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  1.    #1  
    It would raise patriotism and educational standards. It would make citizens take a higher interest in world affairs and politics. It would make society in general stronger, both physically and mentally, and it would make our government officials less trigger-happy. Foreign countries would be less likely to attack America and it would become impossible to take our great country over. Our society would be completely reformed back into a strong nation again.

    Upon leaving high school men and women are required, by law, to join the military for at least two years. There is no choice in the matter; if they don't go they get the same rights as a felon. Yes, when a person goes into the military they lose certain rights for a little while, but is that necessarily bad? No. If they have never had their basic rights taken from them they will never place as high a value on those rights, or on the sacrifice their ancestors made to give them those rights. It is a growing problem in America for people to take their rights for granted. Take peoples rights away temporarily and people start to value what they have more; and they start to value their country more. Patriotism will be on the rise.

    The men and women that leave high school will have to get an assessment test on their knowledge and intelligence levels. Naturally, they studied hard in school so that they could place high and choose what job they would have; so they could choose where they would be on the battlefield. Of Course, they (and their parents) would take school more seriously they do now, their futures would depend on it. These days a high school diploma is just a pretty decoration you get after twelve years of being babysat. People would become more serious about how their children were taught. How much money and supplies would schools receive in order to teach their children? A lot more then they do now. How much respect would teachers finally receive? A lot more then they do now. Hoe many children would get lost in the shuffle educationally? A lot less then they do now.

    After selecting or being placed into a field, the people would go to basic training. This would install discipline, physical fitness, pride, and self-esteem. It would teach them that they could achieve anything they set their minds to. How many people in America could use those traits? Our society would shed the flabby Athenian traits and become a well oiled Spartan machine. How many Americans could have benefited from those four traits when they were first starting out in life? How far would America be today if we were all physically and mentally fit when we first started out?

    After going through basic training, they would be required to serve at least two years in the armed forces. In that amount of time, they get to travel the world, learning about other cultures and world events. They gain a wealth of knowledge from their travels. They learn that the rest o the world does not have it as good as we do, and to not take our great nation for granted. They carry this knowledge about world events and cultures with them to teach their children, making the world less America centric to Americans.

    Because people would be required to become physically fit, (in order to survive in the military) obesity levels in America would drop causing medical problems associated with it to drop. In addition Americans would be near impossible to surprise because they would all be knowledgeable of combat techniques. No one would dare attempt an invasion, because every man women and child would know how to defend themselves.

    *The presidents children are in the military; congresses children are in the military. How fast would they be to go to war with the knowledge that their children would be deployed? Not as fast as they were willing to in the past. The government would defiantly become more willing to look at other options before leaping headfirst into a major conflict. There would be more protests from congress if the president went crazy and decided to charge into a foreign country.

    *The effects of making military service mandatory are numerously good. A chain reaction would take place and American society would reform itself. We would become less ignorant of the world around us. Fewer people would burn flags and take America for granted. American government would be less likely to jump into a war. The children would not be lost educationally and schools would receive better funding. Obesity levels would drop dramatically, reducing health problems associated with unhealthy lifestyle. America would become stronger, mentally and physically due to a chain of events created by making military service mandatory.



    So what do you think?
  2. #2  
    I'm all for it.
  3. #3  
    sound like Israel
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  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    I'm all for it.
    I think its a great idea, my whole family has served except me and I wanted to so badly but my record growing up was very bad and they just kept saying no.
  5. #5  
    I couldn't have if I'd wanted to, though they all wanted me to enlist, because of my test scores.

    For my son, I'd rather he go to college.
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  6.    #6  
    my son is 14 and wants to go makes me nervous but very proud.
  7. #7  
    My 15 year old is dead set on college and I'm happy about that!
    Sent from my favorite gadget!
  8. #8  
    Honest opinion??? Hope you don't take offence, but you DID ask for it

    I joined the Canadian Infantry at age 17, I needed a parent's signature to get in (1992). Four days out of highschool, I was in boot camp. Rather hellish at that age, from a class of 40, we were down to 24 by the end. A few weeks afterwards, we ended up going over to Narvik/Bodo area of Norway for a big NATO exercise, a "What if Russia were to invade Norway from the north--type of scenario"..

    Norway is a conscription-country, mandatory 2 years for all. From what I experienced, none of these "conscript-recruits" had ANY interest in being there. They were paid a meager salary barely enough to support a smoking habit if they had one. Basically they had food, shelter and less than $100/month. I saw "soldiers" with pony tails down to their waists, these guys weren't soldiers, they were CONSCRIPTS....big, BIG difference.

    Honestly, say you were a willing, volunteer soldier, and you had an unwilling, but still shows up kinda guy conscript that was supposed to have your back, would you trust him??? I probably wouldn't.

    A friend of mine that was in my boot camp back then got out, became a journeyman machinest, re-joined the military and he said the way of thinking has drastically changed since we both were in boot camp.

    Now, once you sign up, you're not locked in anymore, they are steering away from recruiting kids straight out of highschool, most of the under-20 year olds failed boot camp. The doctrine now is at ANY time, if you don't want to be here.....there's the door. The onus is on the indivdual to decide if he/she really wants to be there. No sense in wasting tax payers dollars on keeping someone in if they don't want to anymore. The amount of yelling and screaming that occurs in boot camp also drastically reduced. Basically when you start, they lay it on the line...you have a certain amount of performance objectives that must be met. If you fail X amount of objectives(ie inspections, drill, physical education, rifle range, battle drills etc), then you're out.

    They want a slightly older, slightly more mature, more dedicated type of miltary, and I totally agree with that.

    I'm kinda rambling on here but you get the gist of what I'm saying. We live in a free society here in North America, free to do a lot of things, including joining the military or not.

    I just wiki'ed conscription armies and found an interesting point:

    No army can work without discipline. The discipline can either arise from the esprit de corps motivation of the soldiers, or be imposed and pressed on the troops. Volunteers seldom have disciplinary problems, but people pressed into the service against their will have little other motivation to serve than personal survival. As motivation is based on coercion, the discipline in conscript armies is often harsh, and punishments severe.

    Consequently, conscript armies are more likely to mutiny than all-volunteer forces, and can in extreme cases turn against their own, the Vlasov army being the ultimate example. Discipline problems become especially problematic when the ablest youth are forced to serve against their will under the authority of people they consider untalented, unfit, or simply because of unquestioned authority. This was seldom a problem in the period of Industrialism when only the upper social classes had access to higher education, but proved problematic in the Vietnam War when college students were conscripted to fight as privates under non-commissioned officers who seldom had any higher education. As the troops felt they were being led into danger by leaders less intelligent than themselves morale sank low, leading to an erosion of discipline, culminating in violence and even murders.


    Something to think about anyways
    Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2 about anything. I may however, give a nickel
  9. #9  
    I'd rather go to college then fight in a corrupted army.
  10. #10  
    I'm an USAF veteran of the Cold War.
    I also often think about some kind of mandatory service, but I've also grown up around people who would not be able to serve in the military due to their religion. So my idea includes "AmeriCorps" and "The Peace Corps".
    Having this discussion with my wife the other night convinced me that even with those options people would be resentful.
    Conscripts WON'T care about doing a good job, just doing their time (as Sledge007 noted).

    If you want to read about an idealized version of mandatory service, read "Starship Troopers". I love that concept, but I don't think it could work in our reality.
  11. #11  
    Your idea sounds good, in theory, but then again so does communism. There is no way congress/the president/the upper 10% of society would support anything like that for themselves, even when there was a draft this site shows just which politicians actually served and the number speaks for itself.
    Last edited by 063_xobx; 10/03/2010 at 09:49 PM.
  12. #12  
    I am all for it, 100% Base it off Switzerland's model. After you leave you are still armed as a type of militia and can be called upon if needed.
  13. #13  
    War is a racket. I call dibs on being the first suicide (of many) if this policy ever gets enacted. For now I'll stick to my Athenian traits like, I dunno... thinking.
  14. #14  
    Parts of the idea have merit but parts of it sound rather totalitarian.
  15. #15  
    I've never read the book, but have seen the movie several times, interesting that it happened to be on television tonight, perhaps the reason it was mentioned and/or the thread started. I was always under the impression that it was a futuristic vision of a fascist society, which as I look up different write ups concerning reviews/ideaology/underlying messages etc, is confirmed. If you watch the movie, tell yourself the society represents **** Germany(not hard to do with their eerily similar SS uniforms), the way they propagandacize the 'aliens', I don't understand how that could be seen as idealized.....for who? the society? or the government?

    Taking that all into consideration, by saying that you love the concept....what does that really mean TVS?
  16. Micael's Avatar
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    #16  
    after 13 years active duty, some of it served with draftees and some with all volunteer, I can say that from my experience a volunteer military is the way to go. You get a higher caliber of people in the volunteer system, and they have a higher morale and are highly motivated. This translates to a more efficiently run and therefore more cost effective system. Conscripts are just doing their time and could care less about efficiency and striving for excellence.

    your points all look good on paper, and argue well at civy dinner parties and backyard bbq's. It's not as practical as it seems though.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. #17  
    The idea of serving your country is a good one. Forcing everyone to do it militarily is not.
  18.    #18  
    no offense taken, in fact I have a very high respect for those who would lay down their life to help someone else. I wish more people thought about how we stay free and the sacrifices involved with that concept. Both volunteer and mandatory military have their good and bad points. I found that article and thought it was an interesting subject to discuss. I look at some of the struggles we face as a society today and wonder where it is all leading. Kids shooting each other for drugs, territory, and what ever else they think is just. Drop outs, rape , murder, illegitiment kids, drugs, alcoholism, unemployment, all kinds of things and I wonder how we got here. We have lost our sense of pride, our our drive to be better and our respect for our neighbor.

    I really believe that if a young man or woman witnesses first hand what it takes to keep us free that maybe they would understand the things that really matter most in life. Its a hard pill to swallow when you think about it, the fact that in order to have peace we at times have to be violent. It has been this way forever and its very likely that it will never change. Imo military service offers dicsipline and and a start in the right direction. I've been a martial artist for a long while now and I can tell you that because of the structure in military arts it has changed who I am in every area of my life. So in turn I believe that while mandatory service has its draw backs, the good still out weighs the bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by sledge007 View Post
    Honest opinion??? Hope you don't take offence, but you DID ask for it

    I joined the Canadian Infantry at age 17, I needed a parent's signature to get in (1992). Four days out of highschool, I was in boot camp. Rather hellish at that age, from a class of 40, we were down to 24 by the end. A few weeks afterwards, we ended up going over to Narvik/Bodo area of Norway for a big NATO exercise, a "What if Russia were to invade Norway from the north--type of scenario"..

    Norway is a conscription-country, mandatory 2 years for all. From what I experienced, none of these "conscript-recruits" had ANY interest in being there. They were paid a meager salary barely enough to support a smoking habit if they had one. Basically they had food, shelter and less than $100/month. I saw "soldiers" with pony tails down to their waists, these guys weren't soldiers, they were CONSCRIPTS....big, BIG difference.

    Honestly, say you were a willing, volunteer soldier, and you had an unwilling, but still shows up kinda guy conscript that was supposed to have your back, would you trust him??? I probably wouldn't.

    A friend of mine that was in my boot camp back then got out, became a journeyman machinest, re-joined the military and he said the way of thinking has drastically changed since we both were in boot camp.

    Now, once you sign up, you're not locked in anymore, they are steering away from recruiting kids straight out of highschool, most of the under-20 year olds failed boot camp. The doctrine now is at ANY time, if you don't want to be here.....there's the door. The onus is on the indivdual to decide if he/she really wants to be there. No sense in wasting tax payers dollars on keeping someone in if they don't want to anymore. The amount of yelling and screaming that occurs in boot camp also drastically reduced. Basically when you start, they lay it on the line...you have a certain amount of performance objectives that must be met. If you fail X amount of objectives(ie inspections, drill, physical education, rifle range, battle drills etc), then you're out.

    They want a slightly older, slightly more mature, more dedicated type of miltary, and I totally agree with that.

    I'm kinda rambling on here but you get the gist of what I'm saying. We live in a free society here in North America, free to do a lot of things, including joining the military or not.

    I just wiki'ed [url= armies[/url] and found an interesting point:

    No army can work without discipline. The discipline can either arise from the esprit de corps motivation of the soldiers, or be imposed and pressed on the troops. Volunteers seldom have disciplinary problems, but people pressed into the service against their will have little other motivation to serve than personal survival. As motivation is based on coercion, the discipline in conscript armies is often harsh, and punishments severe.

    Consequently, conscript armies are more likely to mutiny than all-volunteer forces, and can in extreme cases turn against their own, the Vlasov army being the ultimate example. Discipline problems become especially problematic when the ablest youth are forced to serve against their will under the authority of people they consider untalented, unfit, or simply because of unquestioned authority. This was seldom a problem in the period of Industrialism when only the upper social classes had access to higher education, but proved problematic in the Vietnam War when college students were conscripted to fight as privates under non-commissioned officers who seldom had any higher education. As the troops felt they were being led into danger by leaders less intelligent than themselves morale sank low, leading to an erosion of discipline, culminating in violence and even murders.


    Something to think about anyways
    Last edited by switchedgear; 10/04/2010 at 12:18 PM.
  19.    #19  
    arrrrggghhh just went to edit a long post and hit delete! Crap! Anyhow the gist was to say thankyou to those who have served and say that imo both volunteer and mandatory have good and bad points to them.
    Its hard for me to speak because I have never served but I do see big big issues with our society today and wonder if doing something like this for a generation might help fix some of it.
  20. Slow_S10's Avatar
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    #20  
    I like where your heart is on this argument but the down side is going to be that instead of better preparing our teens we will just be babysitting them for another 2 years but now with more yelling and weapons.

    The reason that our military is so strong is because of the people who are in it and we have high standards for a reason. The people who actually want to be there and give a damn about protecting our country and way of life are going to be infinitely more valuable than someone who is just there because they were told to be. I was in the Marine Corps for 6 years and I know I could trust the Marines around me with my life and they could trust me with theirs. I doubt I would be able to say the same if those other Marines had been forced to be there and didn't really care.

    Like I said before I like where your heart is on this but in reality that responsibility needs to fall back on the parents. If you want to have fit, responsible, respectful, disciplined children who grow up to be high functioning members of society.. well then the parents need to step up and instill those values in their children. Instead we have lazy parents who are more concerned about their own desires and comfort. They just do the bare minimum to raise their kids until they can move out of the house... then they are society's problem. That may be a little extreme but that's basically what it boils down to. If parents were actually involved in their children's lives and took an active roll in teaching them values and actually disciplining them. Our country would be a much better place. I could go on and on with this but I need to stop before I get too carried away.

    Bottom line it is not the government's job to raise our children.
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