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  1.    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    The problems of the US and the West, go a long ways back. Further than either Bush. Was it Teddy who said walk softly and carry a big stick? The problem with that is, for the most part, no one in the West has been walking softly for a long time. Frankly after a few discussions with a number of Muslim friends, there is nothing we can do or say. To say Obama is a wimp or imply it, is wrong. He is just not performing knee jerk actions. I agree with the concept that you can not single out Muslims in regards to this new Mcarthy era witch hunt. A lot of people have died at the hands of good ol home grown terrorists, Oklahoma anyone. Kersch, there are a lot of them, including some extremely radicalized militias.
    I agree with you Groovy, Hillary is a good choice for your international diplomacy.
    As to Iran and the bomb, hell, one way or another they will get one. Be it from North Korea, or some rouge Russian general, etc etc.
    Do I think George Bush JR was evil, NO, he was stupid, and controlled by his VP and his companies.
    What do you mean that after discussions with a few Muslim friends there is nothing we can do or say? That sounds interesting, please expand (seriously).

    I agree that Iran will get a bomb one way or another, my concern is them having the ability to make multiple bombs. It's bad enough that they could explode one, or even threaten with one, but imagine if they have 4, 5, 6, or 10 nukes? It is one scary thought and I think it is likely too late to stop. I have no idea what Bush was doing behind the scene (along with Israel) to try and slow them down, but it apparently didn't work. So do we just say, rats, and move on or do something drastic before they do?

    As for Prez Bush being controlled by his VP, wasn't Chaney a bit annoyed with Bush near the end of his term? As for him being "stupid", well, that is your opinion just as it is my opinion that obama is a wimp. You know what....I'm going to say something good about obama.....at least he did finally realize he couldn't and shouldn't close down Gitmo. Now, he was likely just saying what his liberal base wanted to hear in the election about that, but I think he also probably didn't realize who was being held there until he became Prez and so I'll give him credit for changing his mind on that....at least for now.
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  2. #42  
    So let me get this straight...

    Unions are having it "too good" and should make a sacrifice for the betterment of our country and economy? The Wisconsin public unions have agrees to 7% pay cuts and paying into their own benefits but that is not good enough? They must lose their right to collectively bargain as well?

    How come when the the Bush tax cuts were set to expire, and the rich were to pay an extra 4% in taxes, that was deemed socialist? How is controlling the majority of our nations wealth not considered "having it too good?" Oh yeah, I forgot. they are creating jobs.......in China, Mexico, India, Taiwan...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    How come when the the Bush tax cuts were set to expire, and the rich were to pay an extra 4% in taxes, that was deemed socialist?
    Trick question right? Because that's what fascists do?
    "Socialism" is their version of cry wolf.
  4.    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    So let me get this straight...

    Unions are having it "too good" and should make a sacrifice for the betterment of our country and economy? The Wisconsin public unions have agrees to 7% pay cuts and paying into their own benefits but that is not good enough? They must lose their right to collectively bargain as well?
    Yes....the party is over. Time for public union folks to come and join the real world.
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  5.    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    How come when the the Bush tax cuts were set to expire, and the rich were to pay an extra 4% in taxes, that was deemed socialist? How is controlling the majority of our nations wealth not considered "having it too good?" Oh yeah, I forgot. they are creating jobs.......in China, Mexico, India, Taiwan...
    Why is the answer of liberals always raise taxes? Why not reduce costs? Did you hear senator harry reid crying about losing the "cowboy poetry festival" and it possibly not being funded? Really? REALLY? The cowboy poetry festival might have to be cut? Holy Cow(boy). This is but one example of things that aren't worth having taxes raised for, but should be cut. But, we have to have people with balls in DC to attack the more expensive programs like Medicare and Social Security. I'm under the age of 55....one quick and easy fix would be to delay when I can get social security....we all must sacrifice....and that includes public union members.

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  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Yes....the party is over. Time for public union folks to come and join the real world.
    When will the party be over for the wealthy? When do they have to come back and join the real world? You do they are sucking more money out of our economy than unions right?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Why is the answer of liberals always raise taxes? Why not reduce costs?
    When your country is at war you generally do not cut taxes, you raise them to offset the costs of battle. We are in 2 wars....

    Did you hear senator harry reid crying about losing the "cowboy poetry festival" and it possibly not being funded? Really? REALLY? The cowboy poetry festival might have to be cut? Holy Cow(boy). This is but one example of things that aren't worth having taxes raised for, but should be cut.
    I couldn't possibly care less about some festival. But you are also advicating the cutting of what others have earned. Why not go after the bonuses from CEO's as well? What about the bonuses that were given out with stimulus money?

    But, we have to have people with balls in DC to attack the more expensive programs like Medicare and Social Security. I'm under the age of 55....one quick and easy fix would be to delay when I can get social security....we all must sacrifice....and that includes public union members.
    Fact: Congress planned ahead in 1983 for the retirement of the baby boomers. The system has been collecting extra payroll taxes since then. For example, in 2008 Social Security took in $49 billion more in payroll taxes and $131 billion more in interest and other income than it paid out in benefits and expenses.

    That foresight has enabled Social Security to amass a $2.3 trillion surplus now, and by 2024, the surplus will peak at $4.2 trillion. There’s plenty to keep paying benefits with no cuts for decades.

    Also, if you are still worried about it (even though it is a false argument) make the rich pay their full share of social security. As it is now they only have to pay up to their first couple hundred grand or so.
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  8.    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Fact: Congress planned ahead in 1983 for the retirement of the baby boomers. The system has been collecting extra payroll taxes since then. For example, in 2008 Social Security took in $49 billion more in payroll taxes and $131 billion more in interest and other income than it paid out in benefits and expenses.

    That foresight has enabled Social Security to amass a $2.3 trillion surplus now, and by 2024, the surplus will peak at $4.2 trillion. There’s plenty to keep paying benefits with no cuts for decades.

    Also, if you are still worried about it (even though it is a false argument) make the rich pay their full share of social security. As it is now they only have to pay up to their first couple hundred grand or so.
    LOL....umm....that is just totally false. The funds you say get put aside is just plain untrue. In fact, last year social security paid OUT more than it took in. I found many links to back up my claims of Social Security being in trouble, but I knew you would likely "not allow" most of the links for political reasons, but how about a link from the NY Times?: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/31/yo...ecurity&st=cse

    Here is another link that you'll probably dispute, but: Social Security trust fund solvency is a myth / LJWorld.com

    Bottom line....we can all wait until Social Security is completely dead, and then try and figure things out....or.....we can do it right and make adjustments now. The democrats would rather spend, spend, spend, spend, and spend now on things like the Cowboy Poetry Festival and not make tough decisions, while hopefully the Republicans (I admit, I don't know if they even have the balls to do it) will go for adjustments now. Fingers crossed.

    By the way....the "wealthy" only paid FICA on the first $106,800 of income in 2010, and in 2011 I believe it is the same. Now, they will only receive benefits at retirement based on that figure, $106,800 (this generally increases each year, and therefore there would be an averaged figure at retirement). I only mention this because your comment "make the rich pay their fair share" implies they are receiving more than they should. They don't get social security based on their total income. So despite your comment, they do pay their "fair" share for what they get in return.
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  9. groovy's Avatar
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    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Also, if you are still worried about it (even though it is a false argument) make the rich pay their full share of social security. As it is now they only have to pay up to their first couple hundred grand or so.
    And how much will they get out of it?
  10.    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    And how much will they get out of it?
    You see Groovy, anyone that makes over $106,800 should be willing to pay additional tax just so others can have more in retirement. It's only "fair". And if I hadn't said it already, contrats to the Wisconsin Gov and state Republicans for standing up to the thug union guys. Granted, they (WI Republicans) have had to endure death threats (what happened to playing nice that obama called for? LOL), but isn't that what the unions are all about? Making threats? I wonder if the state of WI can send the clean up bill to the union leaders?
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  11. #51  
    has anyone mentioned that the michiganlegislature did basically the same thing the democratic congress did to pass obamacare? Only there were fewer death threats toward congress than are being sent to the michigan republicans.

    that begs a couple of questions.

    1) has davidra stopped by to denounce the violence and notice that it isn't just the right that has a few nuts?

    2) aren't death threats and threats to overthrow considered terroristic threats, as well as treason?
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    LOL....umm....that is just totally false. The funds you say get put aside is just plain untrue. In fact, last year social security paid OUT more than it took in. I found many links to back up my claims of Social Security being in trouble, but I knew you would likely "not allow" most of the links for political reasons, but how about a link from the NY Times?: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/31/yo...ecurity&st=cse

    Here is another link that you'll probably dispute, but: Social Security trust fund solvency is a myth / LJWorld.com
    LMAO LMAO LMAO I am not disputing your articles for their sources but because they are opinion pieces!!! So opinions are now facts?

    Sorry I am posting actual independent studies and NOT opinion pieces but I am sure you find some sort of hidden socialist agenda in it...

    CRS looks at solvency status of Social Security trust funds - 10/12/10

    Bottom line....we can all wait until Social Security is completely dead, and then try and figure things out....or.....we can do it right and make adjustments now. The democrats would rather spend, spend, spend, spend, and spend now on things like the Cowboy Poetry Festival and not make tough decisions, while hopefully the Republicans (I admit, I don't know if they even have the balls to do it) will go for adjustments now. Fingers crossed.
    Yeah, why spend a few hundred thousand on a festival when you can dole out BILLIONS to corporations that took that money to hand out to CEOs and move jobs to China. Keep worrying about the big picture there....
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
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  13. groovy's Avatar
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    You see Groovy, anyone that makes over $106,800 should be willing to pay additional tax just so others can have more in retirement. It's only "fair".
    That's why I asked the question. If the answer to that is, the filthy rich should pay the same percentage of their wages as those who make less than the cap then I would ask, is that really as fair as it sounds?

    Oh, and if anyone really wants to get into "who pays more than whom" game, I'll tell them right now that if they're an "average Joe" blue collar worker (or even white collar worker), I pay at least twice as much, based on my current situation, as they do. That's a fact. Given that the actuarial tables don't really tilt in my direction, that means I'm contributing much more as a percentage of what I will ever probably receive than most people.
    Last edited by groovy; 03/12/2011 at 10:21 PM.
  14. #54  
    I'm with you, OP!
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    You see Groovy, anyone that makes over $106,800 should be willing to pay additional tax just so others can have more in retirement. It's only "fair".
    Oh, but the retirement that the unions have negotiated is NOT fair? Do you know how a pension works?

    And if I hadn't said it already, contrats to the Wisconsin Gov and state Republicans for standing up to the thug union guys.
    Ah yes, union thugs... School teachers and janitors are big bad UNION THUGS...

    Granted, they (WI Republicans) have had to endure death threats (what happened to playing nice that obama called for? LOL),
    So how is that different from the t-baggers showing up to rallies with guns and signs that read "We came unarmed this time"?

    but isn't that what the unions are all about? Making threats?
    WOW You are not even trying anymore...

    I wonder if the state of WI can send the clean up bill to the union leaders?
    Hey, Genius. If these unions are so bad, why did they not go after the police and fire dept. unions? Their benefits actually cost MORE than teachers...

    And how is the WI government going to be able to go after those menacing teachers when they are in process of being recalled? That is going for your hero of a Governor, Walker, next year as well. That and 61-70% of WI citizens SUPPORT the unions. What ever happened to serving the needs and wants of the citizens?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    If these unions are so bad, why did they not go after the police and fire dept. unions? Their benefits actually cost MORE than teachers...
    Everyone knows that politics has something (everything) to do with it:

    "teachers' unions typically support Democratic candidates, public-safety officers' unions are likelier than teachers to support Republican candidates"
    Sparing Police, Firefighters Makes Cost-Cutting Tough - Wall Street Journal

    If this was about balancing a budget, the wisconsin state senate could not have voted on it as a non-fiscal bill. No, this is nothing more than a political power grab or as Scott Fitzgerald, the wisconsin GOP senate leader, succinctly put it:

    "If we win this battle, and the money is not there under the auspices of the unions, certainly what you’re going to find is President Obama is going to have a much difficult, much more difficult time getting elected."
    Wisconsin GOP Leader Admits The Truth - Forbes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    And how is the WI government going to be able to go after those menacing teachers when they are in process of being recalled? That is going for your hero of a Governor, Walker, next year as well. That and 61-70% of WI citizens SUPPORT the unions. What ever happened to serving the needs and wants of the citizens?
    Already this political stunt has galvanized millions of demoralized teachers across the nation and its going to backfire badly for the GOP during the next election.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    That's why I asked the question. If the answer to that is, the filthy rich should pay the same percentage of their wages as those who make less than the cap then I would ask, is that really as fair as it sounds?

    Oh, and if anyone really wants to get into "who pays more than whom" game, I'll tell them right now that if they're an "average Joe" blue collar worker (or even white collar worker), I pay at least twice as much, based on my current situation, as they do. That's a fact. Given that the actuarial tables don't really tilt in my direction, that means I'm contributing much more as a percentage of what I will ever probably receive than most people.
    Well, the purpose of govt isn't to establish or enforce "fairness". Beyond that, I'd suggest that the "fair" thing is to stop taxing income, and start taxing consumption. Off topic for here, but if anyone actually reads the book "fair tax" (Amazon.com: The FairTax Book (9780060875411): Neal Boortz, John Linder: Books) you will see a fantastic alternative that eliminates most of what people complain about. Exempt purchases for lower income workers, and tax consumption. It's really a great idea. But it would take soooo much control away from congress and eliminate the need for the IRS - and the IRS now has to exist to enforce obamacare.. wait, what?
  18.    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Oh, but the retirement that the unions have negotiated is NOT fair? Do you know how a pension works?
    Yes...and apparently WI can't afford them anymore without EE's participating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Ah yes, union thugs... School teachers and janitors are big bad UNION THUGS...
    The union thugs making death threats and destroying the WI capital are probably not the teachers, I agree with you there. In fact, the people I see on the news look like hired thugs. We all know they are bringing in people from around the country. I stick by my statement....union thugs.




    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    So how is that different from the t-baggers showing up to rallies with guns and signs that read "We came unarmed this time"?
    LOL, umm, I'll leave you to discuss "t-bagger" rallies. I don't know much about you, but I have not been to nor seen any video from such a rally. Was that in San Fran?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    WOW You are not even trying anymore...
    Sorry....I actually have to work for a living.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Hey, Genius.
    Thanks! I knew eventually you would say something nice about me, and it is appreciated. Unfortunately, I don't think I can return the favor of that compliment.
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  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    The union thugs making death threats and destroying the WI capital are probably not the teachers, I agree with you there. In fact, the people I see on the news look like hired thugs. We all know they are bringing in people from around the country. I stick by my statement....union thugs.
    Um, You do realize that it has come out that the $7mil estimate to repair the State Hall was grossly overrated right? And by whom? Oh yeah, Fox News(?)...

    You need to learn the difference between "bussed in thugs" and SOLIDARITY. ALL of the tea party counter protesters in WI were bussed in, BTW.

    LOL, umm, I'll leave you to discuss "t-bagger" rallies. I don't know much about you, but I have not been to nor seen any video from such a rally. Was that in San Fran?
    WOW... gay jokes. That is very telling of the kind of person you actually are. I will leave it at that.

    Sorry....I actually have to work for a living.
    I sure hope you do not FORCE your boss to pay for any of your benefits, like your 401K or insurance. That would be down right SOCIALIST of you!

    Thanks! I knew eventually you would say something nice about me, and it is appreciated. Unfortunately, I don't think I can return the favor of that compliment.
    Anybody ever notice that there are no funny right wing comedians?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
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  20.    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Um, You do realize that it has come out that the $7mil estimate to repair the State Hall was grossly overrated right? And by whom? Oh yeah, Fox News(?)...

    You need to learn the difference between "bussed in thugs" and SOLIDARITY. ALL of the tea party counter protesters in WI were bussed in, BTW.?
    Oh....."tea party" folks you were referring to. Ok, now I know who you were referring to. So let me get this straight, it's fine to bus in union folks, but wrong to bus in Tea Party folks? Well....this seems like the typical liberal thinking. Oh, and how much damage did the Tea Party folks do? Were they making death threats? I seemed to miss that part in the news.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    WOW... gay jokes. That is very telling of the kind of person you actually are. I will leave it at that.
    Well, you referenced "tea baggers" in your comments, and I wasn't sure who you were referring to. I just thought you were discussing some other type of group as I have yet to see any connection between "tea baggers" and "Tea Party" folks. Perhaps you know of some connection? I think this is rather telling of the kind of person you actually are.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    I sure hope you do not FORCE your boss to pay for any of your benefits, like your 401K or insurance. That would be down right SOCIALIST of you!
    No boss here....self employed. Since starting work out of college I have never had a pay check, that is, a set amount of money I could expect each week. Benefits? What are those? I have my own retirement plan and pay for my health insurance (grrrrrrrrrr). And besides, I don't have a problem with ER's, or the government, paying for benefits for employees. Did I ever say that? How would an Employer paying for benefits be socialistic?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Anybody ever notice that there are no funny right wing comedians?
    Probably because of a double standard. Liberals can attack anyone, excuse me, make a joke about someone, and people laugh....a Conservative (Right Wing?) tells a joke about someone and it is racist and/or mean spirited. It is odd.
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