Page 22 of 37 FirstFirst ... 12171819202122232425262732 ... LastLast
Results 421 to 440 of 726
  1. #421  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    No. Not "subsidiaries". Separate companies. They're on different IT systems. Their finances, policies, processes, aren't even remotely tethered in any way.

    They broke away from each other. They pay a fee to a shell organization so they can use the BCBS brand and they may pitch in funds for collective marketing materials, but that's about as far as it goes.
    "Collective marketing"? Ah ok, you must mean the millions of dollars the Blue Cross Blue Shield Parent company and subsidiaries spends each year to lobby Congress ($23 million dollars last year alone) out of their Washington office. Thats some "fee" isn't it? .

    I'm just very impressed how such "independent" companies can coordinate so closely, when it comes to lobbying Congress and evading anti-trust prosecution.
  2. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #422  
    How many millions do your labor and teachers unions pay to lobby congress cellmatrix?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  3. #423  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    How many millions do your labor and teachers unions pay to lobby congress cellmatrix?
    While someone needs to stand up for teachers, who are paid far too poorly than they deserve, and for blue collar workers in this country, the labor unions are not always serving them well and in many cases are corrupt and looking out for their own interests. So no I am not happy with them.

    But maybe you can extend your views on unions in a separate thread? That way we can stay on track here in this thread.

    Getting back to Blue cross, don't you see a connection between their lobbying and how advocating minimal governmental regulation helps them to control the health insurance market?
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 10/20/2010 at 12:06 AM.
  4. #424  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    And once again you fail to mention all the people who were quite happy with their health plan. But why should those people matter, right? In the socialistic society that obama is aiming for, everyone should be willing to share, right? The Boeing employees who are now going to have their deductible raised and have to pay more premiums, they should just smile and say in a monotone voice...."we have given so others can have....we have given so others can have....we have given so others can have" I know you believe in that but most Americans don't. Do I give? Yes! I don't need to get into the charities that I give to, but I give to them because, well, I can...I can choose who I give to....and yes, it feels good to give back.
    I hate to keep making this point again and again, but employees' health insurance plans have been CONSTANTLY CHANGING FOR DECADES, usually for the worse from the policyholder's perspective (in terms of coverage). My own have been changing (or been "pared back," in the language of the headline) since Obama was probably in high school, and I had no say in any of it. The insurance companies or corporations can claim it's all due to the legislation, but why should we believe them when they've done the same thing for years? What was the excuse then? Oh, now I remember, skyrocketing health care costs and a dysfunctional health care system.
  5. #425  
    Separate companies, individual companies, hmmm I guess we have never heard of antitrust laws. Or the reason(s) they were developed and passed into law. Corps, never manipulate the system, never buy off politicians votes, never dump chemicals, heavy metals, etc,, and then try to fight the system in courts for decades. hmmmm never happens. I would suggest, with the track record of many "free market companies" in the states and frankly around the world, I wouldnt trust most of them to not try to rip off the american public. Remember, it isnt a crime unless you get caught. lollol
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  6. #426  
    I will take this off topic sorta, hey micael, why are there unions in the first place? Would it be because of near slave like conditions in many factories? insanely unsafe work places, little to no pay, company towns where the company would forced the worker to rent a home from the company, buy from the company store, put workers on the street when they could not pay the rent. Work the employee 12-16 hours a day, with out paying for the extra time. Naw, couldnt have been any of those reasons. I mean, the employee had a choice to work there right, it was their choice to work in those conditions. lol

    'How many millions do your labor and teachers unions pay to lobby congress cellmatrix?'
    __________________
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

    I would suggest, after years of abuse by the big corps/companies, the unions have learned quite well from the employers. They are doing nothing less than what the companies themselves are doing. Something that the companies have been doing for a lot longer than unions have even been around. I mean, heck, the Tobacco industry etc etc .. has no lobbyists do they? lol
    Last edited by xForsaken; 10/20/2010 at 06:05 AM.
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  7. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #427  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    But maybe you can extend your views on unions in a separate thread? That way we can stay on track here in this thread.
    Sorry, my point was very relavent to this thread. You're attacking BCBS for lobbying the government. I'm pointing out that every organized group is invested in looking out for it's own interests. It can't be ok for unions, but not ok for insurance agencies - just because you're wanting to attack them, but not the unions.

    I know that to concur with my point will be difficult for you.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  8.    #428  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Sorry, my point was very relavent to this thread. You're attacking BCBS for lobbying the government. I'm pointing out that every organized group is invested in looking out for it's own interests. It can't be ok for unions, but not ok for insurance agencies - just because you're wanting to attack them, but not the unions.

    I know that to concur with my point will be difficult for you.
    Personally, I have no problem with anyone lobbying... as long as there are limitations on the amount they can spend, and all is disclosed and open. There are lots of organizations I support that lobby. A very good friend of mine is now the Deputy Secretary of HHS, but he almost didn't get confirmed because he ran a non-profit that existed only to stop children from smoking. They lobbied, and I have no problem with that. Of course, they were only interested in "their own interests", right? Spending millions of dollars secretly, on the other hand, is a problem.
    Last edited by davidra; 10/20/2010 at 10:37 AM.
  9. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #429  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Personally, I have no problem with anyone lobbying... as long as there are limitations on the amount they can spend, and all is disclosed and open. There are lots of organizations I support that lobby. A very good friend of mine is now the Deputy Secretary of HHS, but he almost didn't get confirmed because he ran a non-profit that existed only to stop children from smoking. They lobbied, and I have no problem with that. Of course, they were only interested in "their own interests", right? Spending millions of dollars secretly, on the other hand, is a problem.
    Thanks for your response. Again, I ask the question, how much do the trade and teachers unions spend on lobbying congress? Could it perhaps be in the millions?

    You're biasing based on your values and beliefs, which is understandable, but at least admit it and be aware that others don't share your values and beliefs.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  10.    #430  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    You're biasing based on your values and beliefs, which is understandable, but at least admit it and be aware that others don't share your values and beliefs.
    REALLY? You're KIDDING!



    I'm sure others don't share my beliefs, including wanting children to not smoke, or wanting high quality health care for every citizen of the US. Is it OK if I consider them aholes?
  11. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #431  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    REALLY? You're KIDDING!



    I'm sure others don't share my beliefs, including wanting children to not smoke, or wanting high quality health care for every citizen of the US. Is it OK if I consider them aholes?
    Please point out who exactly said they wanted children to smoke, or who said the do not want high quality health care for every citizen of the US.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  12. #432  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Sorry, my point was very relavent to this thread. You're attacking BCBS for lobbying the government. I'm pointing out that every organized group is invested in looking out for it's own interests. It can't be ok for unions, but not ok for insurance agencies - just because you're wanting to attack them, but not the unions.

    I know that to concur with my point will be difficult for you.
    No I actually agree with you on this issue and am not attacking anyone's right to lobby. I brought the issue up because you were trying to portray all the individual blue cross companies as being totally independent in how they operate. I was simply pointing out that they are instead acting in a very big (23million kind of big) and highly coordinated way, operating out of a central office in Washington to get lawmakers to look the other way while they consolidate the health insurance industry. While you would like to portray the lobbying as distinct, I would argue that it's been an integral part of the business plan all along. So they are not working as independently as you may think or want us to think. That's the point I was making.
  13.    #433  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Please point out who exactly said they wanted children to smoke, or who said the do not want high quality health care for every citizen of the US.
    I never said anyone on the board did. I just said I bet some people feel that way. I would venture to say that some people on this board do not feel that everyone deserves high quality health care. Do you?
  14. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #434  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I never said anyone on the board did. I just said I bet some people feel that way. I would venture to say that some people on this board do not feel that everyone deserves high quality health care. Do you?
    I can only speak from my own point of view. I think you and I agree on those particular two points.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. Micael's Avatar
    Posts
    736 Posts
    Global Posts
    739 Global Posts
    #435  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    No I actually agree with you on this issue and am not attacking anyone's right to lobby. I brought the issue up because you were trying to portray all the individual blue cross companies as being totally independent in how they operate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    They broke away from each other. They pay a fee to a shell organization so they can use the BCBS brand and they may pitch in funds for collective marketing materials, but that's about as far as it goes.
    I tried to elude to this with my statement above. I wasn't particularly aware that the franchise funds covered lobbying, but I guess that makes sense. Gives them more clout, I suppose. Certainly there's other associations that pools monies from their industry members for lobbying congress?
    I was simply pointing out that they are instead acting in a very big (23million kind of big) and highly coordinated way, operating out of a central office in Washington to get lawmakers to look the other way while they consolidate the health insurance industry. While you would like to portray the lobbying as distinct, I would argue that it's been an integral part of the business plan all along. So they are not working as independently as you may think or want us to think. That's the point I was making.
    I think we're talking about two different things. Lobbying by the BCBS association, and wrongdoings by individual companies under the BCBS brand. They're separate.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. #436  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I don't know what's fair, but I know what's not. Should a health insurance CEO who provides no direct care in any way be making millions of dollars? When you are being put to sleep, would you rather have the insurance CEO there or the doctor, who spends many years being trained and graduates with an average debt of $150,000 at age 31 or 32? As usual, you miss the point. You believe in getting what you pay for, right? What do you actually GET from paying an insurance company, seeing as they get 25% of your money? How much are you willing to pay to have a competent physician? What do you think they should make? Do you view your health as you do your auto repair? And you should know by now that I am not afraid of suggesting that reimbursement rates might need to be adjusted in order to be able to provide quality care to everyone, so you are barking up the wrong tree.
    Actually....as usual you miss the point as you don't know me. Personally, I could care less if a doctor makes $400k a year. I was just wondering if YOU had a problem with this. And, no offense, I'm not going to even address who I would rather pay to perform a medical procedure on me as that is just a ridiculous question. As for a CEO's pay....well.....he is no different than the Professional athlete that negotiates these ridiculous salaries for playing a sport and driving up the price of tickets. Is an athlete really worth $100 million? Really? But if some stupid owner is willing to pay that amount...well....I guess in his/her mind that player is worth that. If a board feels a CEO is worth $10..$20...or $30 million then I guess he/she is worth it. But if you think I'm in favor of reducing individual's right to earn income, you are sorely mistaken. YOU seem to think it is okay to reduce profits to one group in this arena and not address "profits" to others. I just think it is hypocritical to say insurance companies should have no profits, yet you seem to have no problem with doctors and hospitals charging OUTRAGEOUS fees that end up lining their pockets. As for 25% of income going to overhead....well....I wonder what amount of a doctor's gross income goes to the practice's overhead? More than 25%? You simply can't have it both ways. Heck....other than CEO pay, I'm willing to bet that if the government took over all of healthcare, the salaries and benefits will quickly exceed those of the private sector.

    And that's about all I got to say about that.
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  17. #437  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    did the prez and the rest of the libs lie to the american public oorrrrrrrrrrrrrrr are the corps using every damn thing at thier disposal to discredit the new system.. NAWWWWWWWWW corps would never lie cheat steal from the american public ..... or would they...
    Yes....the prez and the rest of the libs lied to the American public. obama continues to lie to the American public.
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  18. #438  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    It's amazing how limited your view is, but not surprising. I believe Boeing should be relieved of having to provide insurance, so why should I feel sorry for their well-paid employees who have to increase their deductible? They have insurance. That's more than millions and millions of people have. You also "donate" to Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, Social Security, the Palmetto state, your wonderful governor and senators....so please don't bother to make out the health care plan any more socialist than what you have been providing for many many years. Right? In fact, it's much less "socialist" as it uses private insurers, which is unfortunate but true.

    Yes, you have accurately determined what I believe. I do believe that most people in this country want everyone to have quality health care, and they are willing to help fund it. You got a problem with that? Maybe you really do, maybe you really don't care if people get health care or not. After all, you give to charity. BFD.
    I believe you really are on board with obama's socialist agenda. Perhaps you are also on board with pelosi? It's all about fairness, right? As I've said before, why don't we all just send our entire check to obama and pelosi and let them distribute it back to everyone in equal shares? Wouldn't that be fair? pelosi believes it would. You really can't make this up:



    Now, I don't have a problem if you believe in fairness for everyone, but this country was not founded on everyone having the same thing. Unfortunately, some people just have better things: better homes, better cars, better insurance, better lives. Why are some blessed and others just can't catch a break? I don't know why...but it's just the way it is davidra. I really think you need to start handing your own money out rather than worrying about taking money from others. Don't you have a 2nd home somewhere? Shouldn't you sell that and give the proceeds to the government? Why not? To not do so is being selfish.
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

    "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." General George S. Patton
  19. #439  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Yes....the prez and the rest of the libs lied to the American public. obama continues to lie to the American public.
    ok, that is what you believe, if you want me to believe that than prove that they lied..
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  20.    #440  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I believe you really are on board with obama's socialist agenda. Perhaps you are also on board with pelosi? It's all about fairness, right? As I've said before, why don't we all just send our entire check to obama and pelosi and let them distribute it back to everyone in equal shares? Wouldn't that be fair? pelosi believes it would. You really can't make this up:



    Now, I don't have a problem if you believe in fairness for everyone, but this country was not founded on everyone having the same thing. Unfortunately, some people just have better things: better homes, better cars, better insurance, better lives. Why are some blessed and others just can't catch a break? I don't know why...but it's just the way it is davidra. I really think you need to start handing your own money out rather than worrying about taking money from others. Don't you have a 2nd home somewhere? Shouldn't you sell that and give the proceeds to the government? Why not? To not do so is being selfish.
    By all means continue to misrepresent what you know is my position, since you don't really have an answer to it. I have never said, and never thought, that "everyone should have the same thing". Just because you can't force yourself to say the ethical thing....that all people should have adequate, high quality health care....you feel obligated to paint everything about that single reasonable thought as socialist. You really should listen to Micael a bit more, as he doesn't let his political view interfere with common sense. Most people think having safe, adequate health care is not the same thing as having a second home, or having a nice car, although to you they appear to be the same thing. You might consider looking in the mirror or spending some time with people who can't get the care that you have. You might learn something about yourself. Maybe.

Posting Permissions