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  1. #641  
    I will guarantee you that if everyone was on Medicare, I would not have gone from first doctor visit to MRI to surgery in 2 weeks like I did last July for my back. If suddenly everyone could run to the doctor for every little sniffle, itch, or whatever they could think of, the line to the doctor would be ridiculous. Oh sure, maybe 10 years down the road it would start to get easier as more physicians were trained, but I would have to think that as you add more doctors into the system the cost would increase even more.

    All I know is that for the vast majority of people the current system works pretty darn good. Oh geez, I can see davidra starting to type that I don't care for those with no insurance and I'm just tired of that same old arguement from him. Today was my best day for my back after surgery and I truly believe that if we were under a universal type of system I would likely not yet have had my surgery and I'd be popping pills and be basically limping around.

    Hopefully, the Republicans can make some major changes to this ridiculous obama care and when his **** is out of office in 2 years they can get the bill thrown out and something that will actually work will get put in place. Davidra will continue to argue that insurance companies are bad, and hospitals and physicians are good. I think most doctors have issues with insurance companies because as I mentioned earlier today, insurance companies are trying to keep them from raising costs through the roof. It is truly amazing how people like davidra don't understand that premiums rise because providers keep raising their costs. Even if you take out the profits of insurance companies, hospitals and doctors would continue to raise their fees...but...it is easier for some doctors to point fingers at the insurance companies rather than look in the mirror.

    As always, the difference between liberals and conservatives is liberals believe the government should provide everything for everyone while conservatives believe the less government intrusion the better. It's just the way it is. Oh obama, oh pelosi, oh reid, please help us....please help us....we are so weak and need the government. Please take whatever is necessary (especially from the evil rich folk) so that everyone can be the same (except for those in government who will continue to get the best of the best). Good grief.
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  2. #642  
    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for providing the BEST CARE for our Veterans....they earned it and deserve it. God Bless Them. However, if it is as good as y'all keep saying, I wonder why my Rotary Club annually gives money to the local VA Hospital to help with very basic needs. Maybe the VA doctors are lying to us and pocketing the money? I don't know, I guess I better find out what is actually going on with this....or maybe Charleston has been left out of the good VA health care system.

    This next comment is not related to the VA issue, but I posted this article the other day from my local paper: Graham pushes care act repeal | The Post and Courier, Charleston SC - News, Sports, Entertainment

    Some physicians actually think along the same lines as me One of the physicians in the article says: John Gastright, one of the doctors who signed Graham's petition Wednesday, said family medicine practices would have difficulty absorbing the influx of Medicaid patients. "Medicaid reimbursement to doctors is low," Gastright said. "We actually lose money on some patients." That comment almost sounds like something an insurance company would say!

    To be honest, 2 of the 5 doctors in the practice wouldn't sign the petition of Grahams. But, that means 3 of the 5 did sign to repeal obama care.
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  3. #643  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Maybe the VA doctors are lying to us and pocketing the money? I don't know, I guess I better find out what is actually going on with this....
    OK, the idea of an efficient government run health care system goes against your ideology, I get it. But thats no reason to call physicians who choose to take care of our veterans liars and embezzlers. Thats not a good way to make your point. I am not sure where you get this idea of throwing slanderous comments at people who disagree with you but its wrong. You should apologize to VA physicians for that comment.
  4.    #644  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I will guarantee you that if everyone was on Medicare, I would not have gone from first doctor visit to MRI to surgery in 2 weeks like I did last July for my back. If suddenly everyone could run to the doctor for every little sniffle, itch, or whatever they could think of, the line to the doctor would be ridiculous. Oh sure, maybe 10 years down the road it would start to get easier as more physicians were trained, but I would have to think that as you add more doctors into the system the cost would increase even more.

    All I know is that for the vast majority of people the current system works pretty darn good.
    Must be nice to have insurance, isn't it? I'm SO glad you didn't have to wait....but at least you could get it done, right? What if you couldn't? And really..."the vast majority"? Great, screw everybody else, right? You're right....you don't care. I don't need to keep saying it, you say it yourself over and over again.
  5. #645  
    forgot where i read it this am, but according to the CDC, about 59 million US peeps were not covered by any type of insurance this year. wow 59 million. now, I am thinking, if you had those 59 million paying even something, would that now go a long way to putting some money into your health care system. Just asking.
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  6. #646  
    half of them are not citizens.
  7. #647  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    forgot where i read it this am, but according to the CDC, about 59 million US peeps were not covered by any type of insurance this year. wow 59 million. now, I am thinking, if you had those 59 million paying even something, would that now go a long way to putting some money into your health care system. Just asking.
    That's the rub, and the problem that no one seems to want to address. No system is going to work and be sustainable without payers equaling the payees. Fix that then maybe you could put together a viable system.
  8. #648  
    Yet another example of why obama care needs to be scraped....no one can seem to follow the darn thing and HHS is having to grant waivers for everyone. So, why don't they just admit it is a horrible bill and get something that will work?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/he...iver.html?_r=1
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  9. #649  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    OK, the idea of an efficient government run health care system goes against your ideology, I get it. But thats no reason to call physicians who choose to take care of our veterans liars and embezzlers. Thats not a good way to make your point. I am not sure where you get this idea of throwing slanderous comments at people who disagree with you but its wrong. You should apologize to VA physicians for that comment.
    Apparently you didn't pick up on the sarcasm.....perhaps it is the people who are reporting how great the VA system is that are....well....maybe not being completely honest? As I said, you presented articles saying how great the VA system is and it just has me wondering why the VA here has trouble with very basic medical supplies for our Veterans. The doctor who comes to our meeting about once a year says they don't have some very basic supplies and he always thanks us for the monetary gift that will go towards these supplies. We have not had a non government provider come to us asking for help with basic supplies. Just saying.
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  10. #650  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    half of them are not citizens.
    Perhaps Canada can open their door to allow for an additional 30 million people who aren't citizens to drain their citizen's money?
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    #651  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    You see, unlike insurance companies, most providers and hospitals feel an obligation to society, and not just to their stockholders, so they try and make up their losses by charging you.
    This is such a snarky holier than though jab, I don't even know how to respond. All I can say is that I work every day with claims administrators, wellness coordinators, COBRA administrators, and member services professionals, and they put the patient in front of everything else. Frankly, I don't appreciate the insult. It's unfounded and unnecessary.

    Check the parking lot for the physicians and medical staff at your hospital one day, and then come look at our parking garage. That will tell the truth about who's robbing whom.

    Better yet just google it. You'll find tons of docs discussing the obscene markups hospitals are notorious for. You gripe about the 3.5 % margin the insurance industry gets, while hospitals markup 300-900 %. Give me a break.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  12.    #652  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    half of them are not citizens.
    Data, please.
  13.    #653  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    This is such a snarky holier than though jab, I don't even know how to respond. All I can say is that I work every day with claims administrators, wellness coordinators, COBRA administrators, and member services professionals, and they put the patient in front of everything else. Frankly, I don't appreciate the insult. It's unfounded and unnecessary.

    Check the parking lot for the physicians and medical staff at your hospital one day, and then come look at our parking garage. That will tell the truth about who's robbing whom.

    Better yet just google it. You'll find tons of docs discussing the obscene markups hospitals are notorious for. You gripe about the 3.5 % margin the insurance industry gets, while hospitals markup 300-900 %. Give me a break.
    Google this parking lot, please.

    Sick for Profit - Insurance CEOs

    And you can find some other interesting articles on that website as well, like:

    California's largest for-profit health insurer, Anthem Blue Cross, is expected to raise premiums by 30 to 39 percent on an unknown number of its 800,000 members. The announcement isn't sitting well with a wide range of people -- from government officials to Anthem members.
    Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius demanded that the insurer reveal how much they stand to profit from the rate hike in a to the company earlier this week.
    An inquiry is also being launched by California Insurance Commissioner Steven Poizner. While the increase doesn't require state approval, he wants to ensure that it abides by state regulation and 70 percent of income from premiums will be directed to medical costs.
    I'm sure your claims administrators, COBRA people, and other middle managers are very committed to patients. Their very jobs depend on it, and I have no doubt some are truly committed. Maybe if they determined insurance policy, such as the setting of premiums and determining which low profit groups to drop, health insurance would have a better popularity rating. Of course, actually providing care would help too. There is no doubt that disease management programs and on-call services, many run by insurance companies, probably do improve health care for their "covered lives". It's the rest of the business model that stinks.

    And far be it from me to attempt to justify hospital profit margins, especially for-profit hospital margins, but I will say that hospitals invest in providing expanded services, and what they reinvest is significant. If insurance companies had reinvested their record profits into streamlining their businesses and decreasing their overhead, maybe we'd all be better off. But they haven't, even though there have been some initial attempts.
  14. Micael's Avatar
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    #654  
    Back on the offensive. Nice. But you still can't/won't/don't address the incredible waste and overcharging in your own house.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15.    #655  
    Quote Originally Posted by cjgem View Post
    That's the rub, and the problem that no one seems to want to address. No system is going to work and be sustainable without payers equaling the payees. Fix that then maybe you could put together a viable system.
    That's actually a great suggestion. Everyone who pays taxes can contribute. I suspect that a very large percentage of those 30 or 60 million do pay taxes now; it wouldn't take much of an increase to provide for everyone. Right? Just more and more arguments for a single payor system.
  16.    #656  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Back on the offensive. Nice. But you still can't/won't/don't address the incredible waste and overcharging in your own house.
    Let's see....when you lose $15 million, with 100% of it due to uncompensated care, how would you recommend taking care of that? Stop seeing the uninsured? That's what for-profit places do. I'm glad we don't. It's pretty traumatic to see people die in the streets outside your hospital. Well, maybe we can charge more to insurance companies who have record profits. Sounds like a plan to me. I'll go along with the overcharging, but when it comes to waste, it depends on what you're talking about. If you mean too many procedures, tests and surgery that doesn't improve outcomes, I'm right there with you. That's why we need much more science involved in determining what treatments and testing should be done. But of course that's "government control". And we don't want that, even though it would save millions of dollars a year.
  17. Micael's Avatar
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    #657  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Let's see....when you lose $15 million, with 100% of it due to uncompensated care, how would you recommend taking care of that?
    Let's see.... maybe reread my first response to you when you first whined about this. Maybe if you brought your costs and pricing in line you'd not charge so damn much and in turn you'd lose less.

    Said differently, I think we could hold a fire sale on the car's in your parking lot and make up that 15 mil pretty quick.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  18.    #658  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Let's see.... maybe reread my first response to you when you first whined about this. Maybe if you brought your costs and pricing in line you'd not charge so damn much and in turn you'd lose less.

    Said differently, I think we could hold a fire sale on the car's in your parking lot and make up that 15 mil pretty quick.
    Not as quickly as if we hit up insurance CEO's. And of course, the hospital isn't an individual. And since this is partly a training institution, the doctors for the most part are salaried. If you really want to have a fire sale, go to your favorite private for-profit hospital parking lot. You'll make a lot more money.

    Your response makes as much sense as it did the first time: decrease your charges and go bankrupt is what I hear. Or, increase your charges to those that can pay and stay in business. Of course, we do have an advantage; we're not-for-profit so we don't have to deal with all those nasty stockholders and massive CEO salaries.
  19. Micael's Avatar
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    #659  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Your response makes as much sense as it did the first time: decrease your charges and go bankrupt is what I hear.
    Apparently you hear only what you want to hear.

    The problem has never been about insurance costs.

    As much as you rail against the few insurance company ceo's, their combined income doesn't show up as a blip when compared to the overcharging, fraud, waste, and abuse of the 'system' by doctors, drug manufacturers, hospital administrators, and lawsuit-happy lawyers.

    How about putting as much effort into cleaning your own house as you put in to criticizing others?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  20. Micael's Avatar
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    #660  
    Top Senate Republican Signs on to Support Lawsuit Challenging Health Care Overhaul
    November 10, 2010 10:14 AM

    ABC News’ Matthew Jaffe reports:

    The top Senate Republican intends to file a friend-of-the-court brief next week in a federal lawsuit that questions the constitutionality of the Obama administration’s new health care law.

    In his amicus brief to be filed in the US District Court in the Northern District of Florida, Sen. Mitch McConnell, R-KY, challenges the health care overhaul’s requirement that nearly all Americans purchase health insurance.

    McConnell has asked other Senate Republicans to join him in signing on to the brief. In a letter to his Capitol Hill colleagues on Tuesday, McConnell outlined his argument against the law.

    “For the first time, the Congress is not regulating an economic activity in which its citizens have chosen to engage, but rather is mandating that its citizens engage in economic activity—that they purchase a particular product—to begin with, and it would allow the federal government to punish those who make a different choice,” McConnell wrote. “Second, the brief argues that if the Individual Mandate is deemed constitutional, there will no longer be any meaningful limit on Congress’s power to regulate its citizens under the Commerce Clause.”

    McConnell has called for the health care law to be repealed altogether.

    In a speech last Thursday at the conservative Heritage Foundation in Washington, McConnell said, “We can and should propose and vote on straight repeal repeatedly. But we can’t expect the president to sign it. So we’ll have to work in the House on denying funds for implementation and in the Senate on votes against its most egregious provisions.”
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

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