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  1. #21  
    Well the income tax rate in Canada is from 22% - 26% depending on the amount of income you are earning.

    Yes we are paying for treatment via our tax dollars. However, Americans are paying too.. and they still have to pay for medical care.

    Originally posted by dannoz


    Hrm... "FreeĒ Iím not positive of the exact percentage of the Canadian "dollar" earned that each individual gets to keep...

    However, I do imagine that it is something more than... zero. If some portion (or majority) of your earned income is confiscated, perhaps a strong word, then NOTHING on which it is spent should be considered free.
    My life is in my Treo... Where is yours?
  2. #22  
    Please point me in the right direction. How many billions of dollars does the U.S contribute to the "corrupt countries" every year specifically for healthcare? Better yet post a list of the countries that receive the most U.S. money every year.

    The U.S. have some of the best doctors in the world. So does Great Britain, France, Canada and a bunch of other 'First World' countries.

    Originally posted by dannoz

    However, how many more billions to we spend on "treating" the sick of other nations who's governments are too corupt to do it themselves.

    Some may see this as being a "bully" and forcing our (evil) western ways upon them. Yet the second we pause before handing out further billions we are condemned and villified in the court of world opinion.

    Either your want our help or you don't... the double standard has to end.

    [From the Room Mate]

    Just look where everyone else in the world goes when they want quality healthcare. I personally know the surgeon who did Boris Yeltsin's bypass surgery.

    [/From the Room Mate]
    My life is in my Treo... Where is yours?
  3. #23  
    If there should be no entitlements, why even have a government?

    Originally posted by MIKE STH
    There should be no "entitlements". It's very simple, you work and are compensated for your efforts. If you do not agree with the compensation, then find another job or get off your duff and learn new skills. I am not my brother's keeper, nor should I expect to be. I have my plate full bearing the responsibility of raising my family and contributing to society. One of these days, you that believe so much in entitlements should that the time to read ATLAS SHRUGGED 1957/Ann Rand. There are doers and those that whine, gnash the teeth and ride on coattails. You have a choice as to which group you belong. Can you even begin to imagine the wealth and prosperity that would be generated in this country if only 20% of the 'entitlement junkies' started to contribute to the GNP?

    You have bootstraps for a reason.
    My life is in my Treo... Where is yours?
  4. #24  
    So you believe the sole purpose of Government is to provide entitlements? Are you serious?

    I can see how we spawn generations on the government teat...

    Little matters like defense, security, immigration, infrastructure etc need a centralized body to orchestrate, but there is currently way too much intrusion into a citizens life. The government is so bloated at this point that one cannot find the meat within the fat.



    Originally posted by yardie
    If there should be no entitlements, why even have a government?

    "Stupid Handspring."
  5. #25  
    Better yet...why do you need entitlements? If you have to depend on the government for basic support to any degree, how could you possibly look yourself in the mirror?


    Originally posted by yardie
    If there should be no entitlements, why even have a government?

    "Stupid Handspring."
  6. #26  
    Originally posted by dannoz


    Folks... sorry to have to weigh in on this issue also. ANYONE in the United States of America can take care of their own needs. Billions of dollars are poured in to social welfare programs. EVERYONE with the mental facility to do so (and those who don't also have programs setup to aid them) can find some benefit through the system which is in place. If you're "living on the street" it is either due to unfortunate innate disablility and someone, probably your parents, didn't care enough to take care of you.... or you simply refuse to recognize that the world does not OWE YOU A THING.
    I'd like to point out that while I'm presently receiving medical assistance from a social welfare program, if I made a mere $50 more a month I'd be ineligible, and still unable to afford it.
  7. #27  
    Originally posted by Yorick

    I'd like to point out that while I'm presently receiving medical assistance from a social welfare program, if I made a mere $50 more a month I'd be ineligible, and still unable to afford it.
    Without joining either side in this debate, I think I can safely say that is a boneheaded program. There should never be any government program that so blatantly provides incentives not to work more when they would otherwise like to. I'm not saying the assitance is bad/to little/to much, whatever. Just that at the margin this provides people an incentive to work less, and needs to be fixed. I'm a big believer in people's ability to do what is best for themselves. It's a shame some governmental programs are constructed in such a way that doing what is best for the individual is not best for society.

    When you think about it. This is like a 300% (or something greater than 100%) marginal income tax.
  8. #28  
    Originally posted by yardy

    Year after year the Scandinavian countries and Canada usually get the top UN ranking for the best countries to live in. Nevertheless, the suicide rate is interesting... the burning question is why is it high?
    Light, or better lack of light during winte... scandinavia lies close to the polar circle, which means the further north you go the less light you get in winter.. in summer you hardly get any darkness...
    I guess it is the same in alaska...
    It wouldnt surprize me if alaska has simular suicide rates...
    Strange things happen if our bioritme's get messed up...
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  9. #29  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    Without joining either side in this debate, I think I can safely say that is a boneheaded program. There should never be any government program that so blatantly provides incentives not to work more when they would otherwise like to. I'm not saying the assitance is bad/to little/to much, whatever. Just that at the margin this provides people an incentive to work less, and needs to be fixed. I'm a big believer in people's ability to do what is best for themselves. It's a shame some governmental programs are constructed in such a way that doing what is best for the individual is not best for society.
    To play devil's advocate, I imagine it's just that particular program.
    I'm about to apply for Medicaid (to deal with any future trouble, assuming I get accepted) which has a similar earnings cap tho.
  10. #30  
    Originally posted by ToolkiT

    Light, or better lack of light during winte... scandinavia lies close to the polar circle, which means the further north you go the less light you get in winter.. in summer you hardly get any darkness...
    I guess it is the same in alaska...
    It wouldnt surprize me if alaska has simular suicide rates...
    Strange things happen if our bioritme's get messed up...
    I thought it might be the music....

    Swedish Music Samples

    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  11. #31  
    Originally posted by BobbyMike


    I thought it might be the music....

    Swedish Music Samples

    Nah, one can never get too much ABBA

    It probably is the remoteness and lack of entertainment too.. in outback australia the suicide rate is pretty high too...
    So is the alcoholism rate (and in Scandinavia they have an alcohol problem too)
    I guess remoteness and lack of entertainment leads to drinking.. put that in combination of hardly any natural light it doesnt surprize me people get depressed...

    Good news is that in the southern part of Sweden, where the bigger cities are, live is pretty good..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  12. #32  
    Originally posted by ToolkiT
    [...] I guess remoteness and lack of entertainment leads to drinking.. put that in combination of hardly any natural light it doesnt surprize me people get depressed... [...]
    Personally, I could live without ever having Natural Light around when I wanted to drink. That stuff is awful.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  13. #33  
    Originally posted by Toby
    Personally, I could live without ever having Natural Light around when I wanted to drink. That stuff is awful.
    What stuff? natural light? or alcohol?
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  14. #34  
    When you think about it, the sole purpose of government is to provide entitlements. What would you call defense, security and infrastructure? Aren't they a kind of entitlement? What is the difference between providing healthcare for the sick and building roads for drivers?

    Originally posted by MIKE STH
    So you believe the sole purpose of Government is to provide entitlements? Are you serious?

    I can see how we spawn generations on the government teat...

    Little matters like defense, security, immigration, infrastructure etc need a centralized body to orchestrate, but there is currently way too much intrusion into a citizens life. The government is so bloated at this point that one cannot find the meat within the fat.



    My life is in my Treo... Where is yours?
  15. #35  
    For the record, I am not dependent on the government for anything. Still, it is good to have a government that cares about the less fortunate... not only the rich. I think the "every man/woman for himself/herself" thinking is shortsighted. Ever wondered why such a society does not exist today?

    Originally posted by MIKE STH
    Better yet...why do you need entitlements? If you have to depend on the government for basic support to any degree, how could you possibly look yourself in the mirror?


    My life is in my Treo... Where is yours?
  16. #36  
    Originally posted by yardie
    For the record, I am not dependent on the government for anything. Still, it is good to have a government that cares about the less fortunate... not only the rich. I think the "every man/woman for himself/herself" thinking is shortsighted. Ever wondered why such a society does not exist today?

    I totally agree!
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  17. #37  
    Originally posted by dannoz
    [B
    Yeah, there may be some things I would change with America... but there is not even ONE other country in the world I would rather live in. [/B]
    How many other countries in the world do you know? How can you tell?
  18. #38  
    Originally posted by BobbyMike
    I'd just like to say that I believe it isn't the Governments place to provide social services to it's people. That should remain in the private sector. Everytime the Governmant gets involved into social services it fails miserably.
    Who says health insurance has to be provided by the Government? It certainly isn't e.g. in Switzerland.
  19. #39  
    Originally posted by ToolkiT
    What stuff? natural light? or alcohol?
    Natural Light. http://www.tobp.com/review/beer.asp?t=86
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  20. #40  
    Originally posted by clulup


    Who says health insurance has to be provided by the Government? It certainly isn't e.g. in Switzerland.
    That's what this discussion is about - The US providing more/better health coverage for it's citizens.

    Can health insurance be considered different? (not trying to pick nits, just don't want to veer off on a rabbit trail)
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
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