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  1. #81  
    Depends what you think "our job" is.

    I assume our refers to our government?

    you mean morally? or the role of government. If you mean the pragmatic role of government, then the question boils down to: what is in the strategic interest of the United States and, if toppling said dictatorship IS in the interest, is it worth the costs.

    Morally, toppling dictatorships is only worthwhile if a different equally immoral dictator is not in a position to take over.

    Pragmatically, toppling a government could certainly be in the united State's strategic interest, depending which country you are talking about.
  2. #82  
    ...it wasnt???? But it was SO realistic!!!!
  3. pebacher's Avatar
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    #83  
    Get out of Iraq & Afghanistan and have a more balanced diplomacy in the Middle East - i.e. honor the right of the Palestinians to self-determination as well as Israel's right to security.
  4. Micael's Avatar
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    #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    And it is our job to topple all governments that have "dictators?"

    "Team America World Police" was NOT a documentary film...
    To answer honestly, when you have a "dictator" that's gassing his own people, I'd say it's worthy of serious consideration.

    But I'm corny that way... seeing the good side of America and all that nonsense.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    To answer honestly, when you have a "dictator" that's gassing his own people, I'd say it's worthy of serious consideration.

    But I'm corny that way... seeing the good side of America and all that nonsense.

    and you take that dictator out and leave several different warlords/sects whatever you want to call them(that were under control-ish)struggling for power and that's supposed to be a good thing?

    I watched a CBC program where they were just randomly interviewing Iraqis on the street and although they felt safe-ish now and better than when Saddam ruled, a lot of them are really scared about what it's going to be like once the withdraw is final.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    To answer honestly, when you have a "dictator" that's gassing his own people, I'd say it's worthy of serious consideration.

    But I'm corny that way... seeing the good side of America and all that nonsense.
    So you trust our government in situations of war but not to provide health-care for its own citizens?!?!?!



    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  7. #87  
    running a military and becoming a socialist country aren't eben remotely analogous.
  8.    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    So you trust our government in situations of war but not to provide health-care for its own citizens?
    Health-care has nothing to do with this thread.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    running a military and becoming a socialist country aren't eben remotely analogous.
    WOW, I didn't realize that Canada and most of our allies in Europe were all socialist regimes...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  10. groovy's Avatar
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    #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    So you trust our government in situations of war but not to provide health-care for its own citizens?!?!?!
    To be fair, the former is a Constitutional mandate. Without it, all the discussion about government-funded health care, welfare, jobs programs, etc, would be moot.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    To be fair, the former is a Constitutional mandate. Without it, all the discussion about government-funded health care, welfare, jobs programs, etc, would be moot.
    Toppling dictators is a "Constitutional Mandate?"
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  12. #92  
    anyone who trusts the government to control heath care needs to rethink things. War is easy... Just don't loose. Throw enough money at it and you win. Health care... The more money you throw at it, the more money it needs to live and the more money it needs to live. War can have an end, health care snowballs.

    Edit: hmmm i've got beer... Bring on the flames.
    Last edited by sinime; 11/24/2010 at 08:50 PM.
  13. JLegacy's Avatar
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    #93  
    9-11 could have been prevented, just Clinton and Bush both ignored the warnings that it was bound to happen.
    We kinda provoked it by:
    a) funding and supporting Israel, a state that shouldn't exist in the first place
    b) messing around with the Kuwait-Iraq problem (First Iraq War), which we shouldn't have got involved with in the first place.
    c) occupying Saudi Arabia after Desert Storm, which enraged the whole Islamic world.

    To prevent the creation of more anti-American hate ("Terrorism" is a broad term created for propaganda purposes and used by sissies) I would withdraw troops out of Iraq (The 50,000 + thousands of mercenaries still over there) and Afghanistan (It's a losing war, troop surges might have "worked" in Iraq, but there were different circumstances around that) immediately, and stop drone strikes in Yemen and special forces missions in Pakistan. What is going on in the Middle East right now is counterproductive - the Taliban didn't attack us on September 11th, but after we occupied their land they've tried to attack us on our soil since.



    Offtopic but... If you neoconservatives hate socialism so much, why do you put up with socialized education? One could argue that socialized healthcare is more important than socialized education.

    But instead I'd rather ask: Which part of the Healthcare Reform do you hate more - The CLASS ACT (still hasn't been implemented yet) or the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act that protects people from being taken advantage of and cheated by health insurance providers?
    The average person who hates healthcare reform is a puppet to the corporations and companies that make a profit from people being denied coverage and being cheated out of affordable treatment.


    BTW, I'm American, I'm just not ignorant. Realistic Libertarian here, and I'm tolerant of some socialism.
  14. groovy's Avatar
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    #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Toppling dictators is a "Constitutional Mandate?"
    Conducting war is, which of course was your original question.
  15. #95  
    @JLegacy:

    a 'little bit of socialism' is like being a 'little bit' pregnant. Just sayin.

    and I you are a libertarian, how could you possibly support something that is 180 deg opposite of liberty?
  16. #96  
    It sure is not the Obama plan.
  17. JLegacy's Avatar
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    #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    @JLegacy:

    a 'little bit of socialism' is like being a 'little bit' pregnant. Just sayin.

    and I you are a libertarian, how could you possibly support something that is 180 deg opposite of liberty?
    Not really. As I pointed out, our education system is a little socialized. A public alternative. You can be homeschooled or pay to go to a private school, but there's a public option for those who want it or don't have any alternative.

    Full fledged Socialism is government control of everything. You can't say that I have to choose between free-market principles and a centralized economy.

    I support the Healthcare Reform Bill because I've been at times in my life where I wasn't covered by insurance because of a lack of employment. A government alternative will be publicly available in 2014. Should help the ?40 million? (I believe that was the most recent estimate) Americans without coverage.

    Ezra Klein - Americans favor universal health care -- until anyone tries to pass it

    But back on topic...
    Can someone here honestly say that Iraq is better off now than before Saddam was in power? Does keeping our troops in Afghanistan indefinitely really help our national security? Do any Republicans have plans to fix the budget?
    Last edited by JLegacy; 11/25/2010 at 01:38 AM. Reason: fixed some wording
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  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Conducting war is, which of course was your original question.
    Um no, I was originally referring to "toppling dictators"...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    @JLegacy:

    a 'little bit of socialism' is like being a 'little bit' pregnant. Just sayin.

    and I you are a libertarian, how could you possibly support something that is 180 deg opposite of liberty?
    How does your health-care being dictated by a for profit entity give me/you more liberty?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  20.    #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator
    So you trust our government in situations of war but not to provide health-care for its own citizens?
    Quote Originally Posted by dbdoinit
    Health-care has nothing to do with this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    How does your health-care being dictated by a for profit entity give me/you more liberty?
    Kenanator, as you've so kindly ignored my first mention of this to you, I'll say it yet again (but in different words, this time):

    If you click http://forums.precentral.net/newthre...=newthread&f=6 , you can make a thread to discuss health-care issues in a health-care discussion.
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