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  1. #461  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    I actually think the tax rates and government spending during the Clinton administration stuck a nice balance - provided enough room for economic growth while providing enough money to run the government and pay down debt, so a phase in of tax rates back to 2000 levels (for everyone) at the personal level would not be a deal breaker for me. However given the spending of the last 10 years I cannot say the same for government spending though - it needs a complete overhaul and drastic reductions.
    The government does have inefficiencies in its spending methods and those should be fixed but honestly have you looked at the differences adjusting any part of the budget would make? The major costs that are running up our debt are all war related. Trying to cut excess domestic spending before really dealing with the spending issues related to the wars would be like trying to fix your personal budget issues by switching to 1 or 2 lower energy light bulbs while continuing to buy that daily $4 coffee. An overhaul of government spending should start where we are hemorrhaging the most money and then go down from there.
  2. #462  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    LOL. Omg that's so rich! "cutting back tax incentives for shipping jobs overseas" does not mean that there was actual tax code that stated "if you ship jobs overseas, we'll give you X dollars off of your taxable income".

    It's political double talk. "tax incentives to move jobs offshore" EQUALS
    "tax liabilities that force you to move jobs offshore".

    BTW, thanks for offering to buy me lunch! I'm starved. How about some super hot wings, fries and beer?
    Oh, but you are wrong...

    Republicans block ending offshore jobs tax breaks | Reuters

    The Boston Globe Online: National/Foreign

    Tax breaks us companies moving overseas | James River Writers
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  3. Micael's Avatar
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    #463  
    Oh good. Now you found MORE articles using the same spin I called you on before. Quantity doesn't make up for incorrect

    Oh what now!?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. solarus's Avatar
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    #464  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    The government does have inefficiencies in its spending methods and those should be fixed but honestly have you looked at the differences adjusting any part of the budget would make? The major costs that are running up our debt are all war related. Trying to cut excess domestic spending before really dealing with the spending issues related to the wars would be like trying to fix your personal budget issues by switching to 1 or 2 lower energy light bulbs while continuing to buy that daily $4 coffee. An overhaul of government spending should start where we are hemorrhaging the most money and then go down from there.
    We should start across the board IMO. Cut everything. Iraq will be taking less and less money as only our "advisers" remain. It certainly appears Afghanistan will also be seeing a pull down in troops given indications from the Administration. You can restructure Social Security and Medicare so the organizations run more efficiently without necessarily cutting benefits to the point of too much pain. The image below gives an idea of where our tax dollars go (of course borrowed money isn't included) - I think there's room to make cutbacks on just about everything on the list. Given the state of our infrastructure I also think there needs to be re-ordering of priorities.

    Bottom line is that while Obama once argued we need a scalpel to fix the spending issues I really do think we need a sledge hammer.

    Some inventive thinking would help too - unfortunately neither of the two parties seem to be capable of such a thing.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by solarus; 10/01/2010 at 02:19 PM.
  5. #465  
    That tax "receipt" is a bit misleading. As you mentioned it doesn't include costs being piled on to the debt. The only thing on that list that would be likely to be changed with budget adjustments would be the National debt interest line. What you need to look at is how much of what is being paid through debt rather than taxes.
  6. #466  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Oh good. Now you found MORE articles using the same spin I called you on before. Quantity doesn't make up for incorrect

    Oh what now!?
    Just because you don't like it, does not mean it is "spin"....


    I imagine this is what you look like right now...

    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  7. #467  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Oh good. Now you found MORE articles using the same spin I called you on before. Quantity doesn't make up for incorrect

    Oh what now!?
    umm sorry micael, I am lost here, i read those articles, while in one case dated, the others are a little more current. how are they wrong?
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  8. #468  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Oh what now!?
  9. solarus's Avatar
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    #469  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    That tax "receipt" is a bit misleading. As you mentioned it doesn't include costs being piled on to the debt. The only thing on that list that would be likely to be changed with budget adjustments would be the National debt interest line. What you need to look at is how much of what is being paid through debt rather than taxes.
    You are saying we can't so let me borrow a phrase..."yes we can" Like I said, cut spending on everything on the list. The actual figures on my list aren't material - I included the list because it shows what we spend money on. Remember that reducing spending doesn't necessarily mean reduction of benefits, or less roads etc... Our government is overweight, its inefficient, slow to react, and needs to see some painful cuts. Even the Europeans have acknowledged their governments are too fat and making cuts (often times painful ones), why can't we. I'm not talking about eliminating any of the programs on the list (although I know some will argue that does need to happen), only making cuts in spending across the board.
    Last edited by solarus; 10/01/2010 at 02:38 PM.
  10. #470  
    I never said anything about "we can't" I said we should begin where we are piling on the most debt and head down from there. Our government system is terrible at doing things in parallel even when both sides are actually willing to work together rather than having one side throw a temper-tantrum screaming "NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!".
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    #471  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    I never said anything about "we can't" I said we should begin where we are piling on the most debt and head down from there. Our government system is terrible at doing things in parallel even when both sides are actually willing to work together rather than having one side throw a temper-tantrum screaming "NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!".
    I would argue our government is horrible at doing just one thing at a time, never mind several

    In all seriousness we'll have to agree to disagree on this one - one item at a time will take way too long. An easy way to start across the board cutting would be a spending freeze for everything but committed programs - i.e. Social Security and Medicare.
  12. #472  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    In all seriousness we'll have to agree to disagree on this one - one item at a time will take way too long. An easy way to start across the board cutting would be a spending freeze for everything but committed programs - i.e. Social Security and Medicare.
    You're arguing for a outright spending freeze on the least significant portions (cost-wise) of the budget.
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    #473  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    umm sorry micael, I am lost here, i read those articles, while in one case dated, the others are a little more current. how are they wrong?
    Not wrong. Spun. It just depends on which side of the fence you're standing on.

    Kind of like the current tax debate.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  14. #474  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Not wrong. Spun. It just depends on which side of the fence you're standing on.

    Kind of like the current tax debate.
    I got you a pillow to cry on...








    .
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
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    #475  
    Go ahead, revel in your wrongness!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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    #476  
    admit it. you know you wish you'd googled that first!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. solarus's Avatar
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    #477  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    You're arguing for a outright spending freeze on the least significant portions (cost-wise) of the budget.
    As a starting point yes - SS and MC will have to be addressed but its easier to start off with discretionary spending items first, as a practical matter. But again what I really want to see is some significant spending cuts not a spending freeze - I only mentioned spending freezes as a way to get the ball rolling practically.

    The FY2011 budget calls for 56% of Federal spending to go towards the following Mandatory budget items; Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, TARP, Jobs Programs, Health Care Reform, All other mandatory programs for a total of $2.16 Trillion.
    (source: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/pdf/summary.pdf)

    Take the other 44% ($1.7 Trillion) and cut it by 25% like they are doing in the U.K. and you get $425 billion to begin paying down our debt. Heck take 15% and you still get $255 billion. That is not an insignificant number.
    Last edited by solarus; 10/01/2010 at 03:49 PM.
  18. #478  
    Except that achieves nothing if you're still hemorrhaging money through inefficiencies in the mandatory programs as well as through non-budget spending. You're trying to bail out a sinking boat with a coffee mug to keep it from sinking instead of patching the hole first.

    Diverting money from discretionary spending to reduce the debt is going to be a requirement but trying to do it before you actually slow or stop the accumulation of the debt is pointless.
  19. #479  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    admit it. you know you wish you'd googled that first!
    LMAO... You are wrong and you know it. They ARE tax cuts and they cannot be SPUN! If you want the actual tax code itself...google it. I have more than enough proved that the tax breaks do exist.

    Meanwhile, I will enjoy this...



    Obama is swimming in your tears!

    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
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    #480  
    Wow! There he is actually doing something!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

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