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  1. #41  
    We're straying off topic from conscription to healthcare and general health, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em they say. Here's a solution ( I know, I stole it, but it's good ):

  2. jwinn35's Avatar
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    #42  
    sounds good to me even though I wasn't particularly happy when I was in the military but I had awife and kids before going in and I didn't know just how much I'd miss them. I always said if I was single I'd have loved it. Give everyone the gi bill and then after two years majority of people who would have never went to college are now going. Look at switzerland they have mandatory military and when they are done they take their assault rifle home with them and that's a very safe country. They als have every way in or out by ground wired to blow in a moments notice if anyone ever tried attacking them. Just smart if you ask me.
  3. jwinn35's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Yeah, that evil health care interfering with your self-esteem. That really sucks, doesn't it? It's much better to have kids that have lots of self esteem and can't get their asthma treated. And it has so much in common with wars and Wall Street, too, doesn't it? GMAFB
    funny everytime I see your name on a post I dnt even need to read it cause I know what it's going to say. All I have to do is watch cnn or msnbc to know what it is. I'm a republican but I can admit a stupid idea when I see it no matter where it comes from.
  4. #44  
    Land of the free: each person has the freedom to make the choice to serve or not.
    I see pandas.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by sledge007 View Post
    Honest opinion??? Hope you don't take offence, but you DID ask for it

    I joined the Canadian Infantry at age 17, I needed a parent's signature to get in (1992). Four days out of highschool, I was in boot camp. Rather hellish at that age, from a class of 40, we were down to 24 by the end. A few weeks afterwards, we ended up going over to Narvik/Bodo area of Norway for a big NATO exercise, a "What if Russia were to invade Norway from the north--type of scenario"..

    Norway is a conscription-country, mandatory 2 years for all. From what I experienced, none of these "conscript-recruits" had ANY interest in being there. They were paid a meager salary barely enough to support a smoking habit if they had one. Basically they had food, shelter and less than $100/month. I saw "soldiers" with pony tails down to their waists, these guys weren't soldiers, they were CONSCRIPTS....big, BIG difference.

    Honestly, say you were a willing, volunteer soldier, and you had an unwilling, but still shows up kinda guy conscript that was supposed to have your back, would you trust him??? I probably wouldn't.

    A friend of mine that was in my boot camp back then got out, became a journeyman machinest, re-joined the military and he said the way of thinking has drastically changed since we both were in boot camp.

    Now, once you sign up, you're not locked in anymore, they are steering away from recruiting kids straight out of highschool, most of the under-20 year olds failed boot camp. The doctrine now is at ANY time, if you don't want to be here.....there's the door. The onus is on the indivdual to decide if he/she really wants to be there. No sense in wasting tax payers dollars on keeping someone in if they don't want to anymore. The amount of yelling and screaming that occurs in boot camp also drastically reduced. Basically when you start, they lay it on the line...you have a certain amount of performance objectives that must be met. If you fail X amount of objectives(ie inspections, drill, physical education, rifle range, battle drills etc), then you're out.

    They want a slightly older, slightly more mature, more dedicated type of miltary, and I totally agree with that.

    I'm kinda rambling on here but you get the gist of what I'm saying. We live in a free society here in North America, free to do a lot of things, including joining the military or not.

    I just wiki'ed conscription armies and found an interesting point:

    No army can work without discipline. The discipline can either arise from the esprit de corps motivation of the soldiers, or be imposed and pressed on the troops. Volunteers seldom have disciplinary problems, but people pressed into the service against their will have little other motivation to serve than personal survival. As motivation is based on coercion, the discipline in conscript armies is often harsh, and punishments severe.

    Consequently, conscript armies are more likely to mutiny than all-volunteer forces, and can in extreme cases turn against their own, the Vlasov army being the ultimate example. Discipline problems become especially problematic when the ablest youth are forced to serve against their will under the authority of people they consider untalented, unfit, or simply because of unquestioned authority. This was seldom a problem in the period of Industrialism when only the upper social classes had access to higher education, but proved problematic in the Vietnam War when college students were conscripted to fight as privates under non-commissioned officers who seldom had any higher education. As the troops felt they were being led into danger by leaders less intelligent than themselves morale sank low, leading to an erosion of discipline, culminating in violence and even murders.


    Something to think about anyways
    the difference is the israelites teach their children from a very young age the way of their laws and bread into them their whole lives and they have been doing this for a very long time , but also they take care of their people very well indeed.
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  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwinn35 View Post
    funny everytime I see your name on a post I dnt even need to read it cause I know what it's going to say. All I have to do is watch cnn or msnbc to know what it is. I'm a republican but I can admit a stupid idea when I see it no matter where it comes from.
    Yeah, funny like that. When I see your name, I just load Fox News talking points.
  7. #47  
    How about we just kill off 323 people each year and call it even?
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by verwon View Post
    irateb is well aware that some of us have health problems purely through heredity and nothing we could have done or anything we learned would've prevented them.

    However, there is also a huge percentage of people who could prevent theirs if they were properly educated or bothered to learn. Every time I got to my appt at the cardiac center, there is at least one other person there who is suffering, because they will not bother to learn proper diet and nutritionn.

    Military service doesn't teach this stuff, either!
    Nobody in their right mind would argue with you...but there are more who don't contribute to their own poor health. There aren't many asthmatic children who contribute to their own poor health; neither do those with leukemia. They still need care. And everybody needs to be educated about healthy lifestyles. That's why it should be in every health plan. Like this one.

    While many are focused on the effect the recent healthcare bill will have on insurance and coverage, a number of other health provisions are included. Obesity prevention and treatment is among these.
    Healthcare reform bill tackles obesity - National obesity | Examiner.com
  9. tsnum4's Avatar
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    #49  
    absolutley not, the goverment has too much say the way it is.
  10. #50  
    OP make s a huge amount of positive claims that are the result of military service. These claims are just not based of any sort of real information or facts. It's a bunch of bias, one sided speculation. For example, I see no connection between being in the military and being interested in world affairs. I'm in a navy and it seems to have a similar amount of dumb ignorant Americans that the rest of the country has.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by kill_Dano View Post
    For example, I see no connection between being in the military and being interested in world affairs. I'm in a navy and it seems to have a similar amount of dumb ignorant Americans that the rest of the country has.
    I knew a lot of dumb ignorant people in the Air Force when I was in too. BUT being in the service, especially overseas, opened MY mind.
    The easiest aspect of that to relate is my appreciation of music. In high school I ONLY liked Rock'n'roll. Everything else sucked.
    Well, when the only radio that speaks English is the Armed Forces Radio Network and they play EVERYTHING, you listen to everything.
    To this day, I still listen to all music. Don't appreciate it all, but I'll still give it a try.
    I like to think my attitude about more important subjects were also expanded, but those are harder to explain.
  12.    #52  
    I say you either do 2 in the service or 2 in jail, either way its a life lesson.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by switchedgear View Post
    I say you either do 2 in the service or 2 in jail, either way its a life lesson.
    Well, given you didn't serve, you either spent two years in jail or you have a lot to learn. I'm betting on the latter.
    Last edited by davidra; 10/05/2010 at 03:16 PM.
  14. #54  
    Its simply is not needed in the USA. In time of war if needed a draft would be used. We have a population of 312 million and it would cost to much money and be useless for us to have everyone serve in the military for a period of time. The military is even down sizing now because of our economy and budget cuts. Israel has a population of 7 million so they can do that and it works.

    On a side note I was in the navy 4 years and army 2. We need to pay our service members more and somehow help them enter life as civilians. I am unemployed now and things that people do when young are harder for a person who's gotta come back and start over. All the military has done is put everyone else ahead of me.
  15.    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Well, given you didn't serve, you either spent two years in jail or you have a lot to learn. I'm betting on the latter.
    nope 2 years in jail when I turned 18
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by switchedgear View Post
    nope 2 years in jail when I turned 18
    your better off
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by switchedgear View Post
    It would raise patriotism and educational standards.
    I'm not sure how mandatory military service would accomplish either of these.

    If you are forced into military service, why would you feel more love for the country that forced you into service?

    If the problem with our educational system is federal involvement (as some suggest), why would having more federal involvement help?
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  18.    #58  
    I don't believe this is "more" government involvement, I see it as you are a citizen and are participating in keeping your freedom. I also believe that if you are trying to gain citizenship you should have to serve in a non intelligence position for two years before being legal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby View Post
    I'm not sure how mandatory military service would accomplish either of these.

    If you are forced into military service, why would you feel more love for the country that forced you into service?

    If the problem with our educational system is federal involvement (as some suggest), why would having more federal involvement help?
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by switchedgear View Post
    I don't believe this is "more" government involvement, I see it as you are a citizen and are participating in keeping your freedom. I also believe that if you are trying to gain citizenship you should have to serve in a non intelligence position for two years before being legal.
    I think the flaw in the concept is that 'keeping/protecting our freedom' has become a catch phrase for feeding the military-industrial complex/religion.
    ‎"Is that suck and salvage the Kevin Costner method?" - Chris Matthews on Hardball, July 6, 2010. Wonder if he's talking about his oil device or his movie career...
  20.    #60  
    how can you say that when this country was founded by fighting for our rights? So we just let crazy men run about the world and do what they want until they get to us?
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