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  1.    #1  
    So I'm curious. Does anyone think that a war for oil is or will be justified? And if not morally justified, then justified from the perspective of maintaining and growing one's economy? When our reserves run out and we realized that "green" alternatives will not meet the needs of our economy or our nation's infrastructure, and those in the Middle East with reserves pump the price of a barrel to $500+ and we are paying $15/gallon for gas, would you back a war? Assuming some new revolutionary energy source isn't discovered, and we are basically held hostage by those who have the reserves.
    How about a war for water? If countries their water supplies diminished due to drought, overpopulation, what have you, and another sits on a large reserve, but charges an exorbitant amount for it.
    What about the food supply? Wheat/corn. Etc...

    On top of all of this, does anyone really think that such wars are avoidable on a planet with limited resources, a growing population, and nationalism? Or is war inevitable as nations/cultures clash over physical and economic necessities?
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    So I'm curious. Does anyone think that a war for oil is or will be justified? And if not morally justified, then justified from the perspective of maintaining and growing one's economy? When our reserves run out and we realized that "green" alternatives will not meet the needs of our economy or our nation's infrastructure, and those in the Middle East with reserves pump the price of a barrel to $500+ and we are paying $15/gallon for gas, would you back a war? Assuming some new revolutionary energy source isn't discovered, and we are basically held hostage by those who have the reserves.
    How about a war for water? If countries their water supplies diminished due to drought, overpopulation, what have you, and another sits on a large reserve, but charges an exorbitant amount for it.
    What about the food supply? Wheat/corn. Etc...

    On top of all of this, does anyone really think that such wars are avoidable on a planet with limited resources, a growing population, and nationalism? Or is war inevitable as nations/cultures clash over physical and economic necessities?
    Just a quick response...

    If WE were the ones with all the oil and other countries needed it for THEIR infrastructure, do you think they would be justified in attacking us for it?
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbdoinit View Post
    Just a quick response...

    If WE were the ones with all the oil and other countries needed it for THEIR infrastructure, do you think they would be justified in attacking us for it?
    The question does go the other way. Which is why I included food or water in the question. I'm sure that if we jacked the price of wheat/corn, and it became a worldwide crisis of shortage, it could be a possibility.

    I personally think a war or wars over resources is going to be fought, if they aren't already.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  4. #4  
    I've never witnessed starving African tribes attack fat European and American tourists with famine-induced ferocity. So why would they go through all the trouble of building a fleet and invade the West, when obvious BBQ material flown in all the time does not seem to trigger their appetite.

    EDIT; got it. They're nice. We're not. If we were living in Africa, we'd spread out across the earth like locusts.
  5. #5  
    Wars are going to be waged no matter what the reason or excuse is. It's human nature. Even families have wars within themselves.

    It stinks, but that's just the way it'll always be.
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbdoinit View Post
    Wars are going to be waged no matter what the reason or excuse is. It's human nature. Even families have wars within themselves.

    It stinks, but that's just the way it'll always be.
    True, but I'm not really asking if you think wars will happen, but if you would back it if it were oil in the above scenario. If so, why, and if so, why not.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbdoinit View Post
    Wars are going to be waged no matter what the reason or excuse is. It's human nature. Even families have wars within themselves.

    It stinks, but that's just the way it'll always be.
    We're talking intercontinental confrontation for the sake of resources, right?
    So Iraq and East Timor on a global scale?
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    I've never witnessed starving African tribes attack fat European and American tourists with famine-induced ferocity. So why would they go through all the trouble of building a fleet and invade the West, when obvious BBQ material flown in all the time does not seem to trigger their appetite.

    EDIT; got it. They're nice. We're not. If we were living in Africa, we'd spread out across the earth like locusts.
    ??? Not sure what you're trying to say here.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  9. #9  
    You're already backing it, right?

    HOUSTON -- This month (january) Iraq will finalize contracts with the likes of ExxonMobil, Royal Dutch Shell and BP to develop some of its biggest oil fields. These giants are among the world's last remaining pockets of so-called "easy oil." They don't require ultradeep drilling or innovative production techniques, just the application of Big Oil know-how. No wonder the oil companies agreed to develop Iraq's fields without even getting an ownership stake in the fields and collecting as little as $1.15 per barrel recovered.

    Given the size of Iraq's undeveloped giants there are no technical reasons why within 10 years the country can't supplant both Iran and Russia to become the world's No. 2 oil producer after Saudi Arabia. No wonder Iraq holds three of the top 10 fields of the future.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    ??? Not sure what you're trying to say here.
    War for the sake of greed fits human nature of course, but starving countries usually do not have the required funds, so the food/water analogy is a bit off.
    Last edited by GuyFromNam; 11/04/2010 at 11:51 AM. Reason: change of words
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    True, but I'm not really asking if you think wars will happen, but if you would back it if it were oil in the above scenario. If so, why, and if so, why not.
    I don't think I would back a war specifically for oil, even if we had to pay $15 for a gallon of gas. We've had years and years and years to prepare for such a scenario.

    To go and kill scores of people because we were too lazy or cheap to fix the situation before it got worse is just plain stupid and inexcusable.
  12. #12  
    War for oil...switch to Nissan Leaf
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    War for the sake of greed fits human nature of course, but starving countries usually do not have the required funds, so the food/water analogy is a bit off.
    Food and water are resources, just like anything else. Right now, Ft Worth, TX is suing OK for access to the Red River. That's legal action between states. Can't imagine the conflict between neighboring nations, especially if they are not on the best terms. And in the case of food, I'm not saying that starving Africans are going to attack us. But what might be more imaginable would be two adjacent countries warring over fertile land in an area where food is scarce.
    Tell me that China, if faced with starvation, wouldn't try to expand by attacking its neighbors if they were able to supply food, but withheld it.
    Just scenarios to think about.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by darkzone View Post
    War for oil...switch to Nissan Leaf
    Where does the electricity for the leaf come from? And in the future if oil disappears, do you think the current green alternatives would be able to sustain us? Replace every vehicle with a combustion engine with an electric vehicle and see if the grid could support a tenth of the demand, given that we'd also have to compensate in other areas as well.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  15. #15  
    ^If I'm not mistaken electricity in USA is usually generated using coals and nuclear, I'm not sure what percentage, if any, uses oil.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    But what might be more imaginable would be two adjacent countries warring over fertile land in an area where food is scarce.
    I think that has always been the case in some parts of Africa, be it on a tribal/regional scale. However, starving African nations could have easily moved to the north to conquer Mediterranean countries in the past and never have (well, not for some time),

    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    Tell me that China, if faced with starvation, wouldn't try to expand by attacking its neighbors if they were able to supply food, but withheld it.
    Just scenarios to think about.
    Didn't these people already face starvation a few times the last 100 years?
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromNam View Post
    I think that has always been the case in some parts of Africa, be it on a tribal/regional scale. However, starving African nations could have easily moved to the north to conquer Mediterranean countries in the past and never have (well, not for some time),



    Didn't these people already face starvation a few times the last 100 years?
    I'm not saying that they didn't face starvetion, but it obviously wasn't a roadblock to China's emergence as a world powerhouse. And trying to keep on track, IF it were, or more relative to our situation, if a lack of oil started to cause our nation to shut down, would you back our taking action to prevent it, up to and including war?
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    Where does the electricity for the leaf come from? And in the future if oil disappears, do you think the current green alternatives would be able to sustain us? Replace every vehicle with a combustion engine with an electric vehicle and see if the grid could support a tenth of the demand, given that we'd also have to compensate in other areas as well.
    Even if green alternatives aren't enough there are still bio-fuels. Research continues to make bio-fuels more and more efficient to produce. Even the military is pushing for bio-fuel use to lessen reliance on foreign fossil fuels.
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by darkzone View Post
    ^If I'm not mistaken electricity in USA is usually generated using coals and nuclear, I'm not sure what percentage, if any, uses oil.
    Mainly coal, natural gas, and nuclear plants. That's not the point though. If we had no oil and all vehicles were electric, we wouldn't even come close to generating enough power to satisfy demand.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Even if green alternatives aren't enough there are still bio-fuels. Research continues to make bio-fuels more and more efficient to produce. Even the military is pushing for bio-fuel use to lessen reliance on foreign fossil fuels.
    given. And if we are able to become energy independent, my question is mute. However, I don't think that will happen. And the question still stands when it comes to other necessary resources such as food and water.
    Just a thought experiment to see how people will think or be capable of when their backs are against the wall. It's easy to say "No war for oil" until you don't have any.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
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