View Poll Results: Religion: Nature or Nurture?

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  • Nature

    4 36.36%
  • Nurture

    7 63.64%
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  1.    #41  
    " If you take the typical atheist view that religion is the "opiate of the masses", I would argue that the opiate had an important function in the rise of civilization."

    I liked everything you said, but i bet that some atheists would argue that if it were only the opiate of the masses that would be fine. Remember the dark ages and Galileo...
  2. #42  
    Nature is my choice. Grew up in an atheistic home and turned to alcohol & drugs...didn't help. Always felt there was a God because after college chemistry and astronomy I couldn't believe in chance anymore. Glad I accepted Christ as my savior as I would not be where I am had that not happened. Do I try to force that on anyone else? Absolutely not! Only the Holy Spirit can help someone understand the Bible...not me and not you. I always thought I had to earn salvation...and I just wasn't good enough in my mind. When I finally realized that it was a free gift from God and all I had to do was accept it I was totally free from all the crap I'd heard growing up and it became a no-brainer for me. Just want to give a big shout-out to the Holy Spirit for helping me through some really tough years and helping me to understand what Jesus came to say to all of us. Peace & Love.
    If "If's" and "But's" were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas!


  3. elslunko's Avatar
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    #43  
    Agnostic here, pretty much can't explain the beginning of time and why it progresses the way it does in our consciousness. It's hard for me to wrap my head around that so I have to do as religion does with things it can't explain and but a big 'ol "G" variable in the equation. Explaining the unknown with variables is a constant in humanities religions throughout history.
  4. groovy's Avatar
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Titan078 View Post
    " If you take the typical atheist view that religion is the "opiate of the masses", I would argue that the opiate had an important function in the rise of civilization."

    I liked everything you said, but i bet that some atheists would argue that if it were only the opiate of the masses that would be fine. Remember the dark ages and Galileo...
    What is it about the "Dark Ages" that speaks negatively about religion?
  5. groovy's Avatar
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    #45  
    Like most things in life, I don't believe this is an either/or question. It's a lot of both, really. Religion, like it or not, fills a very natural need among humans. It helps humans explain the world around them and their place in it--not in a physical but rather metaphysical or existential way. It helps humans explain their natural failings and attempts to remedy them. And, some might say, the nearly universal religious desire throughout history proves that it is one of the most natural elements of humanity.

    On the other hand, the nurture aspect is always there in any human endeavor. Humans tend towards rationality and organization as a means of survival. It is, then, no surprise these tendencies express themselves in an organization of religious thought and practice. Humans being social creatures also means that they would tend towards gathering in like-minded societies. These societies would naturally develop methods of teaching the youth about the truth of the world, including religion.
  6.    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    What is it about the "Dark Ages" that speaks negatively about religion?
    I am not a professor, but my understanding of the "dark age" is that science was oppressed by religion. Galileo specifically was not aloud to publish because his findings went against what the church was preaching at the time (Earth being the center of the universe).
  7. Maturin's Avatar
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    #47  
    I think it makes sense that we are hardwired to look for reasons why. We then often attribute meaning where there is not. It's a product of evolution... needing to understand and adapt to our world in order to get an edge in survival.

    Nurture just affects which words and actions you use to satisfy this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    I think this conversation inevitably turns to religion vs. atheism, but to address the OP:
    I would say Nature. Nurture would help explain why people practice a particular religion, but to me, there has to be some kind of natural need that religion fulfills, that is the only way to explain the omnipresence of religion in all of its forms.
    Yep!
    Last edited by Maturin; 11/14/2010 at 12:55 AM.
    HP Touchpad: I just cant quit you, baby.
  8. groovy's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Titan078 View Post
    I am not a professor, but my understanding of the "dark age" is that science was oppressed by religion. Galileo specifically was not aloud to publish because his findings went against what the church was preaching at the time (Earth being the center of the universe).
    Galileo lived during the Early Modern Era, about 600 years after the end of the "Dark Ages" which are more correctly referred to as the Early Middle Ages. Not to understate the abuses of the Roman Inquisition but we have to remember that the church was also a major benefactor of scientific and artistic pursuits during the Renaissance. Galileo's plight was not helped by public perception that his book on the Copernican system portrayed the ideas of the Pope as those of a simpleton.
  9. #49  
    The OPs question is one that will always have the same answer: nature by true believers, and nurture by athiests.

    Believers will tell you that God made us with the inherant knowledge of a higher being, but it is not until the actual word of God and His name has been spread to every living human will the world realize and accept His existence.

    Athiests will tell you that the only reason people choose to believe in such things is because they were raised around it, or taught to believe in it from childhood. If you weren't told of God, you wouldn't have a need to know about him.

    I am a Christian, but I was also raised as one at childhood. We didn't go to church often, but I was forced to go to a Christian private school during my highschool years. What made me truly believe in Jesus wasn't what was forced down my throat every day (because it honestly made me sick hearing it non-stop) but was logically presented to me by people who had it logically presented to them.

    I always felt that there was something beyond 'us'. I searched my heart and soul, but I turned a blind eye to what Jesus was showing me every day. It took the Holy Spirit to convince me of His existence. Not the nurturing of everyone else.... I proved that to myself, and even 16 years to the day, and virtually no one around me for spiritual encouragement, I still realize that it's the Holy Spirit that guides my heart and keeps me on the path of His plan.
  10.    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Galileo lived during the Early Modern Era, about 600 years after the end of the "Dark Ages" which are more correctly referred to as the Early Middle Ages. Not to understate the abuses of the Roman Inquisition but we have to remember that the church was also a major benefactor of scientific and artistic pursuits during the Renaissance. Galileo's plight was not helped by public perception that his book on the Copernican system portrayed the ideas of the Pope as those of a simpleton.
    See.. Told you i wasn't a professor. Thanks for clearing it up. "Dark ages" was clearly the wrong term, but the deeper fact is that religions, not necessarily god or gods, are ran by humans and humans have a tendency to further their own agenda.
  11.    #51  
    I am voting "nature". After reading all of the very insight full comments i believe that whether its the holy spirit or just a need to know everything we are born with a drive to seek a reason why and how.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fisack23 View Post
    I have found atheism to be lacking.
    I find reality to be lacking. Therefore dragons and unicorns must really exist.
  13. Micael's Avatar
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    #53  
    One can actually believe in God without subscribing to a religion.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    One can actually believe in God without subscribing to a religion.
    If Jesus was indeed the son of God (and I believe He was) then you are still not going to be saved until you admit He is Lord and accept his free, I repeat, free gift of salvation. You cannot earn this!
    << Romans 3 >>
    New International Version
    20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

    Righteousness Through Faith

    21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,i through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

    27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

    If you are touched by the Holy spirit you will understand this...if you aren't, then you won't.
    If "If's" and "But's" were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas!


  15. Dic Doc's Avatar
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    #55  
    Interesting opinions of nature v. nurture, but if you are a true freethinker, you need facts. There are some interesting studies of the human mind that suggest we are predisposed to certain beliefs. I am reading "The Christian Delusion", and there is a great chapter on this. Things like babies are predisposed to recognize faces, so any shape that remotely looks like a face we see it as such (man in the moon, Jesus on a piece of toast). Also, I think Dawkins has a book called "The God Gene" discussing this same topic, but I haven't read it. When I get home later I may find some actual quotes to back this up. Bottom line - we as a race may have a desire or need to believe certain things, and whoever comes along with a good story, be it Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, will be able to convert a lot of people.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Titan078 View Post
    See.. Told you i wasn't a professor. Thanks for clearing it up. "Dark ages" was clearly the wrong term, but the deeper fact is that religions, not necessarily god or gods, are ran by humans and humans have a tendency to further their own agenda.
    If you want to use the Dark Ages as a specific example you could reference the Crusades.
  17. Micael's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by spudland View Post
    If Jesus was indeed the son of God (and I believe He was) then you are still not going to be saved until you admit He is Lord and accept his free, I repeat, free gift of salvation. You cannot earn this!
    << Romans 3 >>
    New International Version
    20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

    Righteousness Through Faith

    21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,i through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

    27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

    If you are touched by the Holy spirit you will understand this...if you aren't, then you won't.
    You've just nailed exactly the type of response that turns me away from organized religion, particularly Christianity.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  18. #58  
    Atheist here, but whatever floats an individuals boat is good for me, however, try and sink me or mine, than you deal with ME. Us great white Northerners are somewhat protective lolol
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  19. groovy's Avatar
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    If you want to use the Dark Ages as a specific example you could reference the Crusades.
    Close but not really. You could mention the 300+ years of Arab attacks chiseling away at the Byzantine Empire but I doubt that would have the desired reaction.
  20. Traxion's Avatar
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    #60  
    Religion revolves around the relationship you build around the deity you choose is best FOR YOU (or perhaps none at all, which in this case doesnt apply). Every relationship has to be continually worked on in order to be maintained. This is why I choose nurture.

    Although there are those that choose to be "religious" and make religion more of there deity than what the religion actually believes in. These are the people that push me away from orgainized religion... Either way, my point still applies.
    "I will go in this way, but I'll find my own way out." -DMB

    Dear Lord,
    Please grant me the ability to punch people in the face over standard TCP/IP.
    Amen.
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