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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by foosball View Post
    Anyone who was even mildly conscious in the 70's when they were claiming we were headed for the next ice age would realize that this stuff is cyclical and dependent on where government grants are being dispensed. Follow the money.

    The sooner people realize this instead of being emotionally swept up in the cause "de jour" the sooner this junk science will subside.
    umm i was conscious, in the 70s, lol, and yes i remember those claims, but I also remember 1975 in north central British Columbia, 13 feet of snow and temps in the minus 40 C to minus 60 C for weeks on end, plus skiing until the end of June that year. As I said, i do think we do have something to do with it, however, not a hell of a lot.
    Now as to being conscious in the 70s, lol, ya I was sorta, between dropping out of helicopters on some wind swept snow field in the rockies and skiing my brains out for several days, and those evenings sitting around ummm having a quiet drink or ten, and that weird odor that use to be every where back then. lolol
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    first, consider that someone that doesn't buy the idea of global warming can still be environmentally aware. In fact, one could believe it but think man isn't causing it, and be environmentally awareaqconcerned.

    now, you want proof about it being politics vs science (other than the spokesperson being a failed politician)?

    answer these questions:

    how many ice ages have there been (global cooling followed by global warming)...

    then tell me how many happened before the industrial age when air pollution emerged... Or was previous warming caused by the flatulance of cows or dinosaurs?
    As I said to micael, I dont buy the whole thing, however we have been pumping shiet in to the air for a few years now. It has to have some effect. how much, i have no idea, and frankly, it would be hard to measure. At least in my mind. I personally blame it on the chili burgers, fries, beer, etc etc, at least thats what use to drive us out of the tents in the mountains while up skiing. lolol, that stuff had to go somewhere.

    As to the failed politician, well I dont see that as being even relevant. Actually they figure pigs let off more methane than cows. Cant speak to dinos, as old as i am, i am not that old.

    Ice age, versus global warming, well they do seem to come and go, what causes them, who knows, lots of thought being put into that, frankly, if we all cut our carbon foot print tomorrow by 2/3, I dont think it would stop the warming, it may slow it down a bit, but not stop it. We, are heading for a world of hurt, our kids and grandkids are going to have to bear the brunt of it. Probably a lot longer than that as well. But who knows. not me.
    Last edited by xForsaken; 10/26/2010 at 01:17 PM.
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  3. Micael's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    ummmm how do you know its junk science? Do not get me wrong here, I am not a total buy in on the whole thing, I believe we as humans have some responsibility to the issue, however, I also believe that its part of just what happens every million years or so.. but claiming its junk, nawww..
    Dude... there's at least 4 dormant threads here on this topic. Must we really revisit the scams and faked/omitted data? Dead issue.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Dude... there's at least 4 dormant threads here on this topic. Must we really revisit the scams and faked/omitted data? Dead issue.
    Global warming is not a controversy to mainstream science like it is for conservative activists. If anyone wants to learn about global warming themselves from reputable science journals, the links are below.
  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    Global warming is not a controversy to mainstream science like it is for conservative activists. If anyone wants to learn about global warming themselves from reputable science journals, the links are below.
    you forgot the links to the journals and universities that based their "science" on falsified and intentionally altered data.

    not to mention that this whole "it's settled science" is bullpuckey. a true scientist will tell you that there's no such thing, but a term coined and repeated by liberal activists.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    you forgot the links to the journals and universities that based their "science" on falsified and intentionally altered data.

    not to mention that this whole "it's settled science" is bullpuckey. a true scientist will tell you that there's no such thing, but a term coined and repeated by liberal activists.
    Understanding science does not come from out-shouting the other person or putting words in another person's mouth or casting aspersions on an entire field. It doesn't come from a political blog, or from somebody telling you what you should think. It comes from reading the science and trying to make your own conclusions.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 10/26/2010 at 09:23 PM.
  7. Micael's Avatar
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    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    Understanding science does not come from out-shouting the other person or putting words in another person's mouth or casting aspersions on an entire field. It comes from trying to understand it yourself rather than having someone else tell you what it means.

    you mean look past the facts and drink the koolaid
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    you mean look past the facts and drink the koolaid
    nope, I mean looking at the facts and forming your own conclusions, not what someone else tells you. Certainly not what some politician or idealogue wants you to believe.
  9. Micael's Avatar
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    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    nope, I mean looking at the facts and forming your own conclusions, not what someone else tells you. Certainly not what some politician or idealogue wants you to believe.
    done that. the debate is no more. it's settled, so to speak. some people don't seem to be able to admit it, I've discovered
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  10. jwinn35's Avatar
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    done that. the debate is no more. it's settled, so to speak. some people don't seem to be able to admit it, I've discovered
    some scientist may try and make a case for global warming but did you know that almost no meteorologist, or people who actually know something about weather and it's history, even come close to believing in global warming.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinn35 View Post
    almost no meteorologist, or people who actually know something about weather and it's history, even come close to believing in global warming.
    American Meteorological Society - the organization which oversees and credentials all meteorologists

    2007 statement
    "there is adequate evidence from observations and interpretations of climate simulations to conclude that the atmosphere, ocean, and land surface are warming; that humans have significantly contributed to this change; and that further climate change will continue to have important impacts on human societies, on economies, on ecosystems, and on wildlife through the 21st century and beyond"

    2009 statement
    "Human responsibility for most of the well-documented increase in global average temperatures over the last half century is well established. Further greenhouse gas emissions, particularly of carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuels, will almost certainly contribute to additional widespread climate changes that can be expected to cause major negative consequences for most nations"
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    #52  
    that's one statement from an organizaton if you look at many different articles they don't support it. The biggest holes in the ozone are over active volcanos. How is that our fault? Our contributions to any type of global warming is so miniscule it literally has almost no effect in comparison.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    American Meteorological Society - the organization which oversees and credentials all meteorologists

    2007 statement
    "there is adequate evidence from observations and interpretations of climate simulations to conclude that the atmosphere, ocean, and land surface are warming; that humans have significantly contributed to this change; and that further climate change will continue to have important impacts on human societies, on economies, on ecosystems, and on wildlife through the 21st century and beyond"

    2009 statement
    "Human responsibility for most of the well-documented increase in global average temperatures over the last half century is well established. Further greenhouse gas emissions, particularly of carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuels, will almost certainly contribute to additional widespread climate changes that can be expected to cause major negative consequences for most nations"
    just curious about something:
    we've apparently "decided" that the earth warms and cools enough to cause ice ages to come and go. a segment of the population has "decided" we are in a warming trend and that this is caused by man.

    let's assume all that for a moment, but it's odd that everyone is leaping to the conclusion that this is bad, really bad...

    so all the open minded people here should ask the question...

    what's the optimal temperature for the earth. at what point in the warming/cooling cycle are we at the optimum state?
    if we cooled it some, would we loose food production capacity in parts of the earth? might there be farms that would stop producing because it's too cold? might others near the equator become too hot?

    of if warming continues, would that open up new areas that could support people and crops? could siberia and south pole become the new breadbasket for the world? you know that fossil records indicate that the north pole was a tropical climate at one point, right?

    so how is it that warmer is automatically bad? maybe just a bit warmer would be good...

    I am not for polution or raping the environment, but if we stopped whining about climate change and focused those resources on clean water, renewable energy, etc... we might get somewhere. until we can prove what would be optimal and that the current trend would be all bad.

    just sayin
  14. Micael's Avatar
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinn35 View Post
    that's one statement from an organizaton if you look at many different articles they don't support it. The biggest holes in the ozone are over active volcanos. How is that our fault? Our contributions to any type of global warming is so miniscule it literally has almost no effect in comparison.
    great post.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinn35 View Post
    that's one statement from an organizaton if you look at many different articles they don't support it. The biggest holes in the ozone are over active volcanos. How is that our fault? Our contributions to any type of global warming is so miniscule it literally has almost no effect in comparison.
    Just another bit of information for you, a survey of over 1300 leading climate researchers showed that 97-98% agreed with the likelihood of human induced global warming and only 2-3% disagreed. Thats a pretty strong consensus to me.
    Expert credibility in climate change

    But that does not mean its settled and it does not mean we need to stop researching this area, and this does not mean we need to divert resources away from other areas like clean water.

    And this does not mean we should not talk about this ourselves, such as here in this forum. For example when you try to say ozone depletion leads to global warming, I would just say, its generally believed that ozone depletion does not increase global warming but rather it reduces it.

    But one thing we should stop doing is pretending that global warming is a major controversy amongst the scientific community when it really is not.


    I'm just saying......
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    so how is it that warmer is automatically bad?
    For your interest:

    NASA
    Environmental Protection Agency
    World Health Organization
    National Institutes of Health

    and if you are interested in children's health you might want to look at
    EPA: global warming and children, and American Academy of Pediatrics on Children and Global warming.
  17. Micael's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by foosball View Post
    Anyone who was even mildly conscious in the 70's when they were claiming we were headed for the next ice age would realize that this stuff is cyclical and dependent on where government grants are being dispensed. Follow the money.

    The sooner people realize this instead of being emotionally swept up in the cause "de jour" the sooner this junk science will subside.
    Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

    This post nails it.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  18. #58  
    I know I sound boring agreeing with 97% of the leading climate experts, but anyway rock on dude, you're such a rebel Micael.
    And if you ever do want to read up on this, the links are below. Best wishes, cell
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 11/01/2010 at 02:08 PM. Reason: corrected spelling of Micael's name
  19. Micael's Avatar
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    I know I sound boring agreeing with 97% of the leading climate experts, but anyway rock on dude, you're such a rebel Michael.
    And if you ever do want to read up on this, the links are below. Best wishes, cell
    It's Micael. And this is supposed to be about science, not how many people believe in one politicized ideal versus another.

    I guess you're too young to remember the mini ice age "most scientists" were screaming about in the early to mid 70s. It didn't happen. And our air and water quality is much greater now than it was then.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    It's Micael. And this is supposed to be about science, not how many people believe in one politicized ideal versus another.

    I guess you're too young to remember the mini ice age "most scientists" were screaming about in the early to mid 70s. It didn't happen. And our air and water quality is much greater now than it was then.
    lol and the other global crisis that was looming was overpopulation.

    I got extra credit for going to a huge seminar where we learned that the earth couldn't support projected population by the time we reached...a few years ago... Didn't happen either.

    but just in case, lets warm up the earth so we can farm siberia and antartica...
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