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  1.    #1  
    You asked for it, James. Let the flames begin!
  2. #2  
    Haha, I'll start it by saying that if my Windoze 98 system crashes a few more times, I'm going to start searching to see if my accessories will work on Mac OSX (which looks really cool technically and GUI-wise).

    Do all USB devices work on the PC and Mac? I know I'm covered with my Visor.

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    James Hromadka
    VisorCentral.com
    Personal Website: http://www.Hromadka.com
  3. #3  
    MANDRAKE LINUX 7.1 BABY!!!

    actually i run both 98 and 7.1, ill probably wipe out 98 as soon as kernal 2.4 comes out.

    Macs suck, they brough stupid people computers with their cute GUI's. I long for the days when i was a little kid and i was the god of computers cuz i learned to use DOS at age 5.
  4. #4  
    I actually enjoy *good* os debates. But typically, once the word "sucks" shows up, it turns into a silly little ego bash.

    Give me my old Commodore 64!

  5. #5  
    Geos is the one for me!
    And They had the idea for a scaled down Desktop OS for handhelds WAY before WinCE Came out... (The HP Omnigo, Casio Zoomer et al)

    And if you want to get with a really technical one... Oberon...




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    Leo
  6. #6  
    Slightly off topic, but possibly amusing...

    previously...
    TI 99/4A
    IBM PC Jr (with the "Chiclet" keyboard)
    IBM XT (512k w/10mb drive)
    IBM AT (640k expanded to 2mb w/20mb drive)
    Packard Bell 286 (2mb w/80mb drive, my first Windows machine!)
    Homemade 386sx (2mb, 120mb drive)
    Gateway 486 (4mb w/420mb drive)

    currently...
    Homemade Pentium 233, 128mb w/(2) 10gb drives (still running Windows!)

    Oh... I did use an original Mac once at work and couldn't figure it out! Have played with Wang VS, DEC Rainbow, and a Sun box that I can't even remember anymore.

    I really miss the wireless keyboard from the Jr...

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    MarkEagle - Ice is nice!
  7. #7  
    Did i mention how much i like the OS on TI calculators. For some reason it just makes me happy to use it. Its down and dirty, non graphical.

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  8. #8  
    Just remember that if the Mac sucks, what does that make the operating system(s) that ripped it off?

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    James Hromadka
    VisorCentral.com
    Personal Website: http://www.Hromadka.com
  9. #9  
    It makes them better for being able to get decent hardware support for the thing....
  10. #10  
    Originally posted by homer:
    ...once the word "sucks" shows up, it turns into a silly little ego bash.
    Thank you, Homer!
    Add to the list of oxymorons: "OS discussion." I have yet to see an actual discussion (meaning open-minded and receptive discourse) about OSs - it's always about "my way is better than your way and you're an ***** if you don't agree."

    I have used Commodore 64, GEOWorks Ensemble, DR-DOS, MS-DOS (the full range,) VMS, UNIX (UCB 4.1, AIX, many other assorted flavors,) Linux, MS-Windows 3.0, 3.1, 95, 98, NT, very little MAC (never had a need to.) You know what? Every one of them had strong points that I miss in the others; every one of them had shortcomings I was glad to see addressed elsewhere.

    What it comes down to is: use whatever suits your needs, and don't you dare try to tell me what is best and what I should be using!

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    I doubt, therefore I might be.


    [This message has been edited by linguas (edited 08-12-2000).]
  11. #11  
    Originally posted by linguas:
    Add to the list of oxymorons: "OS discussion." I have yet to see an actual discussion (meaning open-minded and receptive discourse) about OSs - it's always about "my way is better than your way and you're an ***** if you don't agree."
    I agree. Mac, Windows, and *nix are all great Os's that people should use based on their needs. My needs at home are changing where I could change to a Mac if I wanted to. Office 2001 is coming out soon, and all I don't play games anymore on my PC.

    Interesting enough, it seems that the Palm platform is going through the same split. I've seen plenty of Palm vs. Visor vs. TRGPro wars, when people should be getting what they want. If my wife bought an m100, I wouldn't divorce her.


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    James Hromadka
    VisorCentral.com
    Personal Website: http://www.Hromadka.com
  12. #12  
    Originally posted by JHromadka:
    Just remember that if the Mac sucks, what does that make the operating system(s) that ripped it off?
    Originally posted by b1lanceman:
    It makes them better for being able to get decent hardware support for the thing....
    Does that mean that the Mac OS has better hardware support? And Windows benefitted from copying that...?

    As far as USB devices working on PC and Mac, I've been lucky that all of my devices have worked. Of course, they were a lot easier to set up on my Mac... The PC had to go through all sorts of gyrations searching for drivers

    I sync my Visor with both my Mac and PC laptops (Mac at home, PC at work). My biggest issue is that some things work slightly differently on each OS. I keep having problems cutting and pasting for instance (the Mac uses the command key, and the PC uses the control key). The networking setup makes me crazy on the PC. If I have to capture the laserprinter one more time...or remember how to do filesharing...

    I like things to be simple! I think the strength of the Mac OS is the integration, and the fact that much of the function is "invisible" to the user. I count on the fact that I can fire up any Mac program and have it use the same commands, and that I can "plug and play" all kinds of peripherals.

    Now that doesn't mean I can't setup a Windows machine....It just takes me a little longer, and it's a lot more frustrating. Probably because I don't do it often...

    Windows really only "looks" like the Mac OS, the philosophy behind the design is way different. Windows is complicated, and they confused complicated with powerful. If they could make it simple and powerful, I'd consider switching to it entirely. There are times when I just need my computer to do what I want it to (without having to resort to colorful language...) Until then I'll stick with my Mac, it just works.

    It really is a matter of preference.




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    Queen of Parts
  13.    #13  
    Six years ago, I used Macs designing flyers and other stationery for a cybercafe. At that time, I really did think Macs were better. But since the advent of Windows 95 and 98, I haven't been able to justify getting a Mac.

    My office is Mac-centric. All the writers have iMacs or iBooks. The art department uses G4s. G4s are fantastic, and iBooks are fine if you like their design (which I don't, to put it mildly). But as far as iMacs, why anyone would spend over $1000 for an entry-level computer these days is beyond me. Oh, that's right, they look cool (so everyone says), but I'd rather spend $700 for a P600 and use the change to buy some peripherals -- which are cheaper than Mac equivalents.

    Yes, you have a spend an extra hour or (occasionally) two setting up everything, but that's a minor inconvenience in the scheme of things.

    I don't buy the cliché that MacOS is easier to navigate than Windows. As a writer, I actually find Macs more irritating to work with than Windows. Because of Apple's adherence to single-button mice, I find myself moving the mouse at least three times as much as in Windows with an Intellimouse. Having a scroll button and right-click capability does mean that you have to spend an extra ten minutes of learning than you would with a single-button mouse, but you pay for that inconvience by not having to move the more around nearly as much. (Yes, I know you can Command-click, but that's even more movement.

    I also much prefer the Windows taskbar to see what applications are active at a glance without having to use the mouse. I hate having to mouse over to Finder to view my running applications.

    These gripes may seem like hair-splitting, but if you write ten hours a day every day, those idiosyncracies add up. I haven't gotten used to those quirks, even after months. Every time I come home and write on my PC, I'm reminded of what writing should feel like.

    MacOS does handle multimedia much better than Windows, but for writing, I'll take Windows any day of the week.
  14. #14  
    hmmmm.... I don't see how this has any relation to Visors, James, but I'll give it a try. I am a 13 year old techie person, and have used computers sence kindergarten. It was dos programs back then, and dos didn't have any if all strenghts. But then I was also using Apple IIe's which were even worse being that it had n obuilt in OS, you had to hav a floppy in all the time. The Mac progressed while windows stayed behind. Windows 3.1 was horrible, with multitasking and etc. The LC II's were good and the OS that came with them was adequite. (I actually think the that OS is as good as Win 95, the y both chrash a lot!) When Win 95 came out, and we actually got it at our house, (Our first computer) It was perfect, except it ALWAYS CHRASHED. Especially because I loaded it with programs so it had 100 mbs of free space on it. The Mac OS didn't change (in my eyes) until OS 9, which is fabulous. Windows 98 reduced the chrashing but everything is the same otherwise. OS 9 is with the future, having a nice built in Voice Rec, good finder and the such. At this time, I was introduced to RedHat Linux. I had mastered win 98/95, and wanted more control. Linux gave me unlimited control, and is still over my head in complicity. I love it. I like win 98 because it gave me control, but I like linux better. I love mac for networking, but anything else I'm not too sure of. After I was introduced to linux I ran out and beged to friends for parts to build a computer. That was pretty easy, being in a rich neighborhood, and all the people having 486's and them not wanting them. I installed linux on the machine I built, and it hasn't chrashed yet (I think it has been 3 months) I am now upgrading my motherboard and CPu and am enjoying it throughly. For doing WP Mac I think is best. For doing web or graphics Windows is best. And to do development Linux is best. all OS's have their strengths and weaknesses and theirfore I cannot give a which is better. I LOVE MICROSOFT, APPLE, HP, TRANSMETA, HANDSPRING, and REDHAT!!!

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    this is not a sig, but me just typing
  15. #15  
    Because of Apple's adherence to single-button mice, I find myself moving the mouse at least three times as much as in Windows with an Intellimouse.
    Someone needs to ref in here!

    The above quote is a good point, but invalid. APPLE has adhered to the 1-button mouse, but the USERS haven't. As long as I can remember, I've been using a 4-button mouse on my Macs. Saying my Mac is better than your PC because it has twice the buttons is just silly. The number of buttons on the mice is a harware issue...not an OS issue.
  16. #16  
    Look at your choices in Video Cards. For a Mac the only viable options are an ATI and a Voodoo5 5500. Whereas on a PC, I can get all of the above, the Geforce2, and the upcoming voodoo5 6000.

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  17. #17  
    The one in my Mac is all I need. Do I need a different video card? Again, a silly argument. If you need a different card than, yes, the PC with Windows is a better choice for you...if not, than what's it matter?

    C'mon...I'm looking for a good debate here!...
  18. #18  
    The first computer I used was an IBM Clone with some very early form of DOS on it. learned all the dir, cd/, cd.., etc ommands at about age 7, and never really got into computers until I was about 14. I picked up a really old Mac 512k with 400k 3 1/2" Floppy drive for $15 a garage sale. System 3 Mac OS. Family friend gave me a Mac SE. That lasted me for a few years. I did hundreds of pages worth of homework on that little box 6 Computers later, I now have a G4/400. And a 500Mhz K6-2 Win98 machine (for gaming, what else?). I use the G4 for everyday work on webpages, photoshop, quake3, etc. etc. and bring the pc to lan parties. I had Linux on my G4 for a while, but never really used it.

    To get to the point, I use both Win98 OSR1 and Mac OS 9.0.4 daily, and I find that the Mac OS just has a more fluid workflow. It's the little things that count here... . Thet ability to hide a whole program (and ALL of it's windows) with a simple click drag with the Mac OS. that isn't possible with multi windowed program on Windows machines is it? correct me if I'm wrong, I would like to know File save dialog boxes are also easier to use with the Mac OS. And none of those.. silly.. forward and back buttons on windows (I know you can get rid of them.. I don't think they should be default) in Win98+. These are all personal prefrences, but there are some of the reaons I keep using macs. They make simple what shouldn't have to be hard in the first place.
  19. #19  
    Mac vs. Windows?! Well I guess it depends on what flavor of Windows your talking about, but I feel W2K beats Mac hands down. The W2K box stays up and running for months at a time (Between any form of shutdown/restart), whereas my Macs need to be shutdown or restart atleast 3 times per week. W2K supports the dual processors, protected memory, preemptive multitasking, etc..etc.. these must be good things as Apple is pushing toward these features sometime next year with OSX ..

    The PC is going to allow a wide variety of interface customizations (whereas the Mac is going to limit users to the Aqua interface)..

    With my PC I don't have to buy new peripherals when buying a new PC, unlike a Mac (completely phasing out nubus, scsi, adb, video adapters, along with a myriad of other interfaces) .. with the PC, the "phase out" process is much more end-user friendly.

    I can have custom built PCs which is very nice in various circumstances (ie servers) -- why have a fast video card, premium sound, DVD drives, etc..etc.. in systems that don't need it? Seems like your stuck with it on a Mac cauze you don't have as many options..

    The PC has made great strides over the past few years to be more user friendly. Menus feature the users commonly used options so it doesn't overwhelm them. Frequently used applications can easily be placed on the task bar, one mouse click away.. the system protects the end user from inadvertantly installing over system files.. the system has OS level security features so multiple users using the computer won't beable to access each others files (unlike the Win95/98 and Mac9 multiuser options)

    Personally I like the rich features associted with the save/open dialog boxes on a windows machine. I have the option of creating directories, moving around files, copying files, opening files using their natively assigned program instead of the current app, etc.. Granted, Apple is starting to include some of this functionaility in the MacOS, unfortunately, programs must be written to support them, so programs have a various array of Open/Save dialog boxes..

    Plain out gripes about the Macintosh --> Apple makes the hardware & software -- I'd think that would give them enough power to make sure third party apps wouldn't beable to crash the system as frequently as they do (bad extensions, programs just dieing for no reason, etc..) -- The macintosh should be the most stable platform due to the tight reigns that Apple has on the platform.

    I have found that thirdparty extensions/applications cause Apple's own control panels/extensions/programs to fail. Whats up with that?! With OS9 on my G4/500 and G3/333, I have had countless times where control panels (latest example: file sharing) right after a reboot would fail to open (Crashes when clicked on). I have also had sherlock come up with a crash when started, or a dialog that says it can't find sherlock, among other rediculous claims. Strange..

    Anyways, if I was to choose one platform or the other, taking into consideration the cost, features, interface, stability, etc.. I'd choose the Windows 2000 box..
  20. #20  
    The PC is going to allow a wide variety of interface customizations (whereas the Mac is going to limit users to the Aqua interface)..
    How so?

    With my PC I don't have to buy new peripherals when buying a new PC, unlike a Mac (completely phasing out nubus, scsi, adb, video adapters, along with a myriad of other interfaces) .
    You don't with the Mac, either. You can by very affordable cards for all of the above. This was annoying to me, as well, but I was EXTREMELY happy to finally get rid of those SCSI devices. And the built-in Firewire is great.

    I can have custom built PCs which is very nice in various circumstances (ie servers) -- why have a fast video card, premium sound, DVD drives, etc..etc.. in systems that don't need it?
    True...more options on the PC side of things.

    Apple is starting to include some of this functionaility in the MacOS, unfortunately, programs must be written to support them, so programs have a various array of Open/Save dialog boxes..
    To add to this, I think this is where Apple has faltered over the years. They were typically always easier to use than Windows, and they knew that. Because of that, they did little to really advance the OS. Meanwhile, Windows had done a lot to get their OS up to speed. Apple could have been so much farther along had they continued to innovate the MacOS.

    Plain out gripes about the Macintosh --> Apple makes the hardware & software -- I'd think that would give them enough power to make sure third party apps wouldn't beable to crash the system as frequently as they do (bad extensions, programs just dieing for no reason, etc..)
    This is the programmers fault, not Apples.

    The macintosh should be the most stable platform due to the tight reigns that Apple has on the platform.
    It is fairly stable. Actually Windows is too...it really depends on how well a user maintains their system. Win2K has a much better architecture as far as being less crash-prone...again, Apple's been slacking.

    I have found that thirdparty extensions/applications cause Apple's own control panels/extensions/programs to fail. Whats up with that?!
    This is another problem (though Windows certainly is not immune from this either!) due to Apples slow evolution of the OS. All of these patches have been applied by the software companys to enhance the OS in ways Apple hasn't.

    BTW, which OS are you using? Have you upgraded to 9.04? It sounds like you are having a hell of a time keeping it up and running.

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