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  1.    #1  
    I don't know who else caught the story that according to reporters in Iraq, who were talking to some US soldiers about the large amount of cash being found, some US soldiers felt entitled to a cash bonus (from the found loot) for a job "well done".

    If this report is true (and it may well be) and the soldiers were serious, do you agree, disagree, etc. I was going to make this into a poll, but I didn't want to influence anyones' answers.

    I personally think some US soldiers need a "bonus" kick in the ****. That money belongs entirely to the Iraqi people. I guess you could consider it their "bonus" for living under a dictator for so long.

    Feel free to include comments about civilians caught trying to slip loot home too. I know at least one (former) Fox news employee was caught trying to smuggle objects into the US.
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  2. #2  
    Main Entry: 1steal
    Pronunciation: 'stE(&)l
    Function: verb
    Inflected Form(s): stole /'stOl/; sto·len /'stO-l&n/; steal·ing
    Etymology: Middle English stelen, from Old English stelan; akin to Old High German stelan to steal
    Date: before 12th century
    intransitive senses
    1 : to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as an habitual or regular practice
    transitive senses
    1 a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully <stole a car> b : to take away by force or unjust means <they've stolen our liberty> c : to take surreptitiously or without permission <steal a kiss> d : to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share : make oneself the focus of <steal the show>

    emphasis added
  3. #3  
    Stealing is stealing. Should a doctor help himself to your wallet while you're asleep after a "job well done" on a surgery?
    Last edited by KRamsauer; 04/24/2003 at 12:18 PM.
  4. #4  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    Stealing is stealing. Should a doctor help himself to your wallet while your asleep after a "job well done" on a surgery?
    Well, they basically do that already.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  5.    #5  
    Originally posted by Toby

    Well, they basically do that already.
    Ouch!
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  6. #6  
    Originally posted by BobbyMike
    Ouch!
    Hehe, I might've said the same about lawyers, but I don't want to get on K's bad side. OTOH, I also refrained about the 'unilateral liberation' of that money.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
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    #7  
    It's illegal in accordance with UCMJ and Geneva Convention. I'm sure anyone caught doing this will be prosecuted.

    Ray Cannon, Lt Col (Ret), USAF
  8.    #8  
    Originally posted by F1Turbo
    It's illegal in accordance with UCMJ and Geneva Convention. I'm sure anyone caught doing this will be prosecuted.

    Ray Cannon, Lt Col (Ret), USAF
    Thanks Col.

    As a formerly active Marine I knew it was against the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice for the rest of you), I was just appalled that some of our troops supposedly felt it was ok to keep some of the found cash "as a bonus". The troops that said this were not the ones that tried to hide some of the cash BTW.

    Here's a link to the story

    Four GIs Planned to Pinch $12M
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  9. #9  
    Originally posted by BobbyMike
    [...] Here's a link to the story

    Four GIs Planned to Pinch $12M
    Sounds like some people watched Three Kings a few too many times.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  10. #10  
    Originally posted by BobbyMike
    Four GIs Planned to Pinch $12M
    I trust the military will be swift and severe in its punishment. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the military doesn't really tend to draw things out to the length of many civil trials.
  11.    #11  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    I trust the military will be swift and severe in its punishment. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the military doesn't really tend to draw things out to the length of many civil trials.
    Well, I think you're right. Military personnel have fewer "rights" in a trial proceedure. Leavenworth is also definitely not a "cable TV and steak dinner" kinda prison. Defendents are also assigned lawyers, Johnny Cochran can't just stroll into a proceeding and start fast talking.
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  12. #12  
    Actually I think its human nature to do what some of the troops did. They will never see that much amount if money in theri lifetime again. Greed really drives us. A lot of us who are spewing condemnation would be tempted as well.


    Originally posted by BobbyMike


    Thanks Col.

    As a formerly active Marine I knew it was against the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice for the rest of you), I was just appalled that some of our troops supposedly felt it was ok to keep some of the found cash "as a bonus". The troops that said this were not the ones that tried to hide some of the cash BTW.

    Here's a link to the story

    Four GIs Planned to Pinch $12M
    My life is in my Treo... Where is yours?
  13.    #13  
    Originally posted by yardie
    Actually I think its human nature to do what some of the troops did. They will never see that much amount if money in theri lifetime again. Greed really drives us. A lot of us who are spewing condemnation would be tempted as well.


    Speak for yourself. Some of us were raised by parents who taught us stealing is bad (see K. Cannons' post).

    Your acceptence of their criminality is interesting as you spend a lot of time posting about the actions of others and how "bad" they can be.

    But don't feel bad, many members of the Liberal Left view life the same way - with an attitude of situational morality.

    Are you saying you would of stolen some money? Or are you saying some of us would have?
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  14. #14  
    Originally posted by yardie
    Actually I think its human nature to do what some of the troops did. They will never see that much amount if money in theri lifetime again. Greed really drives us. A lot of us who are spewing condemnation would be tempted as well.


    You better not be implying all human nature is justifiable?
  15. #15  
    I too was trained not to steal etc. I am just saying that it easy for us to criticize someone when we are not in their shoes. I am not sure how I would react if I come across so much money. It is easy for me to say right now that I wouldn't take any. Remember that money is the root of all evil. Most wars etc. has money as the root cause.

    Originally posted by BobbyMike


    Speak for yourself. Some of us were raised by parents who taught us stealing is bad (see K. Cannons' post).

    Your acceptence of their criminality is interesting as you spend a lot of time posting about the actions of others and how "bad" they can be.

    But don't feel bad, many members of the Liberal Left view life the same way - with an attitude of situational morality.

    Are you saying you would of stolen some money? Or are you saying some of us would have?
    My life is in my Treo... Where is yours?
  16. #16  
    Of course not. But one have to be realistic.

    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    You better not be implying all human nature is justifiable?
    My life is in my Treo... Where is yours?
  17.    #17  
    Originally posted by yardie
    I too was trained not to steal etc. I am just saying that it easy for us to criticize someone when we are not in their shoes. I am not sure how I would react if I come across so much money. It is easy for me to say right now that I wouldn't take any. Remember that money is the root of all evil. Most wars etc. has money as the root cause.

    Mioney is not the root of evil. the correct quote is "The love of money is the root of all evil". Money is a thing, therefore it cannot be evil or good.
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  18. #18  
    Originally posted by yardie
    Most wars etc. has money as the root cause.
    untrue. the majority of wars are caused by religious intolerance.
  19. #19  
    Originally posted by Toby

    Sounds like some people watched Three Kings a few too many times.
    That popped into my mind too...
    I guess it is a good script for 3 kings, part 2... :/

    As for what I think about this matter, I guess most of you can allready work that out

    About yardies remark, I think he has a point, no matter how you were raised, greed is enbedded in our system.. when presented a get rich quick scheme, most people will have a think about it...
    The big difference is most people realize it is wrong and dont act on it... but it human nature to at least think about it...
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  20.    #20  
    Originally posted by ToolkiT

    That popped into my mind too...
    I guess it is a good script for 3 kings, part 2... :/

    As for what I think about this matter, I guess most of you can allready work that out

    About yardies remark, I think he has a point, no matter how you were raised, greed is enbedded in our system.. when presented a get rich quick scheme, most people will have a think about it...
    The big difference is most people realize it is wrong and dont act on it... but it human nature to at least think about it...
    Is it? Or could it be the way you've been raised? My son Crispin, 7 years, found $11 on the ground at a rest stop in Tenn., last month while we're on vacation. Did he "think about keeping it"? No. Without hesitation he took it to the help desk and told them the story and handed over the loot. They took his name and address and told him he would get it if no one came back for it.

    He's been raised that if something is not yours and you take it, it's stealing. As Christians that's one of the big no nos. I was glad he chose (without any prompting) to do what was right.

    I don't think that "greed is embedded" in our system. Most people that I know personally try to do what's right and have vocations that are based on interest, not income. I would trust them with my money, because I know that they aren't focused on the buck, but on trying to finish the day in a way that they can be proud of.

    But this comes from being optimistic, not pessimistic.

    BTW the ladies sent Crispin the $11 as they told him they would if no one claimed it. I guess they could have kept it without anyone knowing the truth.

    And this discussion wasn't about people thinking, it was about people doing. Big difference. All the "spewing condemnation " as yardie put it (which I missed - no-one was spewing anything that I saw) was directed to people who tried to steal and/or thought they deserved a portion of money that belonged to someone else.

    (I'm still not sure the troops actually initiated that response either. It wouldn't be the first time a journalist asked a leading question for effect.)

    Most people do know right from wrong. Active discussion about what the differences are must remain a vital part in any cultures public debates. Permissiveness leads to lapse, lapse leads to decay.

    Rome wasn't built in a day, and it didn't fall in one.
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
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