trying to con older people who didn't know any better. If you don't think that was his intention then you are just fooling yourself. As for 9/11, we'll never know what Gore would've done. I would hope he would've done the same thing Bush did and invaded Afghanastan but all we can use for reference is Clinton's track record since he was his VP. I do give Gore credit for one thing though - he's got a GREAT sense of humor. Did you see him on the SNL skit where he wouldn't leave the set of the West Wing as he kept fantasizing about being Pres? Prettty funny stuff.

    BTW, thank God Clinton didn't have a Treo to go with his cigar. Can you imagine getting THAT refurbished unit from P1?!?!? Who knows where that thing would've been!
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by gchomuk
    Per Richard Clarke's book, US wasn't even aware of Al Qaeda until around 1996. The first confirmed attack attributed to them was sometime after that. Until '96, the intel all referred to bin laden as "a financier" of terrorist activities, but there was never evidence of direct involvement.
    Hmmmm.... "a financier" - that's the guy who pays for all the expenses to make the attack happen right? The person without whom's financial help the attack just remains a twisted fantasy right? If they didn't think that guy was worth going after then another strike against the Clinton administration. And if they truly thought that bin Laden was not a major player then what about the link you posted that says the administration covertly hunted him for years?!?

    Anyway you slice it up, there are five points you can't argue: A) Clinton knew the danger of bin Laden. B) Clinton tried to get him through certain means. C) The means used were completely ineffective. D) Bin Laden was able to continue planning attacks unhindered. E) That is no longer the case.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    Anyway you slice it up, there are five points you can't argue: A) Clinton knew the danger of bin Laden. B) Clinton tried to get him through certain means. C) The means used were completely ineffective. D) Bin Laden was able to continue planning attacks unhindered. E) That is no longer the case.
    I can argue points C:
    Between 1991 and Bush being in office, there were no strikes in-country.

    D: Bin Laden is still not only able to plan bombings unhindered, but make videos as well. EDIT: Who planned the Madrid bombing? How does the Bush plan prevent such an attack? Are you willing to be strip searched and/or outlaw the use of backpack/briefcases and cell phones in America to prevent a Madrid style attack?

    Bah.....the whole war is a farce to create a perpetual war so that America can continue to be an arms dealer, get our hands on the oil spigot, ensure big government, increase military footprint in the middle east, and keep the US dollar as the fiat oil currency. "War on Terror" is BS. Keep drinking the GOP kool-aid.

    E. See D.

    For the rest of your post I will refer you to Clarke's book on the matter. He's far more qualified than I, and I won't rewrite his book for you here.
    Last edited by gchomuk; 05/10/2004 at 01:46 PM.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by timmins
    Wow, this joke still lives?

    I can't believe how long people hang onto B.S. since they really don't have anything intelligent to argue against the man.

    Just to help you out... the man passed a bill (I don't know if he wrote it though) that would give the proper funding for the Internet.
    Actually I was surprised it took as long as it did for that remark to surface. I guess the issue is that when your candidate has nothing to run on you resort to character assassination on the opponents ala Bush v. McCain in the 2000 primaries.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by gchomuk
    I can argue points C:
    Between 1991 and Bush being in office, there were no strikes in-country.
    So what country was the WTC located in during 1993?
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    So what country was the WTC located in during 1993?
    You got me. I was wrong. I was referring to the WTC bombing, but since I clearly wrote 1991, I therefore apologize unreservedly. I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputation was totally without basis in fact, and was in no way fair comment, and was motivated purely by malice, and I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you, or your family, and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.

    (With apologies to John Cleese in "A Fish Called Wanda").
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