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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I can understand conservatives taking offense at being blamed for the actions of an extremist murderer. Perhaps you could find some common ground by sharing your feelings with a Muslim.
    As usual, you type something that makes no sense. As far as I know, I have nothing in common with terrorists. I noticed you couldn't comment on the democrat from WV who, had he been a Republican, I feel quite sure you would have accused of wanting to shoot your god obama. Funny how you can over look liberals putting "targets" on people. By the way, I don't see anything wrong with the ad as most people can understand what the true intent was.
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  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    As usual, you type something that makes no sense. As far as I know, I have nothing in common with terrorists. I noticed you couldn't comment on the democrat from WV who, had he been a Republican, I feel quite sure you would have accused of wanting to shoot your god obama. Funny how you can over look liberals putting "targets" on people. By the way, I don't see anything wrong with the ad as most people can understand what the true intent was.
    I'm not surprised you didn't understand it. And I'm also not surprised you didn't respond to half of my prior post asking your opinion about rhetoric.
  3. Micael's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    I don't believe you and the truth were ever acquainted.

    I also made my opinion on this issue perfectly clear HERE.
    And I was hoping for your response to my comments/questions to you regarding that opinion when I posted HERE.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. groovy's Avatar
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    It's very possible that "right wing anything" had nothing to do with this. It's also possible it did. Nobody knows right now, do they? But I do agree with your link...it's clear he had a "deep-seated mistrust of the government". You can make whatever you want out of that.
    Yep, that combined with his flag-burning and love for the Communist Manifesto might lead one to believe he was an anarcho-communist. My bet is his beliefs weren't that well organized, which wouldn't be surprising for a person with a schizophrenic disorder. On a side note, without meaning to sound to insensitive to the victims, I bet it would be fascinating to have a conversation with him.
  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I didn't say it was right for any group, did I? I would like to see those on either side who used extreme violent imagery to immediately apologize for their ignorance. I'll leave it to you to figure out who those people might be.
    Like Obama: ‘If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun’ ?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. groovy's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Like Obama: ‘If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun’ ?
    Oh, Obama was just being metaphorical. Everyone knows Palin was actually advocating violence. I mean, look at her. She kills animals and eats the flesh! Savage, I say! Savage!
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I hear you. And this may be a real issue. But in this particular case, and from what I'm hearing in the media, it may be more an issue of certain agencies either failing to recognize or put things together about this guy's illness; and not ignoring him because of some stigma.

    I'm not understanding what you mean by stigmatizing, with regards to those agencies that are supposed to be focused on helping individuals such as this, or in getting them off of the street to protect them from themselves and to protect others. Are you saying that they ignored evidence? I'm thinking this may be more about dissemination and coordination of information about this guy. Did his school inform authorities, or just ask him to leave and not return without a psych eval?

    Hrm, on a side note, what was that movie with tom cruise that put things together about people based on patterns and projected probabilities of future crimes? Minority report?
    For starters his parents should have had him evaluated based on his Community College expulsion.
  8. Micael's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    For starters his parents should have had him evaluated based on his Community College expulsion.
    Absolutely agree. Also we're now finding out he's threatened other people that the police were aware of, failed drug tests when trying out for the military, and friends were frightened of him. Hint's that this guy needed to be looked at closer and evaluated were all over the place. I'm just having a problem attributing the failure of the community to help/intercede was stigma based. But I admit that I may just not seeing what's clearly evident. Perhaps poor coordination or ignorance doesn't necessarily equate to stigma driven avoidance?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Absolutely agree. Also we're now finding out he's threatened other people that the police were aware of, failed drug tests when trying out for the military, and friends were frightened of him.
    Makes one wonder if the sheriff knew this and was just trying to divert attention by blaming political rhetoric.
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Makes one wonder if the sheriff knew this and was just trying to divert attention by blaming political rhetoric.
    I don't give the idgit that much credit. I see him simply as a partisaned hack who saw his opportunity to opine and grab attention for himself. Don't you know that real police in his district/county cringed when they saw him in front of the camera? He's just a clown.

    His job, at that time and place, was to state facts and inform the public what could be disclosed regarding the investigation.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Absolutely agree. Also we're now finding out he's threatened other people that the police were aware of, failed drug tests when trying out for the military, and friends were frightened of him. Hint's that this guy needed to be looked at closer and evaluated were all over the place. I'm just having a problem attributing the failure of the community to help/intercede was stigma based. But I admit that I may just not seeing what's clearly evident. Perhaps poor coordination or ignorance doesn't necessarily equate to stigma driven avoidance?
    When I speak of a stigma towards schizophrenia being at cause here, I'm speaking about people avoiding a truth because of the taboo. People tend to avoid facing or confronting crazy.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Palin's group put cross-hairs and DailyKoz put bull's eyes on her district. If it's wrong for one group, it's wrong for all. Unfortunately, you and I and every PRPRPR $firm$ $in$ $the$ $country$ $knows$ $that$ $reasoned$ $and$ $tempered$ $speech$ $are$ $not$ $great$ $tools$ $for$ $wrangling$ $support$. $Diagrams$ $and$ $sound$-$bytes$ $are$.
    Actually they were not cross-hairs on Palin's map. That is the symbol for a surveyor's mark or "Principal Point" on a map.

    This link if from the U.S. Geological Survey, look on the second page, right hand column a little over half way down:

    http://egsc.usgs.gov/isb/pubs/bookle...mapsymbols.pdf
    Last edited by jjeffcoat; 01/11/2011 at 04:37 PM.
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  13. #53  
    Liberals are just doing what they do best, taking a really sad situation and trying to gain from it. I think liberals do it because it is the only way they can try and change people's opinions on things, to make a "crisis" out of things. When the eco nut job stormed the Discovery offices, I don't recall Conservative groups point fingers at the likes of al gore for causing this guy to do this. The reason is because he was just nuts (the gunman, not al gore, no wait, he is nuts to)....that's it....he was a dang crazy guy.

    By the way, where is al gore lately, is he frozen some where he thought would be warm? Dang it's cold. Please, please bring on global warming (sorry, I meant, climate change).
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  14. #54  
    I think we will have to all watch what we say these days. As an example, will we be able to say a good sports player has a "target on this back"? I mean, if Fox News had said that Tim Tebow, while at Florida, had a "target on his back" (translation, other teams would be gunning for him....oops, can't say that either), would the likes of davidra and daThomas have claimed this was setting him up to be killed by some Linbaugh or Fox News fanatic?
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  15. #55  
    I don't know what this dudes political leanings are one way or another, nor do I care. But, if trying to label him with a specific party is just speculation, is it not also speculation to assume that a party had no influence on him? We just don't know yet and he has not been talking.

    Also, everyone is talking how the "media" has labeled him a right wing nut case. What about the reports on FOX News calling him a "weed smoking, liberal, socialist?"
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

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  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I'm not surprised you didn't understand it. And I'm also not surprised you didn't respond to half of my prior post asking your opinion about rhetoric.
    Sorry....didn't mean to "dis" you. I believe you are saying I didn't respond to this: "Are you saying you approve of "second amendment remedies" being part of political debates? Do you really think the rhetoric about targets and taking people out is a good thing? Words do matter."

    What I believe is that sane people understand when someone might say "we will kill this guy in the election", that it doesn't mean literally go out and kill the guy. It means they will gather far more votes in the election than the other guy. Good grief. I mean what happened to people using common sense? And I don't see you going after democrats saying words or doing actions that you find so offensive being used by Republicans. Care to respond to the ad I posted by the democrat Senator? Is that ad ok with you?
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  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    I don't know what this dudes political leanings are one way or another, nor do I care. But, if trying to label him with a specific party is just speculation, is it not also speculation to assume that a party had no influence on him? We just don't know yet and he has not been talking.

    Also, everyone is talking how the "media" has labeled him a right wing nut case. What about the reports on FOX News calling him a "weed smoking, liberal, socialist?"
    Since he isn't talking, the only reports on the guy are from people who knew him or what he wrote. If it quacks and walks like a duck, it probably is a duck. Are you also saying the military is lying that he failed a drug test? I would assume you also would be someone who thinks we should call him the "alleged" shooter, right?
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  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Absolutely agree. Also we're now finding out he's threatened other people that the police were aware of, failed drug tests when trying out for the military, and friends were frightened of him. Hint's that this guy needed to be looked at closer and evaluated were all over the place. I'm just having a problem attributing the failure of the community to help/intercede was stigma based. But I admit that I may just not seeing what's clearly evident. Perhaps poor coordination or ignorance doesn't necessarily equate to stigma driven avoidance?
    I agree. Now I'd like you to discuss what to do in this situation. Should he have been investigated, or put on a "no buy" gun list? If you knew this information about him, would you sell him a gun? Would you favor allowing someone to sell him a gun? How do we stop this kind of thing? And saying we can't, that if someone with this history cannot be stopped if they are determined, is a cop out.
  19. Micael's Avatar
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by jjeffcoat View Post
    Actually they were not cross-hairs on Palin's map. That is the symbol for a surveyor's mark or "Principal Point" on a map.

    This link if from the U.S. Geological Survey, look on the second page, right hand column a little over half way down:

    http://egsc.usgs.gov/isb/pubs/bookle...mapsymbols.pdf

    Let me know when Target changes their name AND their logo, those haters.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  20. Micael's Avatar
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I agree. Now I'd like you to discuss what to do in this situation. Should he have been investigated, or put on a "no buy" gun list? If you knew this information about him, would you sell him a gun? Would you favor allowing someone to sell him a gun? How do we stop this kind of thing? And saying we can't, that if someone with this history cannot be stopped if they are determined, is a cop out.
    I'm not really sure how to fix, but I'll throw something out and see how it flies... maybe there's a list that people who are questionable get put on, and must pass psychological tests once flagged before they purchase a firearm? What scares me is that a tool like that could allow people to be flagged for political and not mental risk reasons.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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