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  1.    #1  
    This comes as no surprise to me, particularly since we have become so embarrassingly spineless in bending over to allow religions of notorious passion to erect their mosques of conquest wherever they wish. One example being the site of 9/11 and even the site in Pennsylvania where another muslim terrorist hijack / crash took place. Why cant liberals see the pattern here? We allow the religion which drove such insanity to stamp down their monuments of victory over Americans at the very sites where the tragedies happen. Liberals are truly a fascinating bunch.

    These "mosques" are comparable to the monuments one would find in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania commemorating what happened there. This is what they do all over the world. Spain "kurdova" is a case in point. For a religion that claims love and peace, what other reason would they have in building a mosque at the wtc site if it wasnt to stick a sword in the sides of all Americans who suffered at the hands of muslim maniacs?

    This is America. Freedom of religion. Fine. They can build mosques anywhere they wish in New York. Had they been tactful, theyd have chosen a site far away from such a lightning rod for their faith. If they were truly compassionate and respectful to the American victims meaning to get along with Americans, wouldnt they have understood that building such a site would be inflammatory and painful? They could have built it somewhere else and no one would have had a problem with it. But they KNOW it angers us, which is why they chose that site. More troubling, the liberals of this country WANT the mosque placed there. Im not quite sure who to be more disgusted with to be frank.

    Their response is the typical "Ignore the racist conservatives in our country. Go ahead and stamp your conquest mosques right down on top of the sites of our most horrific terrorist attacks. Have your way with us because we want so badly for people to think we are broad minded. "

    Tell me, if this is acceptable under the freedom of religion act, then why shouldnt David Duke be allowed to erect a KKK building right in front of the White House? Right smack dab in front of Obama`s bedroom window where he can wake up to see it every morning. So what if it brings pain to Oprah Winfrey, Sharpton, Jackson, and the Obamas. These people must have their places to gather, right?

    What`s wrong with that? Sure its a horribly racist group, but freedom of speech and religion, correct? You cant touch them, right? Why cant they then build a monument to the Japanese in Pearl Harbor? Why shouldnt a faith harboring the views of the furor during the third reich be allowed to erect a stature in the middle of Israel?

    So now we will have these mosques of conquest on top of the WTC ground zero to act as muslim victory edifices. Sure, because building it there would embolden "would be" terrorists when visiting there, reminding them of what is possible when birds of a feather gather together with enough bad intent in mind. Nevermind the pain it would cause innocent Americans. By the way, who is paying for the construction of such a building? And let me guess, it will operate tax free because its a "place of religion" won`t it? Amazing. Come on folks, wake up.

    The new campaign song for the left should seriously be the chili peppers` tune:

    Give it away, give it away, give it away now... give it away, give it away, give it away now.....


    I really am ashamed of our country at this point. The total lack of pride and complete spinelessness in appeasing islam at the expense of so many Americans is absolutely disgusting. Minnesota or might I call it New Somalia is case in point.
    Last edited by treobk214; 09/22/2010 at 08:55 PM.
  2.    #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by konsole View Post
    +1
    Awesome. Another proud liberal enabler. Nevermind me and the way these attacks may have affected my family and those I knew.

    You are truly a compassionate bunch.
  3. #3  
    Well, we don't want to advise the terrorists on tactics on where they should build recruitment centers. Obviously, we want them to put it in a well supervised area. I'm really not seeing your point.
    .,;-#$^***^$#-;,.

  4. #4  
    Let me ask you a question. I wan you to take your time, then reply.


    what do you HONESTLY think will create more ****ed off extremest Muslims. Having a mosque build near ground zero, or denying them the right to have one?
  5.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by konsole View Post
    Well, we don't want to advise the terrorists on tactics on where they should build recruitment centers. Obviously, we want them to put it in a well supervised area. I'm really not seeing your point.
    My point is, they choose to build virtually on top of sensitive locations which rouses suspicion. It suggests that they are insensitive to how it might affect the victims. The proximities to the sites of the tragedies suggests that they want to build there in honor of the events! On the ten year anniversary no less.

    Had they built it in inconspicuous areas there wouldnt be a problem. Can you not understand this? Do you not see how this would be unwise on their part?
  6.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by nimer55 View Post
    Let me ask you a question. I wan you to take your time, then reply.


    what do you HONESTLY think will create more ****ed off extremest Muslims. Having a mosque build near ground zero, or denying them the right to have one?
    You prove my points exactly. It is absolutely stunning that you are more concerned with ****ed off extremist muslims than standing up for ****ed off AMERICANS.

    I want YOU to take your time and reply.

    Unbelievable.

    If you read my post, I said they have the freedom to build their mosques in this country. Just not at the sites of the 9/11 attacks for God`s sake! It offends the victims harmed by their extremists! If they wanted to avoid controversy and resentment, and had the feelings of non muslim Americans in mind, they would have chosen another site. This is not a difficult point to get across
    Last edited by treobk214; 09/22/2010 at 09:40 PM.
  7. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    You prove my points exactly. It is absolutely stunning that you are more concerned with ****ed off extremist muslims than standing up for ****ed off AMERICANS.

    I want YOU to take your time and reply.

    Unbelievable.
    Sorry, I should of further expanded on that thought. (not being sarcastic, or anything, I actually mean it)

    I don't give a rats behind about those extremist, it's just that those extremist use stuff like this to turn more Muslims into extremist. I'm not worried about those 10,000, which might become 20, 000 one day. I'm worried about what those 10, 000 - 20, 000 will do to American, and other countries.

    I'm also worried about what impact it might have on Iran. Currently we are also worried about it's crazy government's nuclear plan. The people in Iran HATE the government. Most people have friends and family killed by the regime, and are looking to replace it with DEMOCRACY, which is looking to have strong relationships with the states, and will most likely be fairly easy to convince it to scrap it's nuclear program. Now the thing is, they need to keep a good image of the west in their minds, so they go after it. Also, their news sources are limited, so we must limit the kind of content the government can use as propaganda.
  8. #9  
    A gov't doesn't need actual "content" to create propaganda.
  9.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by nimer55 View Post
    Sorry, I should of further expanded on that thought. (not being sarcastic, or anything, I actually mean it)

    I don't give a rats behind about those extremist, it's just that those extremist use stuff like this to turn more Muslims into extremist. I'm not worried about those 10,000, which might become 20, 000 one day. I'm worried about what those 10, 000 - 20, 000 will do to American, and other countries.

    I'm also worried about what impact it might have on Iran. Currently we are also worried about it's crazy government's nuclear plan. The people in Iran HATE the government. Most people have friends and family killed by the regime, and are looking to replace it with DEMOCRACY, which is looking to have strong relationships with the states, and will most likely be fairly easy to convince it to scrap it's nuclear program. Now the thing is, they need to keep a good image of the west in their minds, so they go after it. Also, their news sources are limited, so we must limit the kind of content the government can use as propaganda.

    But I have a problem with appeasing muslims at the expense of American sensitivities. We are not denying them the right to build mosques. We are simply saying the WTC is our holy site if you will, and you would show us respect by building elsewhere. They should appreciate that we allow them to build their places of worship and at least show us that they respect that by showing compassion for our sources of pain. It works BOTH ways you know. Islam should not be a one way street if they intend to coexist with the rest of the world. Respect America. Actions speak louder than words.
  10. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbdoinit View Post
    A gov't doesn't need actual "content" to create propaganda.
    No, but most Iranians actually get some foreing news.. Not much, but enough to know it's actually happening.
  11. #12  
    Also, I fully see where your coming from, and fully understand your positions. It's just that I also understand that Educated Americans are more capable of putting emotions aside, and acting rationally then uneducated extremest Muslims in Pakistan. If things where the other way around: christens had more dangerous extremist, and the average Muslims lived in a more educated society, then I most likely would of changed my position.

    It's also the fact that when you look up at the graph above posted by "Psychonaut" you see the number of Muslims who's religion you crap on because of select fews. There are more Muslims in America, then there are Al Qaeda members. It's like we told christens they cannot have a church near places where KKK crimes occurred...


    Also, I'm an Atheist. I have to sacrifice my emotions more often, because I often realize that others are more attached to their emotions than I, and I am capable of ignoring them better then them. I'd sacrifice emotional feelings in some situations that might save a few life where a Muslim extremest might not. It's about being the bigger man.



    edit: If you think I am wrong, and that letting them build that will lead to more extremest, then by all means stand up for it. But if, you are doing cause of emotional reasons, then you might want to reconsider your position, cause I know no one here wants another 9/11.
  12.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by nimer55 View Post
    Also, I fully see where your coming from, and fully understand your positions. It's just that I also understand that Educated Americans are more capable of putting emotions aside, and acting rationally then uneducated extremest Muslims in Pakistan. If things where the other way around: christens had more dangerous extremist, and the average Muslims lived in a more educated society, then I most likely would of changed my position.

    It's also the fact that when you look up at the graph above posted by "Psychonaut" you see the number of Muslims who's religion you crap on because of select fews. There are more Muslims in America, then there are Al Qaeda members. It's like we told christens they cannot have a church near places where KKK crimes occurred...


    Also, I'm an Atheist. I have to sacrifice my emotions more often, because I often realize that others are more attached to their emotions than I, and I am capable of ignoring them better then them. I'd sacrifice emotional feelings in some situations that might save a few life where a Muslim extremest might not. It's about being the bigger man.



    edit: If you think I am wrong, and that letting them build that will lead to more extremest, then by all means stand up for it. But if, you are doing cause of emotional reasons, then you might want to reconsider your position, cause I know no one here wants another 9/11.

    I am an educated American, thank you. I think an Educated muslim would understand that such a location would be a lightning rod to the controversy surrounding their faith and their struggle to coexist. It does not suggest ignorance to point out that such a plan is not only callous, but ignorant AND arrogant simultaneously. Standing up for the sentimentalities of fellow Americans hardly displays the lack of ability to set emotions aside, but rather PRIDE.

    Allowing such building to go forward despite "complete understanding" of how it causes great pain to fellow Americans does not suggest Education, but rather weakness in my view, with the idea of appeasement rather than fairness to all involved.

    Answer this question for me. If a KKK monument was built on top of a site of horrific slavery, and living directly in front of it were thousands of African Americans whose ancestors died at the hands of slavery, would you honestly go to them, nimer, seriously, look them dead in the eye and tell them that in order to demonstrate their Education, you are to put your emotions to the side and let these people have their way here? Forget the pain it brings back. LIVE with it. Tough cookies. Be the "bigger man", because they have to be appeased as well.

    I would like you to answer that honestly.
    Last edited by treobk214; 09/22/2010 at 10:22 PM.
  13. #14  
    blah. this is all stupid trolling. there are idiots everywhere in every religion. what should we ask all nations to do? strap a thought reader to their heads and have someone draw mohammed and deem them as "dangerous" or "didn't care"? Maybe draw Jesus farking Mickey Mouse, just to cross reference?
    .,;-#$^***^$#-;,.

  14.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by konsole View Post
    blah. this is all stupid trolling. there are idiots everywhere in every religion. what should we ask all nations to do? strap a thought reader to their heads and have someone draw mohammed and deem them as "dangerous" or "didn't care"? Maybe draw Jesus farking Mickey Mouse, just to cross reference?
    Its all just so trivial to you isnt it? How redeeming and indicative of advanced education. Answer the question I just posed to Nimer. To simply call this trolling is a cop out and suggests evasion......


    which..... is typical.


    And incidentally, yes there are idiots in every religion. That is true. But the only idiots I see driving commercial jet planes into the broad sides of skyscrapers, beheading their family and others in the name of sharia law, threatening death to dutch cartoonists for drawing ..... well.. CARTOONS, or shooting innocent officers at US army bases are uh..... Muslims. What was timer saying about being the bigger person and being able to set aside emotions for more rational thought? Does this apply to muslims too or is that an onus which only we "educated" Americans are forced to bear? Arent we all equal and capable of thr same lofty ideals and respect for each other's faiths? If so shouldn't Muslims be held to the same standards without having to live in fear of them if they are not given their way? Let's think about this.... REALLY.
    Last edited by treobk214; 09/22/2010 at 11:20 PM.
  15. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    I am an educated American, thank you. I think an Educated muslim would understand that such a location would be a lightning rod to the controversy surrounding their faith and their struggle to coexist. It does not suggest ignorance to point out that such a plan is not only callous, but ignorant AND arrogant simultaneously. Standing up for the sentimentalities of fellow Americans hardly displays the lack of ability to set emotions aside, but rather PRIDE.

    Allowing such building to go forward despite "complete understanding" of how it causes great pain to fellow Americans does not suggest Education, but rather weakness in my view, with the idea of appeasement rather than fairness to all involved.

    Answer this question for me. If a KKK monument was built on top of a site of horrific slavery, and living directly in front of it were thousands of African Americans whose ancestors died at the hands of slavery, would you honestly go to them, nimer, seriously, look them dead in the eye and tell them that in order to demonstrate their Education, you are to put your emotions to the side and let these people have their way here? Forget the pain it brings back. LIVE with it. Tough cookies. Be the "bigger man", because they have to be appeased as well.

    I would like you to answer that honestly.
    2 things:

    1. Building an Al Qaeda statue in front of the 9/11 towers would be the same as putting up a kkk satue in front of a slavery location..

    Building a Mosque 4 blocks aways, is like building a Christian Church 4 blocks away from slavery sensitive site.


    2. Do you believe stopping it will increase, or decrease the chance of another attack... IF you believe decrease, then it's not something we can really discuss, because it's different opinions on how the minds of irrationals work, which is kind of irrational itself. You should also keep fighting for it regardless of who gets offended (since lives are more important than someones feelings).

    But if you believe we should do it to be sensitive to the deaths, and to keep "pride" even if it increases the chance of an attack, then its us having different philosophies on life, and again doubt I can change your mind. And there is no way you can change mine...


    (please do not take my wordings as a sign of disrespect. I understand 9/11 is a very sensitive issue, but am trying to figure out exactly why you appose it, and explain my situation.)
  16.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by nimer55 View Post
    2 things:

    1. Building an Al Qaeda statue in front of the 9/11 towers would be the same as putting up a kkk satue in front of a slavery location..

    Building a Mosque 4 blocks aways, is like building a Christian Church 4 blocks away from slavery sensitive site.


    2. Do you believe stopping it will increase, or decrease the chance of another attack... IF you believe decrease, then it's not something we can really discuss, because it's different opinions on how the minds of irrationals work, which is kind of irrational itself. You should also keep fighting for it regardless of who gets offended (since lives are more important than someones feelings).

    But if you believe we should do it to be sensitive to the deaths, and to keep "pride" even if it increases the chance of an attack, then its us having different philosophies on life, and again doubt I can change your mind. And there is no way you can change mine...


    (please do not take my wordings as a sign of disrespect. I understand 9/11 is a very sensitive issue, but am trying to figure out exactly why you appose it, and explain my situation.)

    I see that you say you do not mean disrespect, but I have explained to you multiple times why I oppose it. I gave VERY clear reasons. I am baffled as to why you choose not to understand.

    1) Al qaeda... what religion is this group driven by? Islam. Therefore, a religious site centered around lslam at a site of terrible attacks in the name of islam is by definition shockingly POOR TASTE! I should think moderate muslims who are peaceful, compassionate and nonconfrontational would innately understand this. Building away from such a disaster would show reverence to the event, and I can tell you that reasonable, rational Americans would appreciate the consideration and would improve relations considerably.

    Look, their decision has suddenly engendered a dramatic increase in anti muslim sentiment in the US. Its actually higher than the sentiment immediately after 9/11. Now you tell me if this was a good decision on their part in light of that fact. Have they helped their case in the world? Its not just Americans who are disgusted with this. There is widespread disapproval around the world!

    How do you think they would react if catholics built churches within muslim nations, particularly near sites where thousands of muslims were murdered in the name of radical Catholicism ages ago? Its not just Americans who are disgusted with this. There is widespread disapproval around the world!


    2) Lets flip your question. Do you believe letting them build there will decrease the chances of another attack? Really? I find that amusing to be honest. Its more a demonstration of boldness on their part and weakness on ours than anything else.

    So would it be irrational to oppose a building in a black neighborhood dedicated to a religion whose extremists are on a white supremacist crusade against non whites? If lives, indeed, are more important than feelings, nimer, are you saying it would be acceptable for such a building to be built before an African American community? Would that be healthy for community relations, do you think? The rationale being they wouldnt want to increase the chances of supremacist lynchings if they denied them the right to do so, correct?

    Look, we are already hearing about hate packages being sent to the sites of mosque constructions near the disaster sites. You tell me. Are they all just racists or could these simply be the symptoms of rational Americans offended by such a bold gesture? Are we to ignore the wishes of disapproving Americans simply for the reason of attempts at pampering a volatile religion?
    What does that say about our character? Our backbone?

    You say you are emotionally "superior" in your abilities to cut off emotion and operate with machine-like rationale, but surely to be human is to have emotions. Are you saying we should ignore them completely? To me it sounds like an unhealthy recommendation to me in my opinion.

    You can rationalize your position however you`d like. I dont agree with it at all and you are most certainly not going to change my position whatsoever either. Your philosophy appears to involve giving a community of people whose religion harbors the highest population of violent terrorists in the world whatever they want whereever they want for the sake of "appeasement".

    Put simply, this is caving in to a perceived possible bully because you are afraid they will attack if you dont give them what they want. Do you think a peaceful religion is likely to attack because they werent allowed to build a church somewhere? The solution is simple. Build it somewhere else and the anti muslim sentiment would dissipate and be forgotten.

    Its troubling to me that so many people cant or choose not to understand this fundamental point.
  17.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by nimer55 View Post
    2 things:

    1. Building an Al Qaeda statue in front of the 9/11 towers would be the same as putting up a kkk satue in front of a slavery location..

    Building a Mosque 4 blocks aways, is like building a Christian Church 4 blocks away from slavery sensitive site.


    2. Do you believe stopping it will increase, or decrease the chance of another attack... IF you believe decrease, then it's not something we can really discuss, because it's different opinions on how the minds of irrationals work, which is kind of irrational itself. You should also keep fighting for it regardless of who gets offended (since lives are more important than someones feelings).

    But if you believe we should do it to be sensitive to the deaths, and to keep "pride" even if it increases the chance of an attack, then its us having different philosophies on life, and again doubt I can change your mind. And there is no way you can change mine...


    (please do not take my wordings as a sign of disrespect. I understand 9/11 is a very sensitive issue, but am trying to figure out exactly why you appose it, and explain my situation.)

    I see that you say you do not mean disrespect, but I have explained to you multiple times why I oppose it. I gave VERY clear reasons. I am baffled as to why you choose not to understand.

    1) Al qaeda... what religion is this group driven by? Islam. Therefore, a religious site centered around lslam at a site of terrible attacks in the name of islam is by definition shockingly POOR TASTE! I should think moderate muslims who are peaceful, compassionate and nonconfrontational would innately understand this. Building away from such a disaster would show reverence to the event, and I can tell you that reasonable, rational Americans would appreciate the consideration and would improve relations considerably.

    Look, their decision has suddenly engendered a dramatic increase in anti muslim sentiment in the US. Its actually higher than the sentiment immediately after 9/11. Now you tell me if this was a good decision on their part in light of that fact. Have they helped their case in the world? Its not just Americans who are disgusted with this. There is widespread disapproval around the world!

    How do you think they would react if catholics built churches within muslim nations, particularly near sites where thousands of muslims were murdered in the name of radical Catholicism ages ago? Its not just Americans who are disgusted with this. There is widespread disapproval around the world!


    2) Lets flip your question. Do you believe letting them build there will decrease the chances of another attack? Really? I find that amusing to be honest. Its more a demonstration of boldness on their part and weakness on ours than anything else.

    So would it be irrational to oppose a building in a black neighborhood dedicated to a religion whose extremists are on a white supremacist crusade against non whites? If lives, indeed, are more important than feelings, nimer, are you saying it would be acceptable for such a building to be built before an African American community? Would that be healthy for community relations, do you think? The rationale being they wouldnt want to increase the chances of supremacist lynchings if they denied them the right to do so, correct?

    Look, we are already hearing about hate packages being sent to the sites of mosque constructions near the disaster sites. You tell me. Are they all just racists or could these simply be the symptoms of rational Americans offended by such a bold gesture? Are we to ignore the wishes of disapproving Americans simply for the reason of attempts at pampering a volatile religion?
    What does that say about our character? Our backbone?

    You say you are emotionally "superior" in your abilities to cut off emotion and operate with machine-like rationale, but surely to be human is to have emotions. Are you saying we should ignore them completely? To me it sounds like an unhealthy recommendation to me in my opinion.

    You can rationalize your position however you`d like. I dont agree with it at all and you are most certainly not going to change my position whatsoever either. Your philosophy appears to involve giving a community of people whose religion harbors the highest population of violent terrorists in the world whatever they want whereever they want for the sake of "appeasement".

    Put simply, this is caving in to a perceived possible bully because you are afraid they will attack if you dont give them what they want. Do you think a peaceful religion is likely to attack because they werent allowed to build a church somewhere? The solution is simple. Build it somewhere else and the anti muslim sentiment would dissipate and be forgotten.

    Its troubling to me that so many people cant or choose not to understand this fundamental point.
  18. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    I am an educated American, thank you. I think an Educated muslim would understand that such a location would be a lightning rod to the controversy surrounding their faith and their struggle to coexist. It does not suggest ignorance to point out that such a plan is not only callous, but ignorant AND arrogant simultaneously. Standing up for the sentimentalities of fellow Americans hardly displays the lack of ability to set emotions aside, but rather PRIDE.

    Allowing such building to go forward despite "complete understanding" of how it causes great pain to fellow Americans does not suggest Education, but rather weakness in my view, with the idea of appeasement rather than fairness to all involved.
    I can't believe I'm even bothering to respond to one of your posts, since they are routinely garbage, but you just don't seem to understand that "they" are Americans, that "their faith" is no more extremist than Christianity, and that you are failing to support the constitution and one of major reasons this country was founded. It causes "great pain" to people that fail to understand that painting all Muslims (yes, it should be capitalized) as extremists is a jingoistic absurdity. But that fits right in with your attitudes, so enjoy your misconceptions.
  19. Micael's Avatar
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    closed.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

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