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  1. #201  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Yeah...aren't you special! I'm glad everyone seems to think that you are very sensible and insightful with your post. I don't, because it doesn't solve any problems. This is not about "parties with motives that do not serve America", it's about people dying or being bankrupted by our health care non-system. You are concerned about the perspective of those on this board, including myself, that argue one side or the other. That is nothing but an excuse to avoid solving the problem.

    What I care about is making sure that every American has accessible, reasonably priced health care. I don't care how they get it, whether via private or public sources. If private insurers can do that and not bankrupt the country, fine. I just know by experience that they can't, and won't. A two-tiered system? Fine. Accountability and self-reliance are just fine examples of stereotyping those without care as lacking those characteristics....and the vast majority of them don't. The vast majority of them work, have families that they support, and cannot afford health care. Personally, I'm sick of excuses for denying people care. I see people dying from lack of care on a regular basis. Health care should not be subject to a philosophical exercise in political theory. When the hacks who think they're above it all agree to the simple proposition that every American should have access to affordable quality care, then we'll be getting somewhere. Instead, what I hear is that 30 to 40 million of our citizens lack accountability and self-reliance...and that's manure. Thankfully, we apparently are going to be able to begin fixing this mess in spite of the misinformation being ladled out to the public by the nay-sayers.
    I get it... you couldn't give a rats rear end about what I have to say, so you attack it. Fine. You do, however, prove my point.

    I wasn't attacking you, but the dialogue. If either side wants to get anything done worthwhile, you might want to tone things down a little.

    Your insinuation that those who do not like this bill are allowing more people to die is disheartening. The fact that you feel that way shows how far down the wrong road we are. You can't see the other side of the issue as having legitimate concerns regarding cost. How many lives will you save with a system that has no money?

    You see this a dragging feet, but making a responsible decision is paramount. Rushing through things creates bigger issues down the road.

    To my other point, the US government is broken. It is inaffective because no one will work together anymore. Why do Republicans talk of repeal? Because they were excluded from the process. Don't try to argue that point, because you will sound foolish. Why did Democrats complain about the "rubber stamp" congress in the Bush years? Because they were left out as well.

    It seriously is like a classroom full of 3 year olds who haven't learned to share.

    Again, feel free to attack me all you want. Perhaps one closing note before you train both barrells...

    We can do a lot together or nothing apart. Continuing down this never ending sludge filled river is not going to do anything. Especially on a very small corner of the internet.
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  2. #202  
    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypre View Post
    I get it... you couldn't give a rats rear end about what I have to say, so you attack it. Fine. You do, however, prove my point.

    I wasn't attacking you, but the dialogue. If either side wants to get anything done worthwhile, you might want to tone things down a little.

    Your insinuation that those who do not like this bill are allowing more people to die is disheartening. The fact that you feel that way shows how far down the wrong road we are. You can't see the other side of the issue as having legitimate concerns regarding cost. How many lives will you save with a system that has no money?

    You see this a dragging feet, but making a responsible decision is paramount. Rushing through things creates bigger issues down the road.

    To my other point, the US government is broken. It is inaffective because no one will work together anymore. Why do Republicans talk of repeal? Because they were excluded from the process. Don't try to argue that point, because you will sound foolish. Why did Democrats complain about the "rubber stamp" congress in the Bush years? Because they were left out as well.

    It seriously is like a classroom full of 3 year olds who haven't learned to share.

    Again, feel free to attack me all you want. Perhaps one closing note before you train both barrells...

    We can do a lot together or nothing apart. Continuing down this never ending sludge filled river is not going to do anything. Especially on a very small corner of the internet.
    Actually I think he's more upset your statement was in this thread and not in the other thread currently running on the exact topic you were actually commenting on, Dem vs. Rep. This thread started when that thread was trying to devolve into a back and forth about healthcare.
  3. #203  
    To OP, because it sux.
  4. #204  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Honestly....not sure of your question. I have clients who actually want individual children only policies. I explained why before, so won't bore you with that. There is no "enrollment period" under an individual policy. In fact, there are not "enrollment periods" under all group plans. Usually this is reserved for groups of over 50. Anyway, not sure I'm getting your question, can you clarify it? I'm being sincere here....hopefully I can answer it.



    That is what they are looking for. My understanding is under the current bill there is no way to protect themselves from a "drop and add exploit". This is why they had to stop writing these policies until some clarification can be received on this. Maybe they will allow such a requirement? I really don't think that is such an unreasonable request. Hopefully davidra can even understand that basic principle.
    When they shut the door on a single-payer wanting to keep for-profit companies, I started thinking about how I thought would be best to make it so people couldn't pull that kind of exploit. I was thinking a 6 month wait when coming in from not having insurance for longer than 3 or 6 months prior, with the exception of those that were denied for pre-existing conditions and sign up shortly after being allowed to do so. In addition any major illnesses actively manifesting while not on an insurance provider would not be covered for at least a year, unless it was part of the previously mentioned group that were being denied coverage and they signed up as soon as they were able.
  5. #205  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Actually I think he's more upset your statement was in this thread and not in the other thread currently running on the exact topic you were actually commenting on, Dem vs. Rep. This thread started when that thread was trying to devolve into a back and forth about healthcare.
    That's my point though. Throw out party affiliation for a second and you might get somewhere. The rampant and untrue generalizations that crop up immediately throw up road blocks to progress.
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  6.    #206  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    You know....you've been saying this in here since I can remember. What hospital do you work in and exactly how many people die each day in your hospital from lack of care? If not in your hospital, where do they die at? I'm not doubting that you see people die on a regular basis (you are in a profession where you would obviously see this on a regular basis), but are you saying that these people that die, die because of lack of care? Do you see people die with health care? I never hear that, but I assume you do. And by the way, one person dying who shouldn't is one too many....so don't go get up on your pedestal....I'm just wondering what kind of numbers you personally see each week die...it must be a really high number. Seems like you could get some of your wealthy doctor friends together and donate more time and maybe money to help these people.
    On Tuesday night I saw a woman in a community clinic who was diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer. She had never had a mammogram because she couldn't afford one and the flower shop she has worked in for ten years provided no benefits, of course. She had priced health insurance but it didn't cover preventive care and cost around $800 per month....and because she had mild diet-controlled diabetes she couldn't get it anyway. Last week I saw a man who had been admitted to the hospital four times in the past month for heart failure. Each time he was given prescriptions for medicines that could control his heart failure. Unfortunately, he couldn't afford them. He is in his late 50's and worked all his life for a branch of a major US company (that shall remain nameless but the first part of the name is "Ray") making rechargeable batteries. The branch company went bankrupt, the parent company was bought and he lost his insurance. Both of these people are going have their life span shortened considerably because of lack of care. Both would have been much better off with the current pending health care reform bill in place. Neither are trying to sponge off any system. There are many more that could have their lives enhanced by having access to care, especially in the low income clinics I spend some time in each week.
  7.    #207  
    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypre View Post
    I get it... you couldn't give a rats rear end about what I have to say, so you attack it. Fine. You do, however, prove my point.

    I wasn't attacking you, but the dialogue. If either side wants to get anything done worthwhile, you might want to tone things down a little.

    Your insinuation that those who do not like this bill are allowing more people to die is disheartening. The fact that you feel that way shows how far down the wrong road we are. You can't see the other side of the issue as having legitimate concerns regarding cost. How many lives will you save with a system that has no money?

    You see this a dragging feet, but making a responsible decision is paramount. Rushing through things creates bigger issues down the road.

    To my other point, the US government is broken. It is inaffective because no one will work together anymore. Why do Republicans talk of repeal? Because they were excluded from the process. Don't try to argue that point, because you will sound foolish. Why did Democrats complain about the "rubber stamp" congress in the Bush years? Because they were left out as well.

    It seriously is like a classroom full of 3 year olds who haven't learned to share.

    Again, feel free to attack me all you want. Perhaps one closing note before you train both barrells...

    We can do a lot together or nothing apart. Continuing down this never ending sludge filled river is not going to do anything. Especially on a very small corner of the internet.
    You don't get it. This is not a philosophical exercise as far as I'm concerned. I don't care who was left out of the process, and I don't care whose feelings are hurt. I think people that do like this bill are allowing more people to die as well. Until every person has access to care, the result will be poor quality care for a significant portion of the country.

    Dragging feet? Do you really think that providing care for everyone would result in no money, that the country would go bankrupt? Are you nuts? Try looking at every other single modern country in the world. We are the outlier. We could do this easily, whether through single payor, a joint system like Germany's, a dual tier system.....we could EASILY do this, but the philosophy of naysayers and their false arguments keep people from getting the care they need. Like the well-informed poster who claimed that he will NEVER pay for anyone else's health care when he's been doing it all his life. Tell me, how would you like it if these kinds of irrational people were keeping your children from getting the health care they need? Think you'd like it? Hard for you to imagine, isn't it? Well, people live with that scenario every single day. Sorry. There is no room for negotiation when it comes to health care.
  8. #208  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    On Tuesday night I saw a woman in a community clinic who was diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer. She had never had a mammogram because she couldn't afford one and the flower shop she has worked in for ten years provided no benefits, of course. She had priced health insurance but it didn't cover preventive care and cost around $800 per month....and because she had mild diet-controlled diabetes she couldn't get it anyway. Last week I saw a man who had been admitted to the hospital four times in the past month for heart failure. Each time he was given prescriptions for medicines that could control his heart failure. Unfortunately, he couldn't afford them. He is in his late 50's and worked all his life for a branch of a major US company (that shall remain nameless but the first part of the name is "Ray") making rechargeable batteries. The branch company went bankrupt, the parent company was bought and he lost his insurance. Both of these people are going have their life span shortened considerably because of lack of care. Both would have been much better off with the current pending health care reform bill in place. Neither are trying to sponge off any system. There are many more that could have their lives enhanced by having access to care, especially in the low income clinics I spend some time in each week.
    Clearly horrible, horrible circumstances and I would agree these people have been screwed. That is why, of course, I have been for real health care reform....not just something labeled health care reform that doesn't really fix things.

    By the way....I guess folks have seen this by now, but looks like McDonalds is possibly going to cut back health benefits for some employees due to the amount the are required to spend on health care expenses. These dang for profit companies are just making me angry. Why should a hamburger company be allowed to think of profits? They were providing some health benefits for what is likely part-time workers that was minimum coverage....it was not a comprehensive type of plan....but it would at least cover that woman's mammogram, for example. Of course, health care reform is going to make this something that they have to question. Not sure this link will work since it is in the WSJ, but will try:

    McDonald's Says It May Drop Health Plan - WSJ.com
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  9.    #209  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Clearly horrible, horrible circumstances and I would agree these people have been screwed. That is why, of course, I have been for real health care reform....not just something labeled health care reform that doesn't really fix things.


    By the way....I guess folks have seen this by now, but looks like McDonalds is possibly going to cut back health benefits for some employees due to the amount the are required to spend on health care expenses. These dang for profit companies are just making me angry. Why should a hamburger company be allowed to think of profits? They were providing some health benefits for what is likely part-time workers that was minimum coverage....it was not a comprehensive type of plan....but it would at least cover that woman's mammogram, for example. Of course, health care reform is going to make this something that they have to question. Not sure this link will work since it is in the WSJ, but will try:

    McDonald's Says It May Drop Health Plan - WSJ.com

    Both of those people would have been "fixed" by the current plan if implemented and in place.

    I agree with you wholeheartedly. Businesses should not have to pay for their employee's health care. It has certainly hurt the auto industry to compete with countries in which their automakers do not have to cover $1500 or so of each car sale for employee health benefits. You just made a great argument for a single-payer plan. Glad you agree.
  10. #210  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    ...By the way....I guess folks have seen this by now, but looks like McDonalds is possibly going to cut back health benefits for some employees due to the amount the are required to spend on health care expenses. These dang for profit companies are just making me angry. Why should a hamburger company be allowed to think of profits? They were providing some health benefits for what is likely part-time workers that was minimum coverage....it was not a comprehensive type of plan....but it would at least cover that woman's mammogram, for example. Of course, health care reform is going to make this something that they have to question. Not sure this link will work since it is in the WSJ, but will try:

    McDonald's Says It May Drop Health Plan - WSJ.com
    Thanks for pointing out how another Rupert Murdock media outlet is putting out lies, yet again. Maybe you should learn to fact check before you just send out the Right's propaganda...

    McDonald's Fights Back Against Report That It Will Drop Health Care Plan - ABC News
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  11. #211  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Both of those people would have been "fixed" by the current plan if implemented and in place.

    I agree with you wholeheartedly. Businesses should not have to pay for their employee's health care. It has certainly hurt the auto industry to compete with countries in which their automakers do not have to cover $1500 or so of each car sale for employee health benefits. You just made a great argument for a single-payer plan. Glad you agree.
    It's ironic that the naysayers keep making arguments for a single-payer system but don't even want to consider the idea of taking the insurance pool out of the hands of non-competing for-profit companies.

    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    By the way....I guess folks have seen this by now, but looks like McDonalds is possibly going to cut back health benefits for some employees due to the amount the are required to spend on health care expenses. These dang for profit companies are just making me angry. Why should a hamburger company be allowed to think of profits? They were providing some health benefits for what is likely part-time workers that was minimum coverage....it was not a comprehensive type of plan....but it would at least cover that woman's mammogram, for example. Of course, health care reform is going to make this something that they have to question.
    We've found the solution! Cancel the health care law! All we need to do is all get part-time jobs at McDonald's and we'll have our single-payer system!
  12. #212  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Thanks for pointing out how another Rupert Murdock media outlet is putting out lies, yet again. Maybe you should learn to fact check before you just send out the Right's propaganda...

    McDonald's Fights Back Against Report That It Will Drop Health Care Plan - ABC News
    That article of yours says, "The McDonald's plan, according to the report, has higher overhead costs because it provides insurance to a highly transient population of hourly workers in its restaurants and would not likely meet the minimum requirements of the new law." If they can't meet the minimum requirements of the law, as it is understood, then it appears McDonald's will have to consider dropping such coverage. Now....if HHS wants to change the rules for certain companies, they can do that, I guess. The insurance companies have been trying to get clarification on this as well. You would have thought in a bill that is 2500 pages, they could have made this a little more clear, don't you think? By the way....I'm glad the source of your story is ABC....whew....they certainly would never back the obama administration, huh? LOL
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  13. #213  
    Davidra....more good news! Just received an email that The Principal will be exiting the health insurance business! Another evil insurance company bites the dust (at least in that market place). They will be transferring their business to United HealthCare.
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  14.    #214  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Davidra....more good news! Just received an email that The Principal will be exiting the health insurance business! Another evil insurance company bites the dust (at least in that market place). They will be transferring their business to United HealthCare.
    Excellent. You expect me to be sad about an insurance company getting out of the health care business? I don't think they should be there in the first place. Good riddance. The more that get out, the clearer the way will be to what we really need.
  15. #215  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Excellent. You expect me to be sad about an insurance company getting out of the health care business? I don't think they should be there in the first place. Good riddance. The more that get out, the clearer the way will be to what we really need.
    Oh no....I was being sincere and knew you would be pleased. There was no sarcasm directed in your direction for sure. Of course....these employees will likely add to the unemployment roles....but such a minor thing in the big picture of attaining a single payer system. Of course....this is just the first straw.....more to follow. I'll tell you one thing.....The Principal was one of the best contracts out there and when an issue came up, the nicest and easiest folks to deal with. Nice folks out in Iowa.
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  16.    #216  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Oh no....I was being sincere and knew you would be pleased. There was no sarcasm directed in your direction for sure. Of course....these employees will likely add to the unemployment roles....but such a minor thing in the big picture of attaining a single payer system. Of course....this is just the first straw.....more to follow. I'll tell you one thing.....The Principal was one of the best contracts out there and when an issue came up, the nicest and easiest folks to deal with. Nice folks out in Iowa.

    Yep, it is minor, actually. But of course, the job loss of accountants, IRS employees, tax consultants and tax lawyers is just collateral damage of the flat tax, right? Got to break some eggs.
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    #217  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Yep, it is minor, actually. But of course, the job loss of accountants, IRS employees, tax consultants and tax lawyers is just collateral damage of the flat tax, right? Got to break some eggs.
    naw, they'll just have different employers. Someone still has to 'do da math'.
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  18. #218  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    That article of yours says, "The McDonald's plan, according to the report, has higher overhead costs because it provides insurance to a highly transient population of hourly workers in its restaurants and would not likely meet the minimum requirements of the new law." If they can't meet the minimum requirements of the law, as it is understood, then it appears McDonald's will have to consider dropping such coverage. Now....if HHS wants to change the rules for certain companies, they can do that, I guess. The insurance companies have been trying to get clarification on this as well. You would have thought in a bill that is 2500 pages, they could have made this a little more clear, don't you think? By the way....I'm glad the source of your story is ABC....whew....they certainly would never back the obama administration, huh? LOL
    Oh yes. I forgot that all news that is not FOX is lies and nothing more than a propaganda machine for Obama. Lets take a closer look at how the "liberal media" stacks up...

    Of all of the A.M. talk stations nationwide, around 90-95% of them are strictly conservative talk. I live here in the "liberal" are of Los Angeles and there are 4 A.M. conservative stations and just 1 progressive station. Those conservative stations ALL have talk shows with FOX News commentators as show hosts, as well.

    In TV news, FOX News holds the lions share of the ratings. So I guess that would mean that the conservatives are controlling the media?

    FOX is also the station that tells you to not trust any other station because they all lie. That wouldn't have anything to with a corporate station wanting to build up ratings to charge a premium for ad time, now would it? Is a Chevy dealer going to sing the praises of the new Ford F150? That way, the owners of FOX News, Rupert Murdock (an Australian) and some Saudi Prince with ties to terrorist groups, can make tons of money whipping people up into a needless frenzy.

    Just after Beck's little sermon at the Lincoln Memorial there were a few democratic rallies and functions with huge turnouts. Did the big bad liberal media cover them? Nope, they all talked about the Beck rally, further fueling his flame of in-sighting unwarranted fear to the masses.

    Murdock also owns one of the biggest news papers in the nation. The very one you quoted...

    Are you sensing a pattern here? Or nations news and media is slowing becoming the "business" of just one man, and he is not even American!!! That is the only thing keeping him from actually owning radio stations, is his citizenship. But his minions can work there and spread his agenda.

    You conservatives are so worried about the government taking everything over but how is it any better if it is all ran by one man that is pushing his own rhetoric?
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  19. #219  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Thanks for pointing out how another Rupert Murdock media outlet is putting out lies, yet again. Maybe you should learn to fact check before you just send out the Right's propaganda...

    McDonald's Fights Back Against Report That It Will Drop Health Care Plan - ABC News
    Looks like when there is smoke, there is likely fire. The HHS is scrambling to get this resolved because they realize this could backfire on them. As I said in a post yesterday, and appears I was right, they will work out deals with companies and tweak yet another stupid part of the bill so that it will work (pelosi,"we have to pass the bill before we know what is in it"). It still appears as if McDonald's was quite concerned about this and the original story was correct. Will they have to drop these "mini" plans now? It looks like not because as I said, the HHS will make it right....wink, wink.
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  20. #220  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Looks like when there is smoke, there is likely fire. The HHS is scrambling to get this resolved because they realize this could backfire on them. As I said in a post yesterday, and appears I was right, they will work out deals with companies and tweak yet another stupid part of the bill so that it will work (pelosi,"we have to pass the bill before we know what is in it"). It still appears as if McDonald's was quite concerned about this and the original story was correct. Will they have to drop these "mini" plans now? It looks like not because as I said, the HHS will make it right....wink, wink.
    Do you have any proof of this or is it just your speculation? In regards to McDonald's, they employ mostly part-time and pay minimum wage. How many other companies do know of that do that AND offer any kind of insurance? Pointing out the ONE company that does, and may cease to do so, is not an accurate reflection of the upcoming health bill. You are grasping at super-sized straws here...
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