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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Isn't it funny how this has been going? Remember when oil companies were evil for making profits on Americans? I mean, to make money on a product that people had to have was...well....it was down right mean (even though their profit margins were actually fairly low compared to other industries)! Then, insurance companies became evil for making profits....making profits (whooohoooo, 3 to 4%!) was just not right when it involved other peoples health. And now....davidra said it.....apparently any company making a profit is bad. HOLY MOTHER break please. This is where it is leading to.....it will be evil for any company to make a profit. Whether Davidra meant to say this or not, he likely said what he feels about any company making a profit....his words...."their profit grabbing behaviors". I guess all profits should be spread around to others, right Davidra? Why pay someone $8 an hour when you can up everyone's hourly rate to $12 an hour but make no profit. Oh wait....businesses would then do their "profit grabbing behavior" and up the price of their products to be evil again. And in case I haven't said it lately....obama is a socialist.
    Please try to not ramble so much. Profits on the back of US workers should be regulated. I realize you don't give a damn about the middle class, but many do. Profits are just fine, and would be just fine if companies hired American workers. Is there something about that that seems anti-American to you, or do you just not give a cr ap?

    Oil companies...right, making their largest profits ever and *****ing about trying to make their drilling safer. What a joke.

    Oil Company Profits on Fire

    The oil industry is pumping out profits nearly as fast as the well near the sunken Deepwater Horizon rig expels a torrent of oil into the Gulf of Mexico.

    • The world's largest publicly traded oil producer Exxon Mobil Corp. said Thursday that first-quarter earnings rose 38 percent. The earnings missed Wall Street's mark a bit, though, due to rising health care costs.
    • Occidental Petroleum said Thursday that its first-quarter profit tripled compared with a year earlier, while Apache Corp said Thursday it swung from a $1.7 billion loss last year to a $705 million profit this past quarter.
    • Chevron Corp, which will report results on Friday, this week raised its quarterly dividend by 6 percent.

    Other oil companies have produced strong growth. BP, which hired the failed rig, and Royal Dutch Shell exceeded expectations when they reported their first quarter results earlier in April.


    Read more: Oil Profits On Fire - Daily Brief - Portfolio.com
  2. #122  
    I haven't been in this thread much at all. But everything Davidra has said I completely agree with.
    Look when there are still profits being made and jobs are being cut something is wrong. The money isn't going to back the workers in a raise it's going to the CEO and the others at the top in their bonus checks. All the people at the bottom, do all the work and when the top needs more money or they find a way to shave a few pennies off here and there, the workers are once again the ones punished. Either by layoffs, hours cut, or pay decreased.
    How could you support the corporations at all when they don't give a damn about me or you. The only thing on their minds is money and how to get more of it.
  3. Micael's Avatar
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    #123  
    Your 'evil' corporation is nothing more than a group of individuals working together to provide products and services to others. Normal everyday people who are struggling to pay their bills. Profits are divided amongst their employees and amongst shareholders. These funds are then spent and fuel local economies. Much of these profits also go to charitable organizations.

    If we provided a more business friendly environment for corporations, there would be more jobs here in the U.S.

    Am I the only one here that's worked for a corporation?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesrjr86 View Post
    I haven't been in this thread much at all. But everything Davidra has said I completely agree with.
    Look when there are still profits being made and jobs are being cut something is wrong. The money isn't going to back the workers in a raise it's going to the CEO and the others at the top in their bonus checks. All the people at the bottom, do all the work and when the top needs more money or they find a way to shave a few pennies off here and there, the workers are once again the ones punished. Either by layoffs, hours cut, or pay decreased.
    How could you support the corporations at all when they don't give a damn about me or you. The only thing on their minds is money and how to get more of it.
    Isn't this the point of running a business? Companies do not exist to give charity to the public. They exist to make money. Ask yourself if you owned a business, large or small, and saw an opportunity to increase your profits, wouldn't you do it? Complaining that the CEO's and the Presidents and the owners of companies get richer and punish the workers is ridiculous. Yes, it sucks that one might have their hours cut or have to take a pay cut. But the company needs to do whatever possible to make a profit.
    Supply and demand doesn't only apply to goods and services, you know. If there are 1000 people applying for 100 jobs, the company can be picky about the type of worker it hires on and also with the salary and benefits it supplies those workers. The opposite works as well. The problem today is that the workforce is severely diluted and companies, like anyone else, are looking for ways to cut down and keep their bottom line even. Perhaps instead of begrudging those on the top their high salaries, you should look at reasons there are so many people in the workforce looking for a job, and at those who are being added everyday to compete with the others already in the pool.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

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  5. #125  
    I still think, and I am sure someone here is gonna tell me I am wrong, that there is no difference between a unionized or a nonuion employee. lets face it, in a free market situation unions are falling right in line with the free market system.

    now let me explain, heheheh... i am business A, I supply a service to a given segment of the population. Be it computer repair, window washing or whatever, I charge what the market will stand.

    is this any different then a union? no it is not. A union offers a service, if the person contracting that service decides the price is too high then he/she/it can negotiate a new contract. ONCE the old one has run out. This is no different then an individual offering similar or the same service to the company in question.

    If a skill set is being offered up by union or nonunion people, its the highest bidder who will get the skill set. Just like your free market system that you like to crow about.
    Oh wait, you dont like it when workers walk off the job. Well is that any different then say micael deciding that he is under paid, and walking away? NO.

    The biggest complaint i see over and over again is that the unions have driven up the costs of everything. Due to high wages, etc etc.. but, there is always a but..this is no different than a single company driving up its prices without union employees. They price themselves out of the market. Just like union employees who make outrageous demands.

    Remember, it takes two to agree on a union contract. Both the managers and the union, just like a single employee and a manager. there is no difference. none.
    you just dont like to see the labor pool out with signs demanding a living wage. All the while they are stopping a company from producing profits. How dare they demand higher wages, how dare they demand safe working conditions, how dare they etc etc..
    If it wasnt for unions, American working stiffs would still be vastly under paid, (not saying they arent now) and working in 19th century conditions.
    Actually, with the american perchant of fighting back, most of the execs would probably have been burned at the stake.. that is just my two canadian cents worth..
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  6. Micael's Avatar
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    #126  
    Back on topic, get your democrat talking points here. I thought it was a good piece, actually.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    Isn't this the point of running a business? Companies do not exist to give charity to the public. They exist to make money. Ask yourself if you owned a business, large or small, and saw an opportunity to increase your profits, wouldn't you do it? Complaining that the CEO's and the Presidents and the owners of companies get richer and punish the workers is ridiculous. Yes, it sucks that one might have their hours cut or have to take a pay cut. But the company needs to do whatever possible to make a profit.
    Do you buy your music or do you torrent it from the internet without paying? If it's the former then you're being ethical but losing money, if the latter you are being unethical but saving money.

    That's the real issue, companies increasing profits through unethical practices. It's one thing when companies need to cut back on workers because they need to keep themselves in the black. It's another when they do things to cut back on their workers to increase their numbers that are already in the black. And on top of that how often they will try to cut so deeply into the lower workers rather then possibly looking at the real problems and excessive costs in the upper management.
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesrjr86 View Post
    I haven't been in this thread much at all. But everything Davidra has said I completely agree with.
    Look when there are still profits being made and jobs are being cut something is wrong. The money isn't going to back the workers in a raise it's going to the CEO and the others at the top in their bonus checks. All the people at the bottom, do all the work and when the top needs more money or they find a way to shave a few pennies off here and there, the workers are once again the ones punished. Either by layoffs, hours cut, or pay decreased.
    How could you support the corporations at all when they don't give a damn about me or you. The only thing on their minds is money and how to get more of it.
    This is a classic example of why I find this place interesting because I constantly find people who believe like this. When my step-son was working for a local plant nursery (many years ago), he got annoyed because while he was doing all the manual work, the boss/owner was going around telling people what to do. I had to explain to my then 20 year old, that if he didn't like it, he could always quit and start a company of some type and then he could tell HIS employees what to do and sit back and make the money. I explained how this individual was risking HIS money and if the business failed, he (my step-son) would move onto another job while this guy who took the risk with HIS money, will be left holding bills and wondering what he was going to do. My 30 year old step-son is now surviving this horrible real estate market and is his own boss with a couple of employees. He doesn't complain any more about anyone telling him what to do.

    Now, a smart businessman takes a good portion of his profits and puts it aside for times like we have now. If he/she makes huge profits during good times and blows it, and then has problems during slow times because they didn't save, that will be their problem. Some businesses, will do quite well during these times even when other businesses are struggling. Does that mean those businesses should cut back on their profits and hire others just to be nice? When that business was formed, did he/she start the business with the number 1 objective to "Provide high paying jobs to as many people as possible"? I would say it was unlikely the reason. Most people take a risk with THEIR OWN MONEY to try and start a business to provide for themselves and their family. Heaven forbid! I really don't know where you folks get your ideas about businesses. Does someone like Stevesjr86 really understand what it takes to start a business? I would guess he is 24 (unless the '86 is his graduation year?) so he will likely come around once he understands that the folks at the "top getting their bonus checks" were likely at one top near the bottom but worked their way up the corporate ladder. Oh sure, some have it handed to them, but most worked their way up. Believe it or not, there are some people who honestly don't want to take the initiative to work their way up the ladder because they would rather have no worries when they leave the job at 5:00. Those at the top? They are usually dealing with work issues when others are sleeping. Oh...and by the way, the American car companies did exactly what stevenjr86 said companies should do, pay their employees high salaries and give outrageous benefits to employees (all employees) while apparently not worrying about the future. Fortunately for them, they had a government which rewarded stupidity and bailed them out once again.

    As for davidra, he totally blows my mind because he is old enough....I mean really old....to know better. I think he sometimes just likes to say things to get a reaction because he can't possibly think like daThomas does, can he? Come on davidra, tells us you really are joking in regards to how businesses shouldn't make a profit....come on.....I see you grinning....you can do it.
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

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  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Do you buy your music or do you torrent it from the internet without paying? If it's the former then you're being ethical but losing money, if the latter you are being unethical but saving money.

    That's the real issue, companies increasing profits through unethical practices. It's one thing when companies need to cut back on workers because they need to keep themselves in the black. It's another when they do things to cut back on their workers to increase their numbers that are already in the black. And on top of that how often they will try to cut so deeply into the lower workers rather then possibly looking at the real problems and excessive costs in the upper management.
    Sooooo.....you're saying if through increased efficiencies or slower times, a company can meet current demands with 100 employees but employee 120 ee's, they should keep those extra 20 even if they are standing around doing nothing?

    And by your music example, are you saying that if the business man decides to layoff those 20 people (saving money), he/she is being unethical? Really? Would it be more ethical to keep the extra 20, run the business into bankruptcy thus having to let all 120 employees go? Are you people the same people that work with obama? That is, plenty of school knowledge but no real world knowledge?
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

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  10. Micael's Avatar
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    #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Do you buy your music or do you torrent it from the internet without paying? If it's the former then you're being ethical but losing money, if the latter you are being unethical but saving money.

    That's the real issue, companies increasing profits through unethical practices. It's one thing when companies need to cut back on workers because they need to keep themselves in the black. It's another when they do things to cut back on their workers to increase their numbers that are already in the black. And on top of that how often they will try to cut so deeply into the lower workers rather then possibly looking at the real problems and excessive costs in the upper management.
    Companies that overwork or mishandle their employees soon find themselves without good employees and their product suffers. This is a real issue, but it's NOT something we need the government to control.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Your 'evil' corporation is nothing more than a group of individuals working together to provide products and services to others. Normal everyday people who are struggling to pay their bills.
    Quite the "struggle" as you put it...

    Average Chief Executive Officer (CEO) Salary. Chief Executive Officer (CEO) Job, Career Education &

    Profits are divided amongst their employees and amongst shareholders. These funds are then spent and fuel local economies.
    And that is why unemployment is down but the heads of the larger corps are still receiving record salaries and bonuses? Let me ask you a question... what will help the economy more? One person with $10mil or 100 people with $100,000? 100 people living on $100,000 will generate more for the economy than 1 person sitting on $10mil. And that is what we have now, a few sitting on all of the money, and not spreading it around, or to put it in Conservative terms, they patched the trickle.

    Much of these profits also go to charitable organizations.
    Lets be honest here. Just enough gets donated to avoid paying taxes...

    If we provided a more business friendly environment for corporations, there would be more jobs here in the U.S.
    The largest consumer market in the world is not a "business friendly environment"?!?!

    Am I the only one here that's worked for a corporation?
    I have worked for a couple large corps. and a few small family businesses...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

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  12. Micael's Avatar
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    #132  
    Somehow I get the feeling that however I respond, you'll reject it
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Do you buy your music or do you torrent it from the internet without paying? If it's the former then you're being ethical but losing money, if the latter you are being unethical but saving money.

    That's the real issue, companies increasing profits through unethical practices. It's one thing when companies need to cut back on workers because they need to keep themselves in the black. It's another when they do things to cut back on their workers to increase their numbers that are already in the black. And on top of that how often they will try to cut so deeply into the lower workers rather then possibly looking at the real problems and excessive costs in the upper management.
    Soooooo many problems with this post. If they can afford to get rid of workers and increase their bottom line, so be it. There are problems with doing this from the companies standpoint (lower worker moral, risk of over-extending remaining workforce, etc) but there is nothing ethically wrong with this, unless you base your ethical standards on upper management being bad and "lower workers" as being good.
    And what is wrong with profits again? If you are in the black, you should just be thankful that you have profits and stay there, without ever trying to increase the profits, grow as a company, and hopefully be able to create more stable jobs in the future?
    Strange that you would bring up torrents. I'm just going to guess that by doing so, you yourself pirate music. Just a guess.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
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  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Somehow I get the feeling that however I respond, you'll reject it
    Not when you finally realize how right I am and how I am a genius at everything!!!
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    This is a classic example of why I find this place interesting because I constantly find people who believe like this. When my step-son was working for a local plant nursery (many years ago), he got annoyed because while he was doing all the manual work, the boss/owner was going around telling people what to do. I had to explain to my then 20 year old, that if he didn't like it, he could always quit and start a company of some type and then he could tell HIS employees what to do and sit back and make the money. I explained how this individual was risking HIS money and if the business failed, he (my step-son) would move onto another job while this guy who took the risk with HIS money, will be left holding bills and wondering what he was going to do. My 30 year old step-son is now surviving this horrible real estate market and is his own boss with a couple of employees. He doesn't complain any more about anyone telling him what to do.

    Now, a smart businessman takes a good portion of his profits and puts it aside for times like we have now. If he/she makes huge profits during good times and blows it, and then has problems during slow times because they didn't save, that will be their problem. Some businesses, will do quite well during these times even when other businesses are struggling. Does that mean those businesses should cut back on their profits and hire others just to be nice? When that business was formed, did he/she start the business with the number 1 objective to "Provide high paying jobs to as many people as possible"? I would say it was unlikely the reason. Most people take a risk with THEIR OWN MONEY to try and start a business to provide for themselves and their family. Heaven forbid! I really don't know where you folks get your ideas about businesses. Does someone like Stevesjr86 really understand what it takes to start a business? I would guess he is 24 (unless the '86 is his graduation year?) so he will likely come around once he understands that the folks at the "top getting their bonus checks" were likely at one top near the bottom but worked their way up the corporate ladder. Oh sure, some have it handed to them, but most worked their way up. Believe it or not, there are some people who honestly don't want to take the initiative to work their way up the ladder because they would rather have no worries when they leave the job at 5:00. Those at the top? They are usually dealing with work issues when others are sleeping. Oh...and by the way, the American car companies did exactly what stevenjr86 said companies should do, pay their employees high salaries and give outrageous benefits to employees (all employees) while apparently not worrying about the future. Fortunately for them, they had a government which rewarded stupidity and bailed them out once again.

    As for davidra, he totally blows my mind because he is old enough....I mean really old....to know better. I think he sometimes just likes to say things to get a reaction because he can't possibly think like daThomas does, can he? Come on davidra, tells us you really are joking in regards to how businesses shouldn't make a profit....come on.....I see you grinning....you can do it.
    I never said businesses shouldn't make a profit; by all means, show me exactly where I said any such thing. I said they shouldn't make a profit by firing American workers, then outsourcing jobs to third world countries. Your example is ludicrous. How many garden nurseries outsource to India? I'm not talking about small businesses; they are getting screwed by the republicans enough without including them in the discussion. And don't give me the crap about how the highest 2% include so many small businesses....it doesn't. That is total republitard lying points (PolitiFact | Most small businesses won't be subject to Obama's tax increases)

    I'm talking about corporations. They deserve to be regulated if they are continuing to contribute to the destruction of the middle class. But as I said, you don't seem to care about them at all.
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Quite the "struggle" as you put it...

    Average Chief Executive Officer (CEO) Salary. Chief Executive Officer (CEO) Job, Career Education &



    And that is why unemployment is down but the heads of the larger corps are still receiving record salaries and bonuses? Let me ask you a question... what will help the economy more? One person with $10mil or 100 people with $100,000? 100 people living on $100,000 will generate more for the economy than 1 person sitting on $10mil. And that is what we have now, a few sitting on all of the money, and not spreading it around, or to put it in Conservative terms, they patched the trickle.



    Lets be honest here. Just enough gets donated to avoid paying taxes...



    The largest consumer market in the world is not a "business friendly environment"?!?!



    I have worked for a couple large corps. and a few small family businesses...
    Unbelievable.
    A few sitting on all the money and not spreading it around. The start of and liberal argument for wealth distribution. "It's not fair that they're getting rich and we're not!" Newsflash, they are the heads of businesses/corporations. My guess is that they put a ton of work into getting to where they are at. They have a responsibility to the company, the workers, and the shareholders to be as profitable as possible, and with this job comes a high salary.
    And having a large consumer base does not make for a business-friendly environment. Taxes, regulations, and gov't interference is needed, but when taken to the extreme, makes it incredibly difficult not only to grow as a company, but to survive as well. Take a look at WI and the companies leaving the state for an example of what happens when you make it difficult on companies to do business.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

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  17. #137  
    I think the emerging schism in the Republican Party is between those who actually believe in the party's stated social agenda as well as their economic agenda (Tea Party, etc.) and those who in their heart of hearts don't really give a **** whether or not gay people get married, e.g., but who have nonetheless exploited flashpoint issues like that (or acquiesced to such exploitation) in order to build a voting bloc for the party's economic agenda.
  18. #138  
    I have discovered the core difference between Liberals and Conservatives. It comes down to this: Conservatives feel that an individual should be responsible for himself/herself first and foremost. Liberals believe that an individual should be responsible to the society first and foremost. A fundamental difference in thinking that, when you look at pretty much left vs right argument, you can apply to each person involved in that argument and, based on their answer, see which side they land on. Go ahead, check it out. Look at the posts from each person on this thread. It's amazing how well it works.
    I'll take responsibility for myself, thank you. If you want to take care of everyone else, that's your choice. But keep it a choice and don't force me to take care of the mother of 5 across the street without a job and yet able to talk on her cell phone while eating McDonald's in front of her cable tv, yet for some reason can't afford healthcare.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  19. #139  
    I don't blame the companies for taking their production to where it can be done cheaper. Nothing unethical about that.
    Like I said; I have no idea how we'll bring any back, or how to keep the ones here if they raise enough revenue to move their operation overseas.
    The tax break, or even the kick-back would have to be huge.
    There is just too many expenses related to doing business here.
    I've listed them in my previous posts.
    The American worker has priced himself out of a job.
    What the American worker wants is good and all, it's just a lot less profit for the business.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    I have discovered the core difference between Liberals and Conservatives. It comes down to this: Conservatives feel that an individual should be responsible for himself/herself first and foremost. Liberals believe that an individual should be responsible to the society first and foremost. A fundamental difference in thinking that, when you look at pretty much left vs right argument, you can apply to each person involved in that argument and, based on their answer, see which side they land on. Go ahead, check it out. Look at the posts from each person on this thread. It's amazing how well it works.
    I'll take responsibility for myself, thank you. If you want to take care of everyone else, that's your choice. But keep it a choice and don't force me to take care of the mother of 5 across the street without a job and yet able to talk on her cell phone while eating McDonald's in front of her cable tv, yet for some reason can't afford healthcare.
    And highways, air traffic control, disease control, drug safety, defense, education are also somehow accomplished by hundreds of millions of individual choices? How does that work exactly?

    As for the mother of 5 across the street, her situation represents 2.5 percent of TANF recipients according to the latest figures. 50 percent of TANF payments go to households with one child.

    Characteristics and Financial Circumstances - FY 2006
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