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  1.    #1  
    Since some seem to be picketing at this forum's marketplace, scrutinizing all Pre 2 transactions for possible dev origin, let's create a thread to pursue this discussion.

    I say sell the darn phone, you owe HP nothing, but I'm totally ignorant as to any fineprint that might be relevant and enforcable.
  2. #2  
    I think the developer pre is a provision from HP to try and help stimulate app development.
    So if HP sent someone a Pre because the person is in the webOS development program, then yes, it's pretty stinky.
    Illegal? I don't think so.
    It surely doesn't help those who needed/wanted it for legit webOS app development.

    Do we automatically assume the person selling the pre got it for that purpose and is instead selling it? No.

    If we are interested in buying one of these devices, then pm the member and ask them?

    Here's what I posted in one of the threads:
    It's a question that can be asked via Private Messaging by those that may be interested in purchasing.
    So that's the answer, if you have any further questions regarding the ethics of the seller, ask them via PM.

    If ones want to ask about the condition of the device, or what else might be included, or shipping questions, or if he'll accept a lower offer, fine.

    If there is no difference between the developer's Gsm Unlocked Pre2, and any other Gsm Unlocked Pre2, then any further questions are about ethics.
    Just call me Berd.
  3. #3  
    That said,

    We ask that this thread stays civil.
    Do not insult one another.

    Also,
    This thread will not be used to question/accuse any particular member.

    And most importantly,
    This thread will not be used to ask/question/argue/complain about P|C's way of handling this concern.
    This will NOT be a thread to discuss how we think P|C should handle this.

    Those questions can be addressed to Dieter personally, and if he so wishes, he may post his reply here.
    Just call me Berd.
  4.    #4  
    Yes, all fine!
    But what about the fine print? Is there any? Is an explicit or implicit contract in place for these devices.
    I think I read somewhere a Dev was granted permission by HP to sell the device.
  5. #5  
    That I wouldn't know.
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    That I wouldn't know.
    Then what do you consider stinky?
    Can't the free Pre be considered a stimulus for all the hard work already put in by devs? One could argue they already have one or multiple devices. If they previously bought a Pre 2, it may certainly make more sense to sell the one they get from HP (this is HP funding the purchase of their first Pre).
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    Then what do you consider stinky?
    Can't the free Pre be considered a stimulus for all the hard work already put in by devs? One could argue they already have one or multiple devices. If they previously bought a Pre 2, it may certainly make more sense to sell the one they get from HP (this is HP funding the purchase of their first Pre).
    Yes, all those reasons wouldn't be stinky.

    I surely wouldn't assume anybody selling an unlocked Pre2 to be stinky.

    However; the phone doesn't just get sent to them, they have to apply for it. Apply to HP that they are a developer wanting a Pre2 for development.

    I see now that my phrasing above regarding 'stinky'
    could be misunderstood.
    What I meant to say was;
    If HP sent someone a Pre because the person is in the webOS development program, and they sent their application in saying they needed a Pre for development, when actually they didn't, then yes, it's pretty stinky.

    But you are correct, maybe after they applied for one, they acquired one by some other means.
  8.    #8  
    If no dotted lines are signed, I wouldn't consider it any stinkier than getting a gift from an acquaintance and selling it on ebay. Possibly frowned upon by the people with 'higher morals'.

    HP: "You're getting this present because I think you deserve it"
    DEV: "I'm selling it because money's worth more than your present"
    HP: "I don't care. I make billions."
    DEV: "Cool. Thanks dude."
    HP: "I wouldn't have sold this device anyway, so what's it to me? A write-off."
  9. #9  
    Do I think it's illegal or morally wrong to sell it? No...although if you didn't pay for it, trying to sell it for $350 is a crap move. Especially since you had to APPLY to get the device if you haven't developed an app the first on it nor plan on doing so, then you definitely don't deserve it and basically you're no different than a scalper. So I wouldn't prevent you from selling it, but secretly I would think you were a ******.

    Now if you were at a dev conference where HP passed those out like hotcakes whether you were a developer or not, you could try to sell it for $500 and I wouldn't bat an eye.
    screwdestiny
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  10.    #10  
    Doesn't the dev program have entry requirements?

    If HP is not particularly picky who they hand these out to at a dev conference, then what's the big deal? It's a crap move they didn't get me one.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    Doesn't the dev program have entry requirements?

    If HP is not particularly picky who they hand these out to at a dev conference, then what's the big deal? It's a crap move they didn't get me one.
    No, there are people who have been getting them just by saying they are going to develop an app and giving some details about it. You don't actually have to have an app in the catalog to get one.

    To me it seems if you're actually going to apply for one because you said you were going to do something and you didn't do it or you said you needed it when you didn't, then that's basically a lie you perpetuated whereas if you literally were given it, no questions or strings attached, then it's truly a "gift".

    Calling it morally wrong is a bit strong, my morals are pretty loose anyway, so it's just scammy. I mean, if it were me I would either sell an old device or sell this one for veeeery cheap. Since as a developer you can buy a developer device for $250 with the coupon, selling it for anything over $250 is kind of profiteering.
    screwdestiny
    PSN Twitter Last.FM
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by malpha View Post
    No, there are people who have been getting them just by saying they are going to develop an app and giving some details about it. You don't actually have to have an app in the catalog to get one.

    To me it seems if you're actually going to apply for one because you said you were going to do something and you didn't do it or you said you needed it when you didn't, then that's basically a lie you perpetuated whereas if you literally were given it, no questions or strings attached, then it's truly a "gift".

    Calling it morally wrong is a bit strong, my morals are pretty loose anyway, so it's just scammy. I mean, if it were me I would either sell an old device or sell this one for veeeery cheap. Since as a developer you can buy a developer device for $250 with the coupon, selling it for anything over $250 is kind of profiteering.
    I totally agree with most of that.
    Lately though, the default first question people in the Martketplace seem to get is "IS THIS A FREE DEV DEVICCE YOU TRYING TO SELL ).

    That's a kinda hmmm-ish thing to do. Berd gave a very eloquent rant the other day
  13. Spinfusor's Avatar
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    #13  
    If a lot of people sell their developer Pre 2's, it might make HP less willing to give them out for free.
    "Visits? Well that would indicate visitors."
    "Future events such as these will affect you in the future."
  14. #14  
    I think you should at least make an app before putting up your Pre 2 for sale. It has to be a good app, not one of those spam app books or an app that just uses a web view widget.
  15. #15  
    It would be helpful to interested members if a developer that has been given one to weigh in and tell us what the terms are that come with the phone. I have to believe there were restrictions, as apparently there were with the discount coupons.
    Last edited by Cantaffordit; 03/26/2011 at 09:04 PM. Reason: clarified
  16. #16  
    Selling a Pre 2 from HP is like selling your wedding ring and asking in a public forum if there is anything wrong with that.
    My answer would be:
    Wrong once for selling the trust HP gave you.
    Wrong twice for making this public looking for some sympathy.

    2 cents

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    It would be helpful to interested members if a developer that has been given one to weigh in and tell us what the terms are that come with the phone. I have to believe there were restrictions, as apparently there were with the discount coupons.
    Yes, there were 'terms' included on the questionnaire spreadsheet that was sent to Developers requesting a complimentary device. Here is the text (emphasis is added):

    NOTE: This promotion provides qualified developers with a complimentary unlocked UMTS version of the new Palm Pre 2 Smartphone for testing and development purposes and is good while supplies last. Not for resale and non-transferable.
    That should answer this question, for those wanting clarification.
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 03/27/2011 at 12:12 AM. Reason: fixed quoted text
  18. #18  
    I'm pretty sure those terms were for the application. I don't think a Pre 2 is "transferable". Anyway, as a Dev who got a free Pre 2 (and used it to make a Sprint Pre 2, in case anyone was feeling accusatory) I have absolutely no qualms with someone selling their Developer Device. Personally, I used the free Pre 2 to make a Sprint Pre 2 and now I use my unlocked GSM Pre Minus as a dev phone. I really don't think its up to random people on a forum to judge the "morality" of someone's decision, PARTICULARLY when its not directly affecting them.

    I find it atrocious that people are trolling the marketplace dropping their 2 cents on to peoples' threads. If you have infallible proof that someone is directly selling their development device, sure go right ahead and impose your opinions, but to accuse other people with no prior proof/history and just an assumption is terrible.

    That's just my opinion though. At least I'm not imposing it on people and hijacking threads with it.
  19. #19  
    ^ Absolutely Perfect!

    Thank You!

    This topic has been satisfied.
    <<closed>>
    Just call me Berd.

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