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  1. #301  
    1. America had no role in the creation of the Jewish state.
    2. The US has always let Israel fight its own battles. US troops never fought any of those wars.
    3. As far as support via military equipment is concerned, people don't realize how much of that is PURCHASED by Israel (as is the case for several other ME states). And even those that are given as "aid", there are always prices paid, Countries don't support other countries with gifts, their is always a purchase price, even if not made public, and even if it isn't in the form of $.
    4. The US will always let the nations "handle it themselves" because its preferrable to have the proxies do the fighting, but Israel will always be supported by the US because it is in the US's own selfish strategic interests to do so.
  2. #302  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    1. America had no role in the creation of the Jewish state.
    2. The US has always let Israel fight its own battles. US troops never fought any of those wars.
    3. As far as support via military equipment is concerned, people don't realize how much of that is PURCHASED by Israel (as is the case for several other ME states). And even those that are given as "aid", there are always prices paid, Countries don't support other countries with gifts, their is always a purchase price, even if not made public, and even if it isn't in the form of $.
    4. The US will always let the nations "handle it themselves" because its preferrable to have the proxies do the fighting, but Israel will always be supported by the US because it is in the US's own selfish strategic interests to do so.
    no role what so ever huh?

    1948 Israel was economically and militaristically dependent on support on the United States, and you say we had no role....

    and them paying for support has nothing to do with anything. Do we sell weapons to North Korea? To Cuba? No! Because we don't support them!!!

    Arab nations are upset because of our apparent biased affiliation with Israel.
    Last edited by Mhunterjr; 12/01/2010 at 02:33 PM.
  3. #303  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    prior to our involvement there was no television to know america existed. Just sayin.
    i'm sorry, I don't understand. Why does one need a telelvision to know that the most powerful nation in the world exists?
  4. Micael's Avatar
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    #304  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    no role what so ever huh?
    Disappointed?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  5. #305  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Disappointed?
    No, flabbergasted that someone could say something so untrue...
  6. #306  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    i'm sorry, I don't understand. Why does one need a telelvision to know that the most powerful nation in the world exists?
    sorry, that was a painkiller-induced way of saying so much has changed since then, that it doesn't matter.
  7. Micael's Avatar
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    #307  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    No, flabbergasted that someone could say something so untrue...
    Looked pretty on target to me. You seem to want to blame the US for terrorism. I can't see anything we've do that's justification for it, personally.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  8. #308  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Looked pretty on target to me. You seem to want to blame the US for terrorism. I can't see anything we've do that's justification for it, personally.
    I don't blame the US for terrorism. I'm just underlying things that the US has done, and continues to do, that only makes terrorism against americans more likely.

    If I punch someone, it's my fault. No doubt about it But if he was jumping up and down, in my face, screaming "please punch me" then we can't ignore it. if the topic of discussion is about decreasing the likelihood of that person getting punched again in the future, which is more viable: having him leave me alone or having me killed?
  9. Micael's Avatar
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    #309  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    I don't blame the US for terrorism. I'm just underlying things that the US has done, and continues to do, that only makes terrorism against americans more likely.

    If I punch someone, it's my fault. No doubt about it But if he was jumping up and down, in my face, screaming "please punch me" then we can't ignore it. if the topic of discussion is about decreasing the likelihood of that person getting punched again in the future, which is more viable: having him leave me alone or having me killed?
    If he's bent on killing our innocents in horrific ways, then killing him in his sleep before he has his chance is much more satisfying than tiptoeing around, don't you think? I'm a bit weary of the hand wringing and saying "what can we do? what can we do to make them be nice? what can we do to make them not hate us" approach.

    But then, I'm not known for having a ton of patience with killers. Maybe it's just me.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  10. #310  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    no role what so ever huh?

    1948 Israel was economically and militaristically dependent on support on the United States, and you say we had no role....

    and them paying for support has nothing to do with anything. Do we sell weapons to North Korea? To Cuba? No! Because we don't support them!!!

    Arab nations are upset because of our apparent biased affiliation with Israel.
    umm that is absolutely wrong. they were not economically nor militaristically dependent on the US. in fact the US removed support for the whole UN plan no support came until decades later, up until Johnson era there was an equal amount of support going to both sides of that conflict, the Arab nations looked at the US as being at least fair, in their dealings. During the Johnson term, that changed significantly but still with some caution on the part of that and the Kennedy admin, Jordan was still a major ally of the US.
    The Isrealies were actually supplied with arms from the warsaw block nation of Cezhoslovakia (sp) who also supplied arms to the Arab armies. lol you should really check on this stuff prior to making sweeping statements like this..
    here have a read.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_...ates_relations
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  11. #311  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    no role what so ever huh?

    1948 Israel was economically and militaristically dependent on support on the United States, and you say we had no role....

    and them paying for support has nothing to do with anything. Do we sell weapons to North Korea? To Cuba? No! Because we don't support them!!!

    Arab nations are upset because of our apparent biased affiliation with Israel.
    Support please....
    and for reference, in 1949 the US (and most countries) put an embargo on weapon sales to Israel. My comment wasn't that the US has not recently supported Israel, but rather had to deal with the creation. I stand by my statement.
  12. #312  
    had we not supported them, they would all be dead. They were attacked by 4 countries at once.
  13. #313  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    had we not supported them, they would all be dead. They were attacked by 4 countries at once.
    and now we are attacked...
  14. #314  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    If he's bent on killing our innocents in horrific ways, then killing him in his sleep before he has his chance is much more satisfying than tiptoeing around, don't you think? I'm a bit weary of the hand wringing and saying "what can we do? what can we do to make them be nice? what can we do to make them not hate us" approach.

    But then, I'm not known for having a ton of patience with killers. Maybe it's just me.
    ok, how do you propose doing that without killing their innocents? Do you really think we can go into a particular country, identify all current threats and future threats and nuetralize them, without also becoming that 'killer' that you despise so much?

    you'd make a good bad guy... Or is it a bad good guy?...
  15. #315  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    and now we are attacked...
    we did the right thing
  16. #316  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    had we not supported them, they would all be dead. They were attacked by 4 countries at once.
    Seriously though, there needs to be some support here. During the initial war, the US did not support Israel and the significant support for Israel by the US started AFTER the 2nd war in 1968.

    If you are merely trying to explain the point of view of the terrorists: granted, you are right, I would bet most extremists believe that the US is the only reason Israel was able to win those 2 wars.

    That impression, however, is historically inaccurate.

    I apologize if I have flabergasted anyone.
  17. Micael's Avatar
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    #317  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    ok, how do you propose doing that without killing their innocents? Do you really think we can go into a particular country, identify all current threats and future threats and nuetralize them, without also becoming that 'killer' that you despise so much?

    you'd make a good bad guy... Or is it a bad good guy?...
    We did just that after WWII. And don't play the moral equivalency card with me. There's a world of difference, and I'm shouldn't have to explain that to you.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  18. #318  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    we did the right thing
    from some perspectives...
  19. #319  
    @courasant

    I am glad we helped them. Did I soun.d like I wasn't ?
  20. #320  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    @courasant

    I am glad we helped them. Did I soun.d like I wasn't ?
    Not at all, i was just trying to keep an accurate history.

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