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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    You know what? As big as government is getting, who can blame them for opting to dodge taxes by moving offshore? It's called staying competitive in a global market. You expect them to stay on US soil, get raped by the tax machine, compete with countries that do not have those taxes, and cheaper labor, and survive?

    Do the math. But I know you won't. You agenda is political and has nothing to do with jobs.

    You really think taxes are the cause? Not close. In fact, corporate income taxes in India are considerably higher than in the US.

    http://www.worldwide-tax.com/



    We tend to want to pay our countrymen a living wage. Sounds like you should be supporting illegal immigration. You seem to want to pay American citizens nothing. Tell me, do you long for Bangladesh existence for employees in the US of A? Nice.
    Last edited by davidra; 09/20/2010 at 07:26 PM.
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    Enviromental Regulations.
    Labor laws.
    Occupational Saftey & Hazard.
    Minimum wage. etc.
    Ah yes. lets go back to child labor, poor working conditions and slavery....

    Taxes aside, how could they have ever competed?
    We competed pretty well during the 50's 60' and 70's! Then again, we actually collected taxes from corps. back then...

    Why keep reducing it to just taxes?
    No matter what tax breaks you give them now, they're gone.
    Sadly, I agree. It is too late now. America is screwed.

    Oh, and I forgot Labor Unions.
    Yeah, they got too much power but what were working conditions like before unions? You would have no problem working 80 hours a week for $75 a month? Move to China and join the crowds committing suicide manufacturing Ipods. LOL
    Last edited by Kenanator; 09/20/2010 at 08:08 PM.
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    You know what? As big as government is getting, who can blame them for opting to dodge taxes by moving offshore? It's called staying competitive in a global market. You expect them to stay on US soil, get raped by the tax machine, compete with countries that do not have those taxes, and cheaper labor, and survive?

    Do the math. But I know you won't. You agenda is political and has nothing to do with jobs.
    And you touched on nothing I wrote, and just replied with partisan hackery. I did not mention any party affiliation in what I wrote. My "agenda" on this has nothing to do with politics and everything to with what's fair and what is good for the country. You seem to only be concerned with companies, that in all honesty, have screwed us all over and don't give 2 sh**s about you as long as you keep buying what they are selling.

    Face it, they have the tax cuts, subsidies, and loop holes and we have no jobs that we were promised. I don't get how you cannot see what is so clear...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Ah yes. lets go back to child labor, poor working conditions and slavery....
    I think you missed my point.
  5. #105  
    Ken,

    David's post is along similar lines of the point I was trying to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    You really think taxes are the cause? Not close. In fact, corporate income taxes in India are considerably higher than in the US.

    Taxes, Income Tax, Tax Rates, Tax updates Business News, Economy



    We tend to want to pay our countrymen a living wage....clip...
    All the good things provided to employees here in USA is what makes it cheaper to mfg overseas.
  6. #106  
    I also forgot about health coverage.
    Another reason to take your business overseas.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I also forgot about health coverage.
    Another reason to take your business overseas.
    I agree, but let business and everyone else acknowledge what happens when you move everything overseas. Business has exported so many jobs, they've lost their customer base. It's okay to move your business and export 200K to 300K jobs every 3 months or so, but when that happens, who is left to buy the product. Not the countries that business is exporting the jobs to and not all of the Americans who lost their jobs, because business exported the jobs to someplace that would do it cheaper.

    Now with the credit crash, America has had a wake up call and are trying to pay for what they buy. The days of paying for new cars, appliances, and living off of credit are over.

    The new statement is that people aren't spending and that's creating a downward spiral. The reality is that people never should have been spending and living on credit. Pay off bills and be better prepared for the next layoff, furlough, or pay cut. It will keep getting worse and regardless of who gets elected it will and should get worse.

    Everyone should stop spending, start carpooling, do w/o the new washing machine and only buy necessities. When that happens, and this economy can be supported based on that type spending, we'll stop spiraling downward.
  8. Micael's Avatar
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    #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    You really think taxes are the cause? Not close. In fact, corporate income taxes in India are considerably higher than in the US.

    Taxes, Income Tax, Tax Rates, Tax updates Business News, Economy



    We tend to want to pay our countrymen a living wage. Sounds like you should be supporting illegal immigration. You seem to want to pay American citizens nothing. Tell me, do you long for Bangladesh existence for employees in the US of A? Nice.
    I said nothing about personal income taxes. Not sure what your point is, but it's unrelated to mine.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I said nothing about personal income taxes. Not sure what your point is, but it's unrelated to mine.
    Really....you should read more closely. I said corporate income taxes. Try looking at the link. And you were railing about how high corporate taxes were, that those were the reason companies were going overseas, and that taxes were interfering with our participation in the "global market". The fact is that it's not our corporate taxes that are out of line, it's that we insist on actually paying our workers a living wage.
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Really....you should read more closely. I said corporate income taxes. Try looking at the link. And you were railing about how high corporate taxes were, that those were the reason companies were going overseas, and that taxes were interfering with our participation in the "global market". The fact is that it's not our corporate taxes that are out of line, it's that we insist on actually paying our workers a living wage.
    Good grief....just switch to the Fair Tax. And before you start saying how it only benefits the wealthy, read the darn book about it before passing judgement. It really doesn't lower taxes, but rather makes it easier to deal with and it forces folks who are now not paying taxes on their under the table money, drug money, etc involved in paying taxes when they buy things. Corporate taxes? $0. No corporate taxes. I know you libs will hate that, but read the book.

    Heck....go to this website and run a comparison on how YOUR situation would change under the Fair Tax. They have a neat calculator....go ahead....do it. Get your head out of the sand and check it out. Don't say how bad it is before studying and understanding it. Here is the link:

    Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation
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  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I think what you over look is the drop in personal federal income taxes from a high of 70% to 28% (I think I said it went to 38.5%, but that is wrong, it actually was lowered to 28% in 1988, my mistake). Now, if someone's personal taxes were reduced by that amount, I think the fact that their OASDI rate went from 10.16% in 1980 to 12.12% in 1988 is probably a pretty good trade off. So yes, while I will conceed there were other taxes (I think a higher gas tax, for example) that went up, what I was referring to was the percentage of personal income that one paid in taxes went down. I stand by my statement.
    oh, so what you meant was Reagan didnt raise ALL taxes. Just some. I get it.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


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  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    oh, so what you meant was Reagan didnt raise ALL taxes. Just some. I get it.
    If something was 10....and it is reduced by 5....but then raised by 1....are you still lower?
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  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    If something was 10....and it is reduced by 5....but then raised by 1....are you still lower?
    If you cut taxes on 98% of the population and raise them on 2%, are you still lower?
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Good grief....just switch to the Fair Tax. And before you start saying how it only benefits the wealthy, read the darn book about it before passing judgement. It really doesn't lower taxes, but rather makes it easier to deal with and it forces folks who are now not paying taxes on their under the table money, drug money, etc involved in paying taxes when they buy things. Corporate taxes? $0. No corporate taxes. I know you libs will hate that, but read the book.

    Heck....go to this website and run a comparison on how YOUR situation would change under the Fair Tax. They have a neat calculator....go ahead....do it. Get your head out of the sand and check it out. Don't say how bad it is before studying and understanding it. Here is the link:

    Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation
    Frankly, I could care less about any plan that removes all corporate taxation. And I really could care less how it impacts my situation. The fair tax will do nothing to limit the ability of the private sector to continue their profit grabbing behaviors by sending jobs to third world countries and taking jobs away from Americans. If you want to tie taxation changes with restrictions on that, I'm all for it....but corporations would never agree to give up their third world profits for the sake of the American worker. They've already demonstrated that.
  15. Micael's Avatar
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    #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Frankly, I could care less about any plan that removes all corporate taxation. And I really could care less how it impacts my situation. The fair tax will do nothing to limit the ability of the private sector to continue their profit grabbing behaviors by sending jobs to third world countries and taking jobs away from Americans. If you want to tie taxation changes with restrictions on that, I'm all for it....but corporations would never agree to give up their third world profits for the sake of the American worker. They've already demonstrated that.
    Wait! Profit grabbing behaviors is a bad thing?

    Anyway, taxes is only part of the story. The single greatest reason for jobs being pushed offshore can be summed up in just one word; unions.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. #116  
    Lets face it, America is still the number one consumer nation of the world. I think we can agree on that.
    I have said this before, and it is something that many miss, including the big corps. If your average middle class american is NOT working, profits for those big corps drop. Eventually they will come to realize that in the corp world. The thing that gets me most, is the claims of high wages, is what is driving the big boys an girls off shore. But when they go, prices remain high on the same product. That makes no sense to me.

    Eventually, the big boys and girls in the corp world will get it. For now, we suffer.
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Wait! Profit grabbing behaviors is a bad thing?

    Anyway, taxes is only part of the story. The single greatest reason for jobs being pushed offshore can be summed up in just one word; unions.
    Well, you went an did it.. lol.. unions, hmmmm.. are not unions just an example of your much vaunted free market?
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  18. #118  
    I also forgot about Worker's Compensation.

    Add it all up.
    The American Worker is a huge profit loss.
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Wait! Profit grabbing behaviors is a bad thing?

    Anyway, taxes is only part of the story. The single greatest reason for jobs being pushed offshore can be summed up in just one word; unions.
    Isn't it funny how this has been going? Remember when oil companies were evil for making profits on Americans? I mean, to make money on a product that people had to have was...well....it was down right mean (even though their profit margins were actually fairly low compared to other industries)! Then, insurance companies became evil for making profits....making profits (whooohoooo, 3 to 4%!) was just not right when it involved other peoples health. And now....davidra said it.....apparently any company making a profit is bad. HOLY MOTHER break please. This is where it is leading to.....it will be evil for any company to make a profit. Whether Davidra meant to say this or not, he likely said what he feels about any company making a profit....his words...."their profit grabbing behaviors". I guess all profits should be spread around to others, right Davidra? Why pay someone $8 an hour when you can up everyone's hourly rate to $12 an hour but make no profit. Oh wait....businesses would then do their "profit grabbing behavior" and up the price of their products to be evil again. And in case I haven't said it lately....obama is a socialist.
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  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Wait! Profit grabbing behaviors is a bad thing?

    Anyway, taxes is only part of the story. The single greatest reason for jobs being pushed offshore can be summed up in just one word; unions.
    Sometimes your closely held beliefs are just plain wrong. The percent of union jobs in the US?

    7%.

    Think that's driving them offshore? You're wrong.

    Profit grabbing behavior is a wonderful thing.....when it benefits American workers and doesn't harm them.

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