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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    There's a difference between doing things to fix the problems in healthcare, and taking control of healthcare. Not going far enough can mean that what was done didn't address enough of the issues, if at all. Tort reform anyone?
    Wouldn't Tort reform be something the States could tackle on their own without Federal influence?
  2. Micael's Avatar
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    #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Wouldn't Tort reform be something the States could tackle on their own without Federal influence?
    IMHO, states are definitely best at handling things that effect them locally and day-to-day like education, transportation, energy (yes, there's some national issues in these too) - but where a one-size-fits-all policy isn't as effective within locally understood issues. Tort reform should be consistent across the country. It's kind of like issues such as gay marriage, race relations, abortion - some things can only be effectively addressed at the national level.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    So.... what's up with the socialist mecca Spain? Wow.
    LOL Way to cherry-pick one of the three countries that is doing worse than the US!
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

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  4. Micael's Avatar
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    #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    LOL Way to cherry-pick one of the three countries that is doing worse than the US!
    Cherry pick harr!!! They're like double and triple most of the other countries listed! Seriously, what's with Spain. I really am wondering if an anyone is up with what's causing twice the unemployment there.

    (wait.... do they have single payer?)
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  5. #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    IMHO, states are definitely best at handling things that effect them locally and day-to-day like education, transportation, energy (yes, there's some national issues in these too) - but where a one-size-fits-all policy isn't as effective within locally understood issues. Tort reform should be consistent across the country. It's kind of like issues such as gay marriage, race relations, abortion - some things can only be effectively addressed at the national level.
    So it has the same level of complexity that healthcare has requiring a nationally standardized solution. Of course Tort goes into MANY more sectors than just the healthcare industry.
  6. Micael's Avatar
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    #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    So it has the same level of complexity that healthcare has requiring a nationally standardized solution. Of course Tort goes into MANY more sectors than just the healthcare industry.
    I'm certainly no expert. I've been told though that it's driven physician liability insurance through the roof. Is this not the case?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I'm certainly no expert. I've been told though that it's driven physician liability insurance through the roof. Is this not the case?
    If that's the only part of Tort reform you're concerned with that could actually be tackled by the States. CA passed a law relating to that specific portion of Tort that I've heard cited as a potential model by proponents. And of course not all States even have issues with tort abuse in healthcare.
  8. #148  
    And then I have a question what is this big thing about "allowing insurance sales across state boarders"? Is there something that's preventing that other than the company not having a license to operate in a particular state and possibly the whole "out-of-network" issue that really isn't related to state boarders?
  9. Micael's Avatar
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    #149  
    And so the shake up begins.....


    Harvard Pilgrim cancels Medicare Advantage plan
    By Robert Weisman, Globe Staff | September 28, 2010

    Harvard Pilgrim Health Care has notified customers that it will drop its Medicare Advantage health insurance program at the end of the year, forcing 22,000 senior citizens in Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Maine to seek alternative supplemental coverage.

    The decision by Wellesley-based Harvard Pilgrim, the state’s second-largest health insurer, was prompted by a freeze in federal reimbursements and a new requirement that insurers offering the kind of product sold by Harvard Pilgrim — a Medicare Advantage private fee for service plan — form a contracted network of doctors who agree to participate for a negotiated amount of money. Under current rules, patients can seek care from any doctor.

    “We became concerned by the long-term viability of Medicare Advantage programs in general,’’ said Lynn Bowman, vice president of customer service at Harvard Pilgrim’s office in Quincy. “We know that cuts in Medicare are being used to fund national health care reform. And we also had concerns about our ability to build a network of health care providers that would meet the needs of our seniors.’’

    Under Medicare Advantage plans, the federal government pays private health insurers to sell customers over 65 years old enhanced policies, many of which offer prescription drug coverage not covered by standard Medicare. But the US Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services has been seeking to reduce the amount it pays to private insurers for such programs.

    Medicare told Harvard Pilgrim to notify customers that its Medicare Advantage program, known as First Seniority Freedom, was being canceled. In a mailing, the insurer was required to list alternative Medicare Advantage plans, including those offered by its competitors.

    Harvard Pilgrim in a second mailing this week will urge customers to switch to a new Medicare Supplement plan it will begin offering in October. Unlike Medicare Advantage, which is overseen by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, the new Harvard Pilgrim plan will be overseen by the Massachusetts Division of Insurance.

    It will be “slightly more expensive’’ than the Medicare Advantage plans, but competitive with supplemental insurance plans offered by rivals such as Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts, the state’s largest health insurer, Bowman said.

    She said the Medicare Supplement plan will feature some benefits not covered by the current plan, such as fitness reimbursements, but won’t pay for prescription drugs, which are covered by some versions of the current plan. Instead, seniors can buy separate supplemental drug coverage through a partnership with Coventry Health Care, in Bethesda, Md.

    As of yesterday afternoon, about 1,000 customers had sought information about the product change.

    Newton resident Robert Gray, 68, a retired computer engineer and technology researcher, said he was disturbed to find out his plan was being discontinued. But he said he prefers to remain with Harvard Pilgrim because he is a longtime customer.

    “If there’s a big increase in price or the various options in the new plan don’t seem to be the same . . . we might consider going to another plan,’’ Gray said.

    More than 60 percent of senior citizens in Massachusetts are covered only by Medicare, according to Harvard Pilgrim research. Those who buy supplemental insurance are divided roughly evenly between Medicare Advantage and Medicare Supplement plans.

    Robert Weisman can be reached at weisman@globe.com.

    © Copyright 2010 The New York Times Company
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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    #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Sure, just show me how you would word it. Are you suggesting that someone would fit in your "do less" category and still think the law didn't go far enough? If it's a law, it's government that's doing it, right? Just where are these "do lesses"?
    So, assuming the poll is correct, 40% think the law didn’t go far enough. Those are the “do-mores”. Another 20% think the government should not be in health care at all. Those are the “get-outs”. That leaves 40% somewhere in the middle. The “do-less” crown would obviously contain the “get-outs” so that number would be 20% minimum but probably much, much more.
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Cherry pick harr!!! They're like double and triple most of the other countries listed! Seriously, what's with Spain. I really am wondering if an anyone is up with what's causing twice the unemployment there.

    (wait.... do they have single payer?)
    No, they have socialized healthcare but it is not the reason for their struggling economy.

    What about all of those countries on that link I posted that do have single payer/universal healthcare that are doing better than the US?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

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  12. Micael's Avatar
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    #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    No, they have socialized healthcare but it is not the reason for their struggling economy.

    What about all of those countries on that link I posted that do have single payer/universal healthcare that are doing better than the US?
    I guess I'm missing your point. Socialized healthcare policy is relevant in those countries with low unemployment, but unrelated in countries that have high unemployment?

    Seems like a double standard to me.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    So, assuming the poll is correct, 40% think the law didn’t go far enough. Those are the “do-mores”. Another 20% think the government should not be in health care at all. Those are the “get-outs”. That leaves 40% somewhere in the middle. The “do-less” crown would obviously contain the “get-outs” so that number would be 20% minimum but probably much, much more.
    This help?

    HC2. How much, if at all, should the health care system in the United States be CHANGED from
    what it was like in February, 2010, before Congress passed the law to change the system?
    Would you say it should be changed…
    A great deal 17
    A lot 22
    A moderate amount 35
    A little 16
    Not at all 9
    Refused 1
    I supposed you could claim "should be changed" is too ambiguous but then again if the government doesn't force it to change who is? It's not exactly an industry that collective buying power alone can change.
  14. Micael's Avatar
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    #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    This help?

    I supposed you could claim "should be changed" is too ambiguous but then again if the government doesn't force it to change who is? It's not exactly an industry that collective buying power alone can change.
    I commented on this nuance earlier. "Should be changed" by the government is not the same thing as "Should be controlled and managed" by the government.

    Tweaking the system isn't absorbing it like the Borg.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I guess I'm missing your point. Socialized healthcare policy is relevant in those countries with low unemployment, but unrelated in countries that have high unemployment?

    Seems like a double standard to me.
    I think he's point out it's not relevant in any of them unless you can show a direct correlation as to how it's effecting one countries economy but not effecting the other, negatively or positively.
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I guess I'm missing your point. Socialized healthcare policy is relevant in those countries with low unemployment, but unrelated in countries that have high unemployment?

    Seems like a double standard to me.
    Spain in having problems due to a two tiered employment system. It has nothing to do with their healthcare...
    Last edited by Kenanator; 09/28/2010 at 05:11 PM.
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
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  17. groovy's Avatar
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    #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    This help?



    I supposed you could claim "should be changed" is too ambiguous but then again if the government doesn't force it to change who is? It's not exactly an industry that collective buying power alone can change.
    Yes, that is too ambiguous to be claimed by one side or the other. Who forces the change and what changes are forced do factor in as well.
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I commented on this nuance earlier. "Should be changed" by the government is not the same thing as "Should be controlled and managed" by the government.

    Tweaking the system isn't absorbing it like the Borg.
    Really the only thing that's been advocated "absorbed" by the government is the primary coverage insurance companies. I believe it's been referred to as "Medicare for all". Which you yourself have pointed out is not an all encompassing system leaving room for optional private insurance companies to provide supplemental coverage plans.
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    #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Spain in having problems due to a two tiered employment system. It has nothing to do with their healthcare...
    Also, isn't healthcare in spain administered by the autonomous regions (aka states)? Yet in the US we would want the behemoth of the federal government to do this?
  20. #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by JDAustin View Post
    Also, isn't healthcare in spain administered by the autonomous regions (aka states)? Yet in the US we would want the behemoth of the federal government to do this?
    Health Care Spanish – How good is health care in Spain? | National Health Care
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
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