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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by switchedgear View Post
    how can you say that when this country was founded by fighting for our rights? So we just let crazy men run about the world and do what they want until they get to us?
    We shouldn't be the world's police force.
  2. #62  
    People lose more and more of those freedoms the original settlers fought for every day...

    Soon, the only freedom Americans will have left is the freedom from thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by switchedgear View Post
    how can you say that when this country was founded by fighting for our rights? So we just let crazy men run about the world and do what they want until they get to us?
  3. Micael's Avatar
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    #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    We shouldn't be the world's police force.
    Yeah, that's why we pay for the UN. It's their job!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4.    #64  
    so tell me should we have just let h.itler do his thing then?
  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by switchedgear View Post
    so tell me should we have just let h.itler do his thing then?
    Actually, for a long time we tried to do just that. We started out 'neutral' and we were dragged in reluctantly.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6.    #66  
    if we would have stayed out of it, it would have been even more tragic if that's possible. With that attitude I think I would find someone else to back me in a fight.
  7. Micael's Avatar
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    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by switchedgear View Post
    if we would have stayed out of it, it would have been even more tragic if that's possible. With that attitude I think I would find someone else to back me in a fight.
    I'm not saying we shouldn't have gotten involved. I'm just stating what happened.

    So, should we have taken h.tler out before he fully ramped up?

    How would your answer relate today with the situation of Iran?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  8. #68  
    You don't know what you're talking about, guys...

    We had until 2000 or so a mandatory military service, and I can tell you that it supposes 0 benefits to anyone.

    People spends it's time as well as they can, and as fast as they can reach, just that.

    --Sent using Tap@Talk for webOS
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  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by switchedgear View Post
    how can you say that when this country was founded by fighting for our rights?
    By people who abhorred the idea of a standing army. If one were to propose mandatory military training so that the citizenry would be trained in how to defend our lands in the unlikely event that a foreign power would try to invade us, I would be OK with that.
    So we just let crazy men run about the world and do what they want until they get to us?
    I'd honestly rather that than creating crazy men running about the world because we need to keep up the levels of enlistment and production.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  10.    #70  
    ah so its a conspiracy to create revenue?
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by switchedgear View Post
    ah so its a conspiracy to create revenue?
    Depends on how you define conspiracy. Can it really be a conspiracy if it's televised on CSPAN? This is not an original concept.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  12.    #72  
    so let me get this right, you support the idea that we start wars to generate money, so we are murderers, instead of the money generated being a biproduct of the war?
  13. #73  
    Why is it so hard to believe that people dont start wars to "do the right thing"?

    Fact of the matter is, nearly every war in history was started for the wrong reasons. And the things that drive war these days are far from what they were before... its been religion, territory, money... POWER... is what drives countries to war. I was in the private sector, and I can freely tell you nearly every job we got sent on was for ulterior motives.

    Toby isnt saying we SHOULD start wars to generate revenue... he is saying we DO start wars to generate revenue.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by switchedgear View Post
    so let me get this right, you support the idea that we start wars to generate money, so we are murderers, instead of the money generated being a biproduct of the war?
    No, I no more support that idea than you support the idea that everyone should be forced to spend two years of their lives traveling to new places, meeting interesting people, and killing them. Is it really productive to put that sort of spin on another person's point-of-view?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluewanders View Post
    Toby isnt saying we SHOULD start wars to generate revenue... he is saying we DO start wars to generate revenue.
    I'm not really saying that. I'm more saying that since World War II, the US has maintained a military readiness stance that is unprecedented in US history. Eisenhower cautioned against letting this partnership between military and industry influences grow too ingrained in our society. It becomes a feedback loop. We spend a lot of money because there are 'threats' in the world. We send lives and treasure overseas to deal with the 'threat'. This makes us a target of distrust and animosity for 'showing our strength'. So we need to spend more money because there are 'threats' in the world. I don't see how mandatory military service would do anything other than increase the feedback.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  16. solarus's Avatar
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    #76  
    THIS IS not SPARTA

    I think we can accomplish a lot of what you want via other methods. Like others have said, your heart is in the right place I just don't think a mandatory military service is needed or a good idea as a whole, not for a country the size of the U.S. anyway.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I'm not really saying that. I'm more saying that since World War II, the US has maintained a military readiness stance that is unprecedented in US history. Eisenhower cautioned against letting this partnership between military and industry influences grow too ingrained in our society. It becomes a feedback loop. We spend a lot of money because there are 'threats' in the world. We send lives and treasure overseas to deal with the 'threat'. This makes us a target of distrust and animosity for 'showing our strength'. So we need to spend more money because there are 'threats' in the world. I don't see how mandatory military service would do anything other than increase the feedback.
    I think we could debate all day about why the US maintains such heightened readiness... but that isnt a point of the conversation. I do apologize for misreading your comments though. Coming from the private sector, I have a different view of combat than most people, and a rather negative view of the people in power.

    I think you are right about the feedback... however if you take a look at those in power... most of them have very strong ties with big business... and big business has a big presence anywhere power gathers. People like that create threats to serve their motives.

    Back to mandatory military service though... I can see where it would have some benefits on an individual level... but on the societal level I see no real benefit that outweighs the negatives.
  18. #78  
    Sorry about how you feel with regards to the 'crazies' out there in the world 'out to get you'. I think there are better solutions out there than 'seek & destroy' (although that IS a killer song ) Personally, I think if I grew up in a dirt-poor country, living in a mud shack or cave, didn't have education, clothing, food, medicine, etc. I'd be pretty pi$$ed at the world too. 3 TRILLION dollars = $3 000 000 000 000. That's a lot of money, resources, LIVES, for something that was put out there to stop the forces of evil and find the weapons of mass destruction. 10 years after the fact, and still no WMD's. Where did they go? They must have taken them back from where they bought them or maybe their shelf life expired and they simply evaporated. (sorry about the sarcasm) I think if anything all that was accomplished... it fueled the fire for yet another generation of Western haters, it did see the creation of the Homeland Security Act( do you feel safer now?), we saw privatized armies created (Blackwater), almost forgot about the colour coded alert levels.... I really do hope something positve was gained out of it all, aside from securing resources, cause really... that's what it was all about wasn't it? Oh and we got Saddam executed.....hate him as much as you will, at least he kept his country in check. I was watching a news report a couple of days before the withdraw and it seemed to me that the general public in Iraq were pretty nervous about what was going to happen when the US finally left. I'm rambling here so just on a final note... Instead of spending 3 trillion dollars to fight tyranny, couldn't we have spent the same amount of money both abroad and at home to improve everyone's lives (ie build some schools/hospitals/give them what they need to be able to support themselves/fix New Orleans(5 years later and it still isn't done) )
  19.    #79  
    ok so we may not all agree with each other but I'll tell ya something........ I'd drink a beer with any of ya and I would damn sure have your back if you needed it! I love you guys man. Lmao.
  20. #80  
    this I s
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