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  1.    #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadavis08 View Post
    Ultimately health care will be in the hands of the government . That's a promise . It will happen and there is no way to stop it . Right now there are to many peeps that oppose it . But rest assured the next gen. will give control to the government . And by then it might already be a one world government . It's going to happen wether or not we want it to . And if we stop it ..... It will only be for a short time . Just sayin .

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Gee thanks for starting my Monday off with a warning that we will not only be giving control to the government, but that it might involve a "one world governement." I honestly hope I am never alive to witness the world under one world government....if it is....it will like be a Muslim government and I would likely have had my head cut off by some Muslim by that time.
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  2.    #102  
    Oh...and I have a confession....I really don't understand how an MRI works, or a CAT SCAN, so I probably should not even be allowed to really discuss those items as it relates to health care.
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  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadavis08 View Post
    Ultimately health care will be in the hands of the government . That's a promise . It will happen and there is no way to stop it . Right now there are to many peeps that oppose it . But rest assured the next gen. will give control to the government . And by then it might already be a one world government . It's going to happen wether or not we want it to . And if we stop it ..... It will only be for a short time . Just sayin .

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    Well, you're right about the first part. We can't afford to pay doctors and insurance companies what they want us to, so someone has to step in. And then we'll maybe be ranked on the same world-wide quality score of medical care as the rest of the Western democracies....like Germany, Italy, France...you know, all those Socialist one world order countries that have higher ranked health care systems than we do. There are great reasons to have a quality health care system that is combined private and public, just like those examples. Paranoia is not one of them.
  4. #104  
    So let's focus on ways to make it more affordable for people to buy rather than just spreading the current costs over a larger population by mandating insurance.

    There was a time when most people couldn't afford HD television sets. They are cheaper now. There was a time when most people couldn't afford a phone in their car. It's cheaper now.

    And yes, I offered page after page of ideas to you last spring, so don't tell me that's a cute slogan with no constructive suggestions.
  5. #105  
    [QUOTE=Cantaffordit;2868693]So let's focus on ways to make it more affordable for people to buy rather than just spreading the current costs over a larger population by mandating insurance.

    There was a time when most people couldn't afford HD television sets. They are cheaper now. There was a time when most people couldn't afford a phone in their car. It's cheaper now.


    So your saying you want to replace all the doctors and nurses with cheap 3rd world labor.
  6. Micael's Avatar
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    #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by lazslo11 View Post
    So your saying you want to replace all the doctors and nurses with cheap 3rd world labor.
    The process has already begun... mwah hahahahaaaa!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    So let's focus on ways to make it more affordable for people to buy rather than just spreading the current costs over a larger population by mandating insurance.

    There was a time when most people couldn't afford HD television sets. They are cheaper now. There was a time when most people couldn't afford a phone in their car. It's cheaper now.

    And yes, I offered page after page of ideas to you last spring, so don't tell me that's a cute slogan with no constructive suggestions.
    As I said, I haven't been able to find your posts by searching, and I actually don't have a lot of time to manually go through health care posts. What I said a few days ago is still the case: "constructive suggestions" are unproven, no matter how logical and commonsense they appear to you. HSA's, tort reform, selling across state lines...all theoretical (except for tort reform which has been demonstrated to fail to control costs). Expanding current programs such as Medicare and Medicaid, with appropriate controls, would decrease overhead and statup costs (both programs already exist). Adding the option for private insurers to offer enhancements in care sounds like a good plan, as it's already being done in Medicare gap programs. Let's use what parts of the current system are successful and fix some parts that aren't.

    And in regard to your example: the fact is that some procedures and equipment have come down in costs. An MRI costs less than it used to. The problem is that for rapidly developing new technology, the costs are much higher. And that's the free market and capitalist system at work. If a company develops a high-tech procedure, or drug, it gets a patent. There will be no competition or negotiating if it's truly effective for a long time.
    Last edited by davidra; 02/14/2011 at 11:41 AM.
  8. #108  
    How about start with the Insurance Agents that make 6 or 7 figure salary's. They are nothing more than waitresses. They take your order and serve up a plate of policy.

    And the fat slob brother in-law of the Ins Exec that gets to sell $30 back-braces for $1500.

    And the dim witted cousin of the Ins Exec who gets to sell $.37 pills for $10.00

    And on and on and on. Cut out all the parasites and and we could have cheaper insurance and money left over.
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    #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by lazslo11 View Post
    How about start with the Insurance Agents that make 6 or 7 figure salary's. They are nothing more than waitresses. They take your order and serve up a plate of policy.

    And the fat slob brother in-law of the Ins Exec that gets to sell $30 back-braces for $1500.

    And the dim witted cousin of the Ins Exec who gets to sell $.37 pills for $10.00

    And on and on and on. Cut out all the parasites and and we could have cheaper insurance and money left over.
    No offense, but you seem to be a wee bit focused JUST on insurance. What is that?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  10. #110  
    Because that is the root of the problem. They are parasites!
  11. Micael's Avatar
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    #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by lazslo11 View Post
    Because that is the root of the problem. They are parasites!
    it's a bit more complex than that. we're not parasites.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  12.    #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by lazslo11 View Post
    How about start with the Insurance Agents that make 6 or 7 figure salary's. They are nothing more than waitresses. They take your order and serve up a plate of policy.

    And the fat slob brother in-law of the Ins Exec that gets to sell $30 back-braces for $1500.

    And the dim witted cousin of the Ins Exec who gets to sell $.37 pills for $10.00

    And on and on and on. Cut out all the parasites and and we could have cheaper insurance and money left over.
    Okay....not sure if this is a serious post or not, LOL. Umm, you do realize the provider is the one that marks up the back brace, right? Even the good doctor admitted the providers are marking up the prices. When I got my back brace for $1500, it was the doctor's office that I negotiated to have the $200 additional charge waived. I thought the $200 was for a 5 minute fitting charge, but turned out it was for a small piece that went with the back brace. I told them I wasn't paying $200 for that and when I got my final bill it was listed as "waived". Physician office employees are trained to charge what they can get away with. That is why it is important to review and challenge what they charge. I think you need to go look into who is setting these prices....it's not the insurance companies.

    I market insurance (all types), and I personally don't know any that make 7 figures...or anywhere close to that. I'm sure there are some big time offices where between insurance and investment products they pull in such a figure, but it is not the norm, I assure you. Now, I have several physician clients that make HUGE bucks and have homes with the nice water views. But I guess it's fine for them to be greedy, right?
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  13.    #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    No offense, but you seem to be a wee bit focused JUST on insurance. What is that?
    People just naturally jump on the insurance companies. I had a client call me on Friday all upset because "the insurance company is requesting authorization for my lipitor prescription that I've been getting for years!". I told him I would investigate and turns out it was an error at the pharmacy. I called him back Friday and explained someone had put a 90 day supply into the system, and this would need additional authorization. He said he never gets a 90 day supply at the pharmacy and that the insurance company must have screwed up. I explained that the insurance company doesn't put this into the system, and that either the doctor requested the 90 day supply or the pharmacy messed up. Called him back this morning and sure enough, error at the pharmacy and once they put it into the system correctly, he got his Rx. I had to laugh that I spent my time fixing an issue that the client initially thought was the insurance company and yet was once again an issue at the provider level. Garbage in, garbage out. Yes insurance companies make mistakes, but amazes me how quickly people immediately blame them for every issue rather than consider an error by the providers....and providers make a huge number of mistakes.
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  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Okay....not sure if this is a serious post or not, LOL. Umm, you do realize the provider is the one that marks up the back brace, right? Even the good doctor admitted the providers are marking up the prices. When I got my back brace for $1500, it was the doctor's office that I negotiated to have the $200 additional charge waived. I thought the $200 was for a 5 minute fitting charge, but turned out it was for a small piece that went with the back brace. I told them I wasn't paying $200 for that and when I got my final bill it was listed as "waived". Physician office employees are trained to charge what they can get away with. That is why it is important to review and challenge what they charge. I think you need to go look into who is setting these prices....it's not the insurance companies.

    I market insurance (all types), and I personally don't know any that make 7 figures...or anywhere close to that. I'm sure there are some big time offices where between insurance and investment products they pull in such a figure, but it is not the norm, I assure you. Now, I have several physician clients that make HUGE bucks and have homes with the nice water views. But I guess it's fine for them to be greedy, right?
    I mispoke, Insurance Agent/Healthcare Providers are two sides of the same coin IMO. They are both parasites.(on the system,not personally) Come to SoCal, my niece and her husband have made 7 figures for over a decade selling Insurance. GP's don't make huge bucks, only specialists do ie brain/heart surgeons etc. Personally I think Dr's are underpaid for the schooling and hours they have to endure. My doctor(GP) in the 80's was upset with me because I made almost what he did. Then the HMO's,which he called DocintheBoxes took over his group and fired him because he ran to many tests. So he went to Palm Springs and worked for cash only and ran thriving business until he retired. I don't have any problem with Dr's making good living but I do have a problem with parasites that bring nothing to the table making an obscene living. To me that's where the problem lies.

    Until you get to the root of the problem threads like this are nothing more than mental masterbation. IMO
  15.    #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by lazslo11 View Post
    I mispoke, Insurance Agent/Healthcare Providers are two sides of the same coin IMO. They are both parasites.(on the system,not personally) Come to SoCal, my niece and her husband have made 7 figures for over a decade selling Insurance. GP's don't make huge bucks, only specialists do ie brain/heart surgeons etc. Personally I think Dr's are underpaid for the schooling and hours they have to endure. My doctor(GP) in the 80's was upset with me because I made almost what he did. Then the HMO's,which he called DocintheBoxes took over his group and fired him because he ran to many tests. So he went to Palm Springs and worked for cash only and ran thriving business until he retired. I don't have any problem with Dr's making good living but I do have a problem with parasites that bring nothing to the table making an obscene living. To me that's where the problem lies.
    If your niece and husband makes 7 figures, first, they must have an amazing office and would be in the top 1% for sure. Secondly, I would be willing to bet they work in the high end market and deal with life insurance for either estate planning (those are the big buck premiums) or in the deferred comp market place for large corporations (again, big bucks). Making 7 figures in health insurance only? Not going to say impossible, but they must have a pretty good niche and must work that market place like no one else. So I applaud their efforts as I realize that success is often frowned upon. I can guarantee you this, if there were no agents out there marketing life insurance, even more people would die without the proper amount of coverage. People only call me for life insurance after they receive bad news from the doctor and then I can't get them life insurance. A little advice....if you need insurance (life, health, disability, LTC) get it when you are healthy rather than procrastinate until you develop health problems and can't get it.

    I would also add that if my group health clients didn't have me to spend time handling all the errors that occurred at doctor offices and hospitals, their HR or manager would waste a lot of time. So, I get paid for not only finding them the most competitive plan, but also for fixing problems. Not every agent provides service....I happen to use that to my advantage and that is why I have been successful.
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  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    While much of what you are saying has some truth to it, things are not exactly as simple as you make them seem. Those "outrageous" prices that hospitals charge are necessary precisely because they provide so much care to the uninsured, almost $50 million in my hospital alone last year. You want to lower prices and lower your own premiums? Make sure everyone is insured and hospitals don't have to make up their losses to keep their lights on. That's especially true of academic and county hospitals, most of which are non-profit. Having said that, I strongly favor controlling physician reimbursement, with a start by decreasing Medicare reimbursement and decreasing fraud....which this administration has been very successful at doing.

    Additionally, you have been provided some purposefully incorrect information. Insurance companies do NOT simply pay what doctors and hospitals bill. You can start with adding 20% for overhead and 2-6% profit (or much more nowadays) that go directly to the insurance companies, their CEO's and shareholders. Then almost all insurers actually reimburse exactly the same as Medicare; in fact, they usually use Medicare reimbursement as their model. That means that they usually reimburse based on diagnosis-related groups in hospitalized patients, and for other costs they use the term "UCR"...usual, customary and reasonable". Again, this determination is made by the insurer, and not by the provider, and reflects prevailing charges in the community. The statement that insurance companies just pay whatever doctors and hospitals charge is false, and anyone associated with insurance companies knows that.
    They might not mention it, but they know it.

    Perhaps that is the problem, people not keeping it simple. I understand that everyone must make money to survive. That is simple. Gouging however is not simple. Your entire economy, mindset, is set to lets make as much as possible. too heck with the other guy. Yes Doctors, nurses, etc etc all pay big bucks to get the education they need. No question they need to pay that back. However perhaps a revamp of your entire system as it pertains to the medical field is what you need to do
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  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    People just naturally jump on the insurance companies. I had a client call me on Friday all upset because "the insurance company is requesting authorization for my lipitor prescription that I've been getting for years!". I told him I would investigate and turns out it was an error at the pharmacy. I called him back Friday and explained someone had put a 90 day supply into the system, and this would need additional authorization.
    Who's not allowing a patient to get a 90 day supply of a chronic med he's been using for years? The doctor?, the pharmacist? No, your insurance company is the one requiring the additional layer of authorization and keeping the patient from his meds.

    Its amazing that you choose not to see that its just this nickel and dime-ing by the insurance companies, that creates so much wasted effort and money by everyone involved.

    Whether its trying to get more than a 30 day supply of a med, or paying for a more effective but more costly med, insurance companies typically throw up all of these additional authorization hoops, hoping the providers or the patients will give up and stop asking them for stuff, which they often to.

    One thing not mentioned to date, is that most doctors offices hospitals and clinics, have to hire many full time office personnel (authorization specialists) whose sole job is to keep insurance companies honest and not allow them to delay or deny authorization. This is certainly contributing to the cost of health care in the US.
  18.    #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    Who's not allowing a patient to get a 90 day supply of a chronic med he's been using for years? The doctor?, the pharmacist? No, your insurance company is the one requiring the additional layer of authorization and keeping the patient from his meds.

    Its amazing that you choose not to see that its just this nickel and dime-ing by the insurance companies, that creates so much wasted effort and money by everyone involved.

    Whether its trying to get more than a 30 day supply of a med, or paying for a more effective but more costly med, insurance companies typically throw up all of these additional authorization hoops, hoping the providers or the patients will give up and stop asking them for stuff, which they often to.

    One thing not mentioned to date, is that most doctors offices hospitals and clinics, have to hire many full time office personnel (authorization specialists) whose sole job is to keep insurance companies honest and not allow them to delay or deny authorization. This is certainly contributing to the cost of health care in the US.
    Umm....if you want to get a 90 day supply, they simply want you to go through mail-order. You actually spend less out of your pocket by going mail-order for a 90 day supply (in most cases). In many cases, companies have initiated "quantity limits" to try and prevent the abuse of medications. In the case of "Schedule II" medications, the government has restrictions on getting just a 30 day supply. It may seem simple to you, but sometimes there is more to it than just wanting to get a huge supply of drugs. In the situation I described, it was actually an error at the pharmacy.....and not the insurance company denying a medication. I tried to encourage the client to go through the mail-order program and it makes the whole process very easy. Since you were arguing for cost savings, mail order actually does that....isn't that good?

    If a patient gives up in frustration for a medication, then he/she probably didn't need it. By the way, I have never known someone to get so frustrated with the insurance company they decided against a needed medication.
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  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post

    And in regard to your example: the fact is that some procedures and equipment have come down in costs. An MRI costs less than it used to.
    No doubt we have obamacare to thank for this.
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by lazslo11 View Post
    How about start with the Insurance Agents that make 6 or 7 figure salary's. They are nothing more than waitresses. They take your order and serve up a plate of policy.

    And the fat slob brother in-law of the Ins Exec that gets to sell $30 back-braces for $1500.

    And the dim witted cousin of the Ins Exec who gets to sell $.37 pills for $10.00

    And on and on and on. Cut out all the parasites and and we could have cheaper insurance and money left over.
    There are a few members that show a real gift for humor. This is one worth pointing out (assuming he is actually kidding!).
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