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  1.    #21  
    Btw, I'm not saying that there's no need for accountability on the government's part. But 'occupiers' blaming everybody but themselves for their own shortcomings or perceived inability to be a productive and integral piece of our society is plainly immature, and nothing less.

    They sound exactly like my teenage stepchildren, but they're just teenagers, they have an excuse.
    Last edited by residentcomedian; 10/29/2011 at 05:29 AM.
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  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    I don't see the need for the government to enforce "income equality", but the other two are valid concerns. The government can try to ensure that people aren't illegally denied opportunities to succeed but it can't ensure that those people will succeed. Remember, "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", not "life, liberty, and the guarantee of happiness".

    The problem with the occupy crowd is that they don't seem to have any cohesive message or, less, any feasible answers. No, abolishing all debt and providing free housing for everyone aren't going to happen.
    Well the government is already forcing income inequality. There is a reason the top 1%'s income grew by 285% from 1979-2007 and the bottom 20% grew by 18% and it wasn't because of hard work.

    I agree that the OWS folks have a diluted message but I do think there are some some consistent messages that have come out involving issues of income inequality and Wall Street/Govt collusion.
  3. #23  
    Are we talking about the same biased leftist media that slams the Tea Party every chance it gets? The majority of, but not all, Occupiers are so dysfuntional that even the local biased leftist media is having a field day. I DID GO BY one of the two local camps...but I didn't have to talk to anyone...they had it all spelled out for me with their pretty signs and vitriol spewing from their mouths like blackened tar. I'm no where near the top 1% but I sure don't want to be included in their 99%.

    I agree that it is their constitutional right to express their opinion and I support then in that 100%...many of my family DIED supporting that right; however I do not support the local movement that is violating local ordinaces restricting the use of local parks during certain hours, without permits, without proper sanitation, without waivers and then whining to the local city council that it's just not fair (see...there's that word again that they like so much) that they should have to go to court and pay fines for breaking the law. gee...they want fairness and equity but don't think that the rules should apply to them.

    ...kinda kills any sympathy I might have had for their cause.
    AZTouchpad
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  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by AZTouchpad View Post
    Are we talking about the same biased leftist media that slams the Tea Party every chance it gets? The majority of, but not all, Occupiers are so dysfuntional that even the local biased leftist media is having a field day. I DID GO BY one of the two local camps...but I didn't have to talk to anyone...they had it all spelled out for me with their pretty signs and vitriol spewing from their mouths like blackened tar. I'm no where near the top 1% but I sure don't want to be included in their 99%.

    I agree that it is their constitutional right to express their opinion and I support then in that 100%...many of my family DIED supporting that right; however I do not support the local movement that is violating local ordinaces restricting the use of local parks during certain hours, without permits, without proper sanitation, without waivers and then whining to the local city council that it's just not fair (see...there's that word again that they like so much) that they should have to go to court and pay fines for breaking the law. gee...they want fairness and equity but don't think that the rules should apply to them.

    ...kinda kills any sympathy I might have had for their cause.
    Whats worse.....Occupying a park and disobeying local ordinances or conning your clients into financial schemes where you bet against them in order to rid them of their hard earned money and then getting billions to cover their losses doing so and in turn bringing the 99% to the brink of a depression? If you aren't in the 1% then you ARE in the 99% whether you want not be or not. What was spelled out to you via pretty signs and vitoral that is in any way worse then what happened to everyone in 2008?
  5. #25  
    You know what? Screw politics.

    I want to code.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Superjudge View Post
    Whats worse.....Occupying a park and disobeying local ordinances or conning your clients into financial schemes where you bet against them in order to rid them of their hard earned money and then getting billions to cover their losses doing so and in turn bringing the 99% to the brink of a depression? If you aren't in the 1% then you ARE in the 99% whether you want not be or not. What was spelled out to you via pretty signs and vitoral that is in any way worse then what happened to everyone in 2008?
    A lot of people won't get what you just said, or prefer to put their fingers in their ears and start humming.
  7.    #27  
    There was nothing hieroglyphic about what he just said. Jeez.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by residentcomedian View Post
    There was nothing hieroglyphic about what he just said. Jeez.
    There's a thin line between Dunning and Kruger.
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Superjudge View Post
    Well the government is already forcing income inequality. There is a reason the top 1%'s income grew by 285% from 1979-2007 and the bottom 20% grew by 18% and it wasn't because of hard work.
    Exactly. But if the answer is more laws and regulations (presumably to enforce fairness), then expect more of the same. The answer out of income inequality is not in the pocket of someone else.
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  10. #30  
    1 million percent legit.

    now end thread.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  11. #31  
    Proud Veer and Touchpad owner
  12. groovy's Avatar
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    #32  
    The occupation movement is not about redistribution of wealth? That might come as a surprise to the people who wrote https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/. They're calling for free health care for everyone, elimination of student loan debt. Who would pay for it all? Yes, those greedy corporations. Of course, that money will come from all our 401k plans, but who cares?
  13. #33  
    You misunderstood the nuance: Anonymouses claim that if power is not redistributed so that Coraporations stop making the rules, a simple redistribution of ressources is just postponing a new crisis like the one we are seeing today.

    And actually they're right: Corporations amount of power and greedy politians who are willingly taking advantages in nature and goods make the situation of the world a real disaster. The best exemple I can find (since it demonstrate horror disaster and danger of wealth with power) is the Fukushima disaster: TEPCO (who own the defunct nuclear plant) is a very very reach and powerfull corporation who willingly lies to people to make money and avoid any law issues. They work with the japanese government who certainly take advantages in goods and nature (maybe political campains, but truely I don't know) and say to people that nothing alarmful is going out from the Fukushima disaster (which, I recall to you, had not the appropriate security measures in place).

    Now, there's 27.1 quadrillons becquerels of Cesium-137 released in the air and into the Pacific Ocean (beware Californians, Mexicans, peruvians, Columbians and all of you on this coast, you'll be the first to know how it is to eat radiactive sea food !!). There's also a great (dangerous one) possibility that the core of the plant is going to melt because it is expansionaly heating. Thus, the ground will liquify and enter the water table, which will boil and emit radioactive vapor into what is right now a protected natural environment, where people live in a really confined territory. Not to mention that those vapor emitments will continue during years and years releasing radiactivity in the air, which will propagate through the whole planet !

    I don't want to be alarmist here (well, a little bit) but I recall you that Western Countries like in Europe and North America mostly relies on Nuclear power, and that such a disaster could happen anywhere at any time. Those Nuclear plants are owned by wealthy corporations who actually **pay** our presidents campaigns so that the new governments accept to continue using nuclear energy whereas we today know how to produce power with green or safe technologies.

    This is those kind of corporations and government we want to fight. Those who act without caring about the people they touch and make money on. Those who think that everything is due to them and that the poors are only a working power to exploit.

    Just see the Grapes of Wrath from John Ford to know what I'm talking about.

    So maybe a redistribution of ressource would be great in the first time, but it would not eliminate the true problem: that there are people out here who try to find ways to make more money and have more power on the back (the body ?) of other people, and that those wealthy gentlemen are working hard so that the actual situation of the world stays that way.

    I could continue again and again, as I saw and heard things some of you wouldn't even believe, but I'm sure I already took a lot of you time. So my advice to you is to be carefull and to not listen to much (at all?) what they say on tv...
    Proud Veer and Touchpad owner
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    #34  
    Wow that was a long post.

    . . NS4G . . CM7 . .
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by grasshoper View Post
    Just see the Grapes of Wrath from John Ford to know what I'm talking about.

    Better yet, read the book by John Steinbeck
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by grasshoper View Post
    I don't want to be alarmist here (well, a little bit) but I recall you that Western Countries like in Europe and North America mostly relies on Nuclear power, and that such a disaster could happen anywhere at any time. Those Nuclear plants are owned by wealthy corporations who actually **pay** our presidents campaigns so that the new governments accept to continue using nuclear energy whereas we today know how to produce power with green or safe technologies.
    "Such a disaster could happen anywhere at anytime."

    Now consider to how many situations this statement applies to things in your daily life: driving places, flying, etc, and consider what the chances are of something like that happening, and how much lower the chances of a nuclear disaster are.

    Yeah, not so bad now, is it? Nuclear is absolutely the answer for now and for a long, long, long time to come, political BS aside. Let's be honest: giant pinwheels and solar panels aren't going to do enough.
  17. #37  
    "Such a disaster could happen anywhere at anytime."

    Now consider to how many situations this statement applies to things in your daily life: driving places, flying, etc, and consider what the chances are of something like that happening, and how much lower the chances of a nuclear disaster are.

    Yeah, not so bad now, is it? Nuclear is absolutely the answer for now and for a long, long, long time to come, political BS aside. Let's be honest: giant pinwheels and solar panels aren't going to do enough.
    Yeah, but a plane crashing and a nuclear plant blowing... Ahem... Not the same result !

    You may not be well aware of the situation regarding nuclear technology. I say that because my aunt works on a nuclear plant and it happens that every now and then she and all the personel are asked to go to a special facility near the plant, stay there for some time and spit as much as they can. Why ? Well, because of the nuclear leaks that happen now and then, simply as that.

    And as far as I know, it is not the only case of leaks from nuclear plant that are said to be "harmless". And here in France, we are told to be the #1 on nuclear technology (we even sent nuclear scientifics to help with Fukushima).

    That, and the fact that nuclear junks have no place to go. People are still wondering where they'll throw away their junks in the near future.

    I may recall to your mind that radioactivity in the atmosphere cause cancer and malformations if they are in too much quatity. Also, if I follow your statement above, don't you think that two nuclear crisis in two decades are bigger matters than 50 plane accidents in the same period of time ?

    Yes, the chances of nuclear explosions are thinner than plane or car accidents in the same period of time, but nuclear disaster are concerns for the **whole world and humainity** at the same time !

    Oh, wait, it's ok: until now only japanese and ukrainian have had problems with major nuclear disasters, so it's not of our concern !

    But... Wait... Our governments are making nuclear tests in the ocean and in some unknown islands somewhere. Still, it's not in our lap so we still are not concerned !

    And still, studies have proved that oceans are more charged with radioactivity than 50 years ago. Radioactivity coming from Tchernobyl and Fukushima spread through the atmosphere and appears in our laps through clouds and rains. We may not be able to eat red thuna anymore because most of the recolt was done on the japanese coasts which are now, well... Radioactive. But who eat red thuna anyway ? And who can afford going to Japan??

    Ok, well. So my point is that nuclear crisis are rare (but still, it depends on how you see things, because one nuclear crisis by decade is not rare to me, at earth's scale at least) but when they're here they do a **lot** more damage than any plane crash or car accident. To the humanity, to the earth, to the wildlife... Wait... To everything?

    And to finish my statement: we **do not** know how to handle a nuclear crisis. Companies **do not** spend the right amount of money to secure nuclear plants enough. Companies **do not** care about human loss if they can earn money on it. And last but not least : if too much radioactivity is released in the atmosphere, we **do not** know how to clean it or how to cure ourselves from it's damages.

    Nuclear power may be good, but for the time being it's far too dangerous and hazardous for us mere humans. At least how it's handled by corporations and governments.
    Proud Veer and Touchpad owner
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    A lot of people won't get what you just said, or prefer to put their fingers in their ears and start humming.
    Isn't that the truth!
  19. #39  
    Who the attention should be thrown on is the White House and government officials in general. People complain that business are swaying things in politics to their benefit, yadda yadda but that is simply not the case.

    Corporate America is sitting so cozy with the government because of government intervention. The government is the entity with the power in that relationship. If our elected officials did what Americans voted them to do instead of scheming on how to extend their lap of luxury then some businesses could not get away with the things they have been.

    Wake up people! These occupiers are wasting time directing fault with the wrong organization. It's not Wall St that caused this problem; it's all the boys in Washington sitting pretty on their bonuses, pensions, stock options, vacations homes, etc and on the taxpayers dime!
    I am, therefore I think
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by clayclay350 View Post
    that is simply not the case.
    You stopped making sense here. There is no 'simply'.
    You say one thing, I say another. Saying things are 'simply' this or that, so you're right, is not an argument.

    God just simply exists. So do weapons of mass destruction. They do. I said 'simply'!!

    (apart from that, the rest of your post does make sense of course )
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