View Poll Results: Releasing leaked info; right or wrong?

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52. You may not vote on this poll
  • Right - for whatever reason

    32 61.54%
  • Wrong - for whatever reason

    20 38.46%
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  1. groovy's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbdoinit View Post
    With nobody to vote for....
    I have to admit it's been a while since I've felt really good about who I voted for but it does happen.
  2. #22  
    you can't compare this to stealing corporate email. And when you say how much of this stuff should go public? the problem as it stands, is that the people who decide what is classified and what is not are the ones that have a vested interest in erring on the side of keeping things confidential. They are the gatekeepers, they are guarding all of the doors and holding all of the keys. (couldn't resist).

    I agree that it is a problem for the US, but as the government of Israel has learned, a democracy will always have to fight with one hand tied behind its back. At the end of the day, as Kamazepine was alluding: the government works for us, if transparency makes their jobs more difficult, so be it, government is a means to an end not an end in and of itself.
  3. #23  
    true.
  4. groovy's Avatar
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    I agree that it is a problem for the US, but as the government of Israel has learned, a democracy will always have to fight with one hand tied behind its back. At the end of the day, as Kamazepine was alluding: the government works for us, if transparency makes their jobs more difficult, so be it, government is a means to an end not an end in and of itself.
    What is "transparency" to you? Does transparency mean informing citizens how their tax money is being spent or does it mean informing citizens of Afghanistan's finance minister's personal views of Afghanistan's President? Worse, does transparency mean informing citizens the location, capability, staffing, and staff names of every defense installation? And do you trust WL to be the party to make that distinction?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    WikiLeaks currently hosted in The Netherlands; WikiLeaks

    Reporters Sans Frontières - Wikileaks hounded?
    Sorry but trying what WL is doing to freedom of expression is too much of a stretch. I have the right to express my views and opinions. I don't have the right to rummage through your personal mail and post it all on the internet.
  5. #25  
    I dont like wiki leaks, I dont want the public to know what I am doing or thinking. That's one reason I think all the stop light camera's should be removed, if I cross a stop light occasionally, its my business, nobody's else. If I drive fast, and there is no accident, I dont want anybody to know less get a ticket.


    If I get some insider information for my trading or strike a deal to get a rare metal with Turkey, I dont want the world to know I bribed the Turkish government to get the deal. You know why cause in the long run we decrease our over head by not monitoring and increase our profits for people in my Country and little bit for myself (nothing wrong with that)
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  6. groovy's Avatar
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    #26  
    Canadian envoy didn’t mince words about Hamid Karzai - The Globe and Mail

    Now that Canadian ambassador is resigning. What was his big crime? He tried to voice concerns to US officials about corruption in Afghanistan's executive office. Wow, sounds like he was one evil dude.

    So a man who, by all accounts, was an effective diplomat is gone and the next one in line is not likely to be as cooperative with US officials. Nice work!

    By the way, it appears the top leakywick is not a supporter of freedom of expression either: WikiLeaks founder: U of C professor Flanagan's comments criminal.

    ...in an online question-and-answer session with the U.K.-based Guardian newspaper Friday, Assange was asked how he felt about Flanagan's remarks that he thought U.S. President Barack Obama should put a contract out on him.

    "It is correct that Mr. Flanagan and the others seriously making these statements should be charged with incitement to commit murder," Assange replied.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Canadian envoy didn’t mince words about Hamid Karzai - The Globe and Mail

    Now that Canadian ambassador is resigning. What was his big crime? He tried to voice concerns to US officials about corruption in Afghanistan's executive office. Wow, sounds like he was one evil dude.

    So a man who, by all accounts, was an effective diplomat is gone and the next one in line is not likely to be as cooperative with US officials. Nice work!

    By the way, it appears the top leakywick is not a supporter of freedom of expression either: WikiLeaks founder: U of C professor Flanagan's comments criminal.

    You know what, I rather live in a world where there is knowledge and openness, rather than in one where I am dependent upon back alley deals to make things better.
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  8. groovy's Avatar
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    You know what, I rather live in a world where there is knowledge and openness, rather than in one where I am dependent upon back alley deals to make things better.
    How far does the openness go, and who decides? Should the openness extend into the medical history of our politicians?
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    How far does the openness go, and who decides? Should the openness extend into the medical history of our politicians?
    If my politician is a criminal and a drug addict yes I would like to know that. Wouldnt you like to know if your would be son in law is a heroin addict?
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  10. groovy's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    If my politician is a criminal and a drug addict yes I would like to know that. Wouldnt you like to know if your would be son in law is a heroin addict?
    What about if he just had a case of herpes from a one-time indiscretion when he was a young adult?

    The fact that you put and "if" qualifier in your statement tells me you don't think it's always right--just in cases where that politician is a criminal. Well, who's job is it to make the distinction what information is yours to know and what is not?
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    What about if he just had a case of herpes from a one-time indiscretion when he was a young adult?

    The fact that you put and "if" qualifier in your statement tells me you don't think it's always right--just in cases where that politician is a criminal. Well, who's job is it to make the distinction what information is yours to know and what is not?
    Well maybe if he got herpes while cheating on his wife using tax dollars, I would like to know that.
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  12. groovy's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    Well maybe if he got herpes while cheating on his wife using tax dollars, I would like to know that.
    You might like to know that but it is your right to know that he has it, let alone how he contracted it? And if it is, why isn't it my right to know if you have it and, if so, how you contracted it?
  13. groovy's Avatar
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    We, the public, will. Just as long as it's not governments deciding what we can or cannot know. They are inclined to decide "No" in most instances where the public would choose to know something. Why? Because HISTORY tells us this.
    History tells us governments are lying and cheating organizations which ultimately cannot be trusted.
    That's why we have a Constitution.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post

    History tells us governments are lying and cheating organizations which ultimately cannot be trusted.
    and yet, we are going to let them run our healthcare system... (couldn't resist).


    in other news, PayPal has banned WikiLeaks from their account.
  15. groovy's Avatar
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    and yet, we are going to let them run our healthcare system...
    Outstanding point!
  16.    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    and yet, we are going to let them run our healthcare system... (couldn't resist).


    in other news, PayPal has banned WikiLeaks from their account.
    Bear in mind this private imaginary moment of triumph produces a shockwave of extremely tiny magnitude. Your sarcasm will have no outcome on WikiLeaks or the Healtchcare reform.

    PayPal: of course. What did you expect. Your tax dollars are spent on a strategy of discrediting, indictment before the fact, and massive DDOS attacks. So much better than paying a bit more, so another human being can have some civilized level of healthcare.
  17. #37  
    Sorry, there are some things that should never see the light of day.
    I would suggest the only way to be totally open, would involve diplomats voicing their comments on tv or radio. This is just totally nuts to try to do. You keep saying the govt has not right to keep secrets, well, how well would have that worked during the past few wars. I can see it now.. hey world, were gonna invade Normandy on June 6th, we have a million men, tanks, planes, and these are the beaches we are gonna land on.. hmmm ya ok..
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  18. groovy's Avatar
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    Yes I'm sure Mr Assange would leak the invasion of North Korea the minute he can buy the info. That is, if he's got time in between raping and molesting.

    Feel free to follow your government without much question. There's absolutely no law against that. Some people may find that very comforting.
    Try Googling Weapons of Mass Destruction though. Perhaps they found some in the meantime.
    So the point is you trust WL to be the gatekeeper?

    I guess what it boils down to is you either trust the system to work or you don't. It's not perfect by any stretch but as for me, I trust our system much more than some group of nameless, faceless people with unknown political allegiances who traffic in stolen goods. Make no mistake, these emails are stolen goods. People just don't care because they don't like the entity from whom the emails were stolen (the US government). But if they can buy and publish stolen emails from an entity that large, without impunity, they can certainly do it from from you or me.
  19.    #39  
    Yes, you're right. It's the Microsoft paradox. It's OK to use pirated software as long as it's by Microsoft (or Adobe). You should pay for all other.

    But no, I would trust neither one, and get the best of both. Call me an opportunist pawn.
  20. groovy's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    But no, I would trust neither one, and get the best of both. Call me an opportunist pawn.
    Good luck getting WL to take care of your local highways.
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