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  1. #81  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer


    Alright, I can't take it any more. You're such a goody little **& &D(*&(*D &(&()((*)(&(* (^&*^%&*% &*%*&^&*(%&(*^(&% )*(^% &(*^*&%^&*(*)%(&*&()& .
    Originally posted by K. Cannon

    Group Hug!!
    Why is it, if somebody says something nice it is being ridiculed?
    By all acting tough the world is not getting a better place....
    If more people would just play nice and admit to their faults the world would improve IMHO...
    But you probably consider me a next gen hippy or something...
    :/
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  2. #82  
    Originally posted by ToolkiT
    Why is it, if somebody says something nice it is being ridiculed?
    Wasn't ridiculing! I *really do* enjoy the community here that allows you and me to disagree on things but still be friends!
  3.    #83  
    Originally posted by ToolkiT




    Why is it, if somebody says something nice it is being ridiculed?
    By all acting tough the world is not getting a better place....
    If more people would just play nice and admit to their faults the world would improve IMHO...
    But you probably consider me a next gen hippy or something...
    :/
    I thought I was poking fun at all those that actually do get angry at online bulletin boards. I failed.
  4. #84  
    Originally posted by KRamsauer
    I thought I was poking fun at all those that actually do get angry at online bulletin boards. I failed.
    Sorry, I did see your and knew you weren't 100% serious...
    Maybe I'm a bit sensitive on this subject...

    I do tend to see this kind of behaviour a lot though.. sometimes it really pisses me off...
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  5. #85  
    Originally posted by K. Cannon

    Wasn't ridiculing! I *really do* enjoy the community here that allows you and me to disagree on things but still be friends!
    Sorry to interprete it the wrong way.. it sounded like a sarcastic remark...
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  6. #86  
    Originally posted by ToolkiT

    Aren't you turning things around? isnt customs designed to check what gets into your country, instead of leaves the country??
    Why would canada check what goes into the US? that is the US's business...
    Off course a little cooperation between the 2 neighbouring countries would be nice, but it is each countries customs task to check what enters the country..
    Since the explosives and illegal arms are illegal and proscribed in Canada too, you would think they would be worried about what passes through their country. And it is customs duty to be aware of what leaves a country too.


    Originally posted by ToolkiT
    I speak to plenty americans, both online and IRL..
    Dont get to meet many 'rednecks' though.. they seem to stay at home a lot...
    The americans that do travel seem to be a lot more openminded than the ones that never leave their state or even county...
    You're probably hanging with people very similar to you.

    What's a redneck? Please explain.

    Originally posted by ToolkiT
    I agree most european countries messed up in the past.. but they learned from it... the US still needs to realize that...
    I posit they they haven't learned from the past. The present anti-war protests echo the hue that presaged WWII. The US is no more ignorant than the European Union.
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  7. #87  
    Originally posted by yardie
    Of course in this case the would-be bombers would be a terrorist. But what does this one particular case had to do with what I had to say? Are you suggesting that the U.S invade Canada to stop terrorists from crossing over?
    What does it take for someone to be called a terrorist? I was referring to your overly broad statement - "Ever notice that the word terrorism is linked to everything the U.S. government hates or disagree with now?"

    Are you suggesting we should invade? That's ridiculous.

    Originally posted by yardie
    Why would an American smuggle guns from Canada when anyone with a oulse can go and buy one legally at a store? The last time I checked the Canadian govt is concerned about guns ending up in Canada from the U.S. where the right to bear arms is enshrined in the constitution.
    First, "anyone with a oulse (pulse?) can go and buy one legally at a store?" can't just get one. I'm not necessarily talking about Americans either. We were talking about terrorism.

    Second, I'm talking about illegal arms - meaning unregistered guns. Everything from semi-automatic handguns to automatic weapons. I'm not talking about law-abiding citizens buying guns for hunting purposes.

    Third, you need to lighten up. You're going to end up a prime candidate for ulcers, heart disease, and colon cancer. You're wound a bit too tight. Maybe you should look into yoga?
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  8. #88  
    Those wacky French!

    Chirac Upsets East Europe by Telling It to 'Shut Up' on Iraq

    You can't make this stuff up!
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  9. #89  
    Originally posted by BobbyMike
    Those wacky French!

    Chirac Upsets East Europe by Telling It to 'Shut Up' on Iraq

    You can't make this stuff up!
    Can you paste that article here, I'm not a member of the NYTimes
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  10. #90  
    Chirac Upsets East Europe by Telling It to 'Shut Up' on Iraq
    By CRAIG S. SMITH


    RUSSELS, Feb. 18 The continental rift over Iraq widened sharply today after East European candidates for European Union membership reacted indignantly to advice from President Jacques Chirac of France to pipe down on the subject or risk losing their chance to join Europe's most powerful economic and political club.

    "We thought we were preparing for war with Saddam Hussein and not Jacques Chirac," said Alexander Vondra, deputy foreign minister of the Czech Republic, one of the European Union applicants that have drawn French ire by openly supporting the United States and Britain in the Iraqi crisis. Mr. Vondra said his country and its immediate neighbors "definitely cannot remain silent," as Mr. Chirac advised on Monday.

    Adam Rotfeld, deputy foreign minister of Poland, the largest of the European Union candidates, said, "France has a right to define its own policy and we have to respect it," but he added that France must offer the same respect to Poland.

    Mr. Chirac, in an unusual outburst to reporters in Brussels on Monday after a contentious emergency European Union summit meeting on Iraq, derided those Central and East European countries that have signed letters expressing their support for the United States as "childish," "dangerous" and missing "an opportunity to shut up."

    He went on to suggest that opposing France and Germany could hurt candidates for European Union membership.

    "When you are in the family," Mr. Chirac said, "you have more rights than when you are asking to join and knocking on the door."

    He warned that Romania and Bulgaria, the poorest of the 10 candidates to the 15-member bloc, "could hardly find a better way" of reducing their chances for membership by speaking up against France.

    The war of words heightened tension between the two sides as leaders of the European Union aspirants arrived today in Brussels for a briefing on the emergency summit meeting, which they were not invited to attend despite appeals by Britain and Spain.

    That tension has grown steadily as Central and East European countries have sided with the United States over how to resolve the Iraq crisis. France and Germany have resisted the American push for military action, leading Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld last month to chastise the two as "old Europe," out of step with the "new Europe" made up of former Soviet-bloc countries.

    The divide broke into the open when eight European leaders, including European Union candidates Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic, signed a letter of support for Washington's position in January. That letter was followed by another signed by an additional 10 countries, including seven European Union candidates.

    The controversy has highlighted France's ambivalence toward the European Union's enlargement, which it has long feared would weaken the Europe's power on the world stage, or at least weaken France's ability to dominate it.

    Jacques Rupnik, a leading French expert on Central and Eastern Europe, said the French are beginning to feel that they perhaps ought not to have let the Easterners join the European Union after all.

    "There is a lot of irritation in France about the alignment of the candidates toward the U.S. position," Mr. Rupnik said, adding there is suspicion in France that the poorer European countries are attracted only by European Union economic support but that "for the serious stuff they address themselves to Washington."
    Jonathan
  11. #91  
    Originally posted by ToolkiT

    Can you paste that article here, I'm not a member of the NYTimes
    You can register for free if you want. They just want your name and email address.


    The story has been lengthened.
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  12. #92  
    Originally posted by ToolkiT
    Sorry to interprete it the wrong way.. it sounded like a sarcastic remark...
    No problem--I probably should've put a smiley face or something. I am earnest in my praise for VC/TC and the civility therein.
  13. #93  
    here's the full text of the article as of today:

    Chirac Scolding Angers Nations That Back U.S.
    By CRAIG S. SMITH


    BRUSSELS, Feb. 18 "New Europe" barked back at "old Europe" today, deepening the continental rift over Iraq after President Jacques Chirac of France told Central and Eastern European countries to keep their views on Iraq to themselves or risk losing their chance to join the European Union.

    "We thought we were preparing for war with Saddam Hussein and not Jacques Chirac," said Alexandr Vondra, deputy foreign minister of the Czech Republic, one of the European Union applicants that have drawn French ire by openly supporting the United States and Britain in the Iraqi crisis. Mr. Vondra said his country and its immediate neighbors "definitely cannot remain silent," as Mr. Chirac advised on Monday.

    The French president, in an unusually emotional outburst in Brussels after the European Union meeting on Monday about Iraq, derided the Central and Eastern European countries that have signed letters expressing their support for the American policy on Iraq for being "badly brought up," and having missed "an opportunity to keep quiet."

    All 13 candidates today endorsed the joint declaration on Iraq issued on Monday by the 15 European leaders, warning Saddam Hussein that he had "one last chance" to disarm and vowing to "avoid new lines of division" over European policy on Iraq.

    But divisions exist. The war of words highlighted not only disagreement over Iraq, but also France's struggle for dominance in European affairs in the face of an enlarging European Union whose incoming members are historically beholden to the United States.

    France has long been concerned that the former Communist countries, indebted to the United States for liberation from Soviet domination in the cold war, would turn out to be a sort of Trojan horse bringing America's influence into the union.

    "For France, the European Union is a way for it to remain a big power in the world because it can use Europe to act and to have a certain influence in world affairs that it can't have anymore on its own," said Gilles Lepesant, a French expert on European identity and Eastern Europe. France fears that expanding the European Union membership will erode its influence and weaken Europe's position as a potential counterweight to American power.

    The broader European Union membership is also more likely to produce a decentralized organization that leaves much power with national governments, rather than the more centralized, cohesive union favored by France and Germany.

    The tension across Europe has grown steadily as Central and Eastern European countries have sided with the United States over how to resolve the Iraq crisis. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld last month chastised France and Germany for opposing the United States, calling them "old Europe," out of step with the "new Europe" made up of former Soviet bloc countries.

    While France this month recalled its gratitude to the United States for liberation from Germany more than half a century ago, the gratitude of former Communist states toward Washington seems far more immediate and, for now, binding. Even once rock-solid bonds like that between Germany and the United States have been undermined in recent months.

    Andrzej Kapiszewski, professor of sociology and political science at Krakow University in Poland, recalled that even under communism, America remained a benevolent presence. "I'm from Krakow, and practically every single person had some relative in the United States," Mr. Kapiszewski said.

    There is little sense of obligation to Western Europe, though, and some irritation at the long, difficult negotiations insisted on by Western Europe for membership of the European Union.

    The East-West European divide broke into the open when eight European leaders, including the European Union candidates Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic, signed a letter of support for Washington's position in January. That letter was followed by another signed by 10 more countries, including seven candidates for the European Union.

    The letters reinforced widespread suspicion in France that the poorer European countries are primarily attracted to European Union membership for economic reasons while their political allegiance will remain with Washington.

    "Europe is not a cash register," warned Dominique de Villepin, the French foreign minister, on Sunday.

    In his comments on Monday, Mr. Chirac went on to suggest that opposing France and Germany could hurt candidates for European Union membership. He warned, in particular, that Romania and Bulgaria, the poorest of the thirteen candidates and the two that are still negotiating to enter the bloc in 2007, "could hardly find a better way" of reducing their chances for membership by speaking up against France.

    The French defense minister, Michele Alliot-Marie, echoed Mr. Chirac in Warsaw today, telling her hosts that "it was better to keep silent when you don't know what's going on."

    The comments were rejected across Central and Eastern Europe on Tuesday, suggesting that France will face serious challenges in exerting its influence over an expanded European Union.

    "France has a right to its opinion, and Poland has the right to decide what is good for it," said Adam Rotfeld, deputy foreign minister of Poland, the largest of the candidates for the union. "France should respect that."

    Poland recently angered many European Union members by choosing Lockheed Martin F-16 fighter jets over French and Anglo-Swedish rivals.

    The tensions between Poland and France are particularly notable because the two countries have traditionally been close. But President Bush is clearly regarded, at least for now, as a better friend to the Poles than President Chirac.

    Charles Gati, a professor in European Studies at the School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University, said nationalist sentiment in countries that are candidates for the European Union could now rise.

    "This will strengthen nationalist arguments," Mr. Gati said. "They will say the West is not only selfish but divided, and we can't count on it."

    Sorin Ionita, director of the Romanian Academic Society, a leading think tank in Bucharest, said: "If France wants to lose all the sympathy it has in the East, this is the way to do it, to say you little guys will have to listen to us forever. You don't hear this kind of language from the United States."

    Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain, who initiated one of the controversial letters supporting Washington, insisted today that the candidate countries should not be silenced.

    "They have as much right to speak up as Great Britain or France or any other member of the European Union today," Mr. Blair said.


    Why isn't anything ever just black and white?
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  14. #94  
    I don't like France's attitude... but I can understand their fear a bit...
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  15. #95  
    Originally posted by ToolkiT
    I don't like France's attitude... but I can understand their fear a bit...
    I agree. It seems like fear is the pervading emotion ruling most decisions we see being made (on all sides).
    "I am a debtor both to Greeks and to Barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish."
  16. #96  
    Originally posted by BobbyMike


    I agree. It seems like fear is the pervading emotion ruling most decisions we see being made (on all sides).
    Sad but true... fear is a very poor guideline...
    What the world needs to do is stop for a second an get their priorities straight and forget about all the politics...
    Don't we all really want the same thing? A safe, happy, prosperous living environment? Given the worlds resources this should be possible.. given human nature its not that easy
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  17. #97  
    Originally posted by ToolkiT
    Don't we all really want the same thing? A safe, happy, prosperous living environment?
    Actually, I really don't believe that we all really want the same thing. Some poeple want a safe, happy prosperous living environment. Some people only want money, some people want to be religious martyrs. Some people don't care if the world is a "safe" environment....and, unfortunately, too many don't care if everyone else's world is "happy."

    I guess everyone's "want" for the world is usually secondary to everyone's "want" for themselves. Which, given that everyone is an individual, I don't think there's any way it could be any different. It doesn't make things any easier, but I guess that's just sort of the way it is

    (until that group of freaks makes clones of us all...)
  18. #98  
    Originally posted by ToolkiT

    Don't we all really want the same thing? A safe, happy, prosperous living environment? Given the worlds resources this should be possible.. given human nature its not that easy
    No.

    The government of France, for example, based on Chirac's outburst and the French Ambassador to Bulgaria informing Bulgarians that they need to "think like Europeans" (http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...questid=39707, towards the end) clearly sees the European Union as the new French Empire.
  19. #99  
    Originally posted by ToolkiT
    [...] Don't we all really want the same thing? A safe, happy, prosperous living environment? Given the worlds resources this should be possible.. given human nature its not that easy
    If we really all wanted the same thing, it would _be_ human nature, and would be a foregone conclusion.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  20. #100  
    Originally posted by Toby
    It... is... ALIVE!!!

    Originally posted by Toby
    If we really all wanted the same thing, it would _be_ human nature, and would be a foregone conclusion.
    How true!

    The real problem is that we do all want the same thing... as long as it's our way!
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...

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