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  1. #341  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Yes....children were refused coverage because obama and the democrats put forth a bill that was designed to fail. Congrats! They have started to accomplish their real goal....push insurance companies out and then they will say the only option is for the government to run it. This is what you wanted davidra, the downfall of the insurance companies. I guess YOU are high-fiving with your liberal buddies, right?

    I believe the insurance companies will come back and allow children to be covered under parent plans, but not individually. And yes, it is because they simply can't take in less than they pay out. The government can do this, take in less than they pay (they'll just borrow more money! no problem), but corporations can't....or they close the doors to their business. Anyway, premiums will be increased in order to accomplish the reinstatement of children coverage.
    You already know this, but in fact I am 100% totally supportive of insurance companies. I'm also 100% supportive of everyone who is a citizen of the Unites States having access to reasonable care that won't bankrupt them. Since it appears the insurance companies are unable to provide that, then someone else should.
  2. #342  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    And were you able to convince your son to get health coverage? I applaud you for having that talk. I had the same talk with my 2 step-sons right out of college and they have maintained their health coverages. They don't like it, but they also don't believe it is anyone else's reponsibility other than theirs. And remember, your son doesn't have to get a "cadillac" plan, just have him get a high deductible plan that protects him from a major bill and keeps his premium down as low as possible. Of course, this isn't a perfect world where everyone does the responsible thing so some people simply don't want to pay for it, just like the 2 employees my client had to deal with last week. They have refused coverage twice now, and all because of about $56 per month. I simply don't believe that is the job of the federal government to mandate it, nor do I believe it is Constitutional. Now....can the state's do it? I feel they can and that is where I think healthcare reform should have started.
    Ya but one of the MANY problems with NOT haveing mandated, provided, available, or whatever other semantical word you choose, is that not everyone HAS the access to GET coverage. So again, for the worker that makes barely minimum wage, and works for a small company that now does not have to offer any coverage, I go back to my hit and run scenario.

    Also, this nonsence about not mandating. We are mandated to buy car insurance we are mandated to by homeowner insurance, we are mandated to pay for a military, whether we support the stupid wars or not, we are mandated to educate our children. Why should making sure we have some form of reasonable, accessible health insurance be any different.
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    #343  
    Quote Originally Posted by dianehelen View Post
    Ya but one of the MANY problems with NOT haveing mandated, provided, available, or whatever other semantical word you choose, is that not everyone HAS the access to GET coverage. So again, for the worker that makes barely minimum wage, and works for a small company that now does not have to offer any coverage, I go back to my hit and run scenario.

    Also, this nonsence about not mandating. We are mandated to buy car insurance we are mandated to by homeowner insurance, we are mandated to pay for a military, whether we support the stupid wars or not, we are mandated to educate our children. Why should making sure we have some form of reasonable, accessible health insurance be any different.
    Actually, you don't have to pay auto insurance or homeowner insurance. You can opt to pay rent and take public transportation or ride a bike.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. #344  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Actually, you don't have to pay auto insurance or homeowner insurance. You can opt to pay rent and take public transportation or ride a bike.
    So what's the alternative you can opt for in place of living?
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    #345  
    Quote Originally Posted by dianehelen View Post
    So again, for the worker that makes barely minimum wage, and works for a small company that now does not have to offer any coverage, I go back to my hit and run scenario.
    Oh and don't forget the worker who no longer has work because the company folded because it couldn't afford the mandatory health insurance for its employees. We gotta cover them too you know. It's not their fault that the government forced their evil employers out of business between health care and taxation because they made more than 250k a year. Don't ya just hate them?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. #346  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Oh and don't forget the worker who no longer has work because the company folded because it couldn't afford the mandatory health insurance for its employees. We gotta cover them too you know. It's not their fault that the government forced their evil employers out of business between health care and taxation because they made more than 250k a year. Don't ya just hate them?
    Yeah...another great argument for removing the employee-sponsored health care business and going to a single payor system. You must be starting to see things my way. Let's help corporations by removing the requirement to provide for their employees. Great idea.
  7. #347  
    Quote Originally Posted by dianehelen View Post
    Ya but one of the MANY problems with NOT haveing mandated, provided, available, or whatever other semantical word you choose, is that not everyone HAS the access to GET coverage. So again, for the worker that makes barely minimum wage, and works for a small company that now does not have to offer any coverage, I go back to my hit and run scenario.
    Ok....you lost me now....basically you're saying that people are too lazy to look for health insurance and therefore they should just be handed it. Good grief....no offense here....but have your 30 year old son get off his , make a phone call to a local insurance agent, and ask for a quote. It really isn't difficult, but yes, it does take someone taking a bit of initiative. As I said, if the goal is to protect against the catastrophic illness or accident, he can get an inexpensive plan that at least will protect against a major loss. You said he was healthy and doesn't go to the doctor, so why would he need a plan that offered co-pays for doctor visits or prescriptions? Just tell him to go get a quote for a HSA plan with deductibles in the $2500 to $5000 range.

    Quote Originally Posted by dianehelen View Post
    Also, this nonsence about not mandating. We are mandated to buy car insurance we are mandated to by homeowner insurance, we are mandated to pay for a military, whether we support the stupid wars or not, we are mandated to educate our children. Why should making sure we have some form of reasonable, accessible health insurance be any different.
    I think Micael covered this....you don't have to have car insurance if you don't have a car. Of course, even people who do drive seem to drive around without it. I don't have homeowner's insurance....I live in a condo. Oh sure, my HOA has coverage that I pay for in my monthly regime, but I personally don't have such coverage. I opt for content insurance, but it is MY decision and I'm not being mandated to have it. If you read The Constitution, you'll find that the government is in charge of protecting it's citizens with a military. Education mandate? You do have choices for public, private, or home schooling and I believe education is run by state and local governments.
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  8. #348  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    You already know this, but in fact I am 100% totally supportive of insurance companies. I'm also 100% supportive of everyone who is a citizen of the Unites States having access to reasonable care that won't bankrupt them. Since it appears the insurance companies are unable to provide that, then someone else should.
    No....I didn't know that you were 100% supportive of insurance companies. How are you supportive of them? I have totally missed this support of insurance companies from you. A better bill could have likely made it so they could provide "reasonable" coverage. But instead, they crafted a bill (read only after it was voted on) that was designed so that it would work for insurance companies.

    By the way....for you folks who have constantly complained about HSA plans, and how bad they are, you are aware that the obama plan PCIP coverage is an HSA plan? I will give them credit there for that (Davidra, see, giving credit to them). They actually are giving folks a plan that will protect against the catastrophic.....imagine that....using the HSA plan. Go figure, huh?
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  9. #349  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    ...I think Micael covered this....you don't have to have car insurance if you don't have a car....
    How do I go through life without a body?
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  10. #350  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I think you know I'm correct on this 6 month wait with no health coverage before being eligible for the PCIP program, but you don't want to admit it. So, just forget it. To be eligible you have to have been declined (yes, by insurance company XYZ) for health coverage or had a policy issued with a pre-existing condition. Once you have met either of those conditions (one OR the other) then you can apply after you have had no coverage for 6 months. I think you are arguing about that because you to likely find that unbelievable....but....it is true. Read those links I posted earlier.
    I did read them and pointed out to you several times how you were reading it wrong but you thought I had doctored the text. You're right, there is no further need in debating that if you can not stay within some sort of realm of reality.

    I also don't get why you think the possible 6 month wait is so bad but the insurance companies ability to just deny services or just drop you outright is perfectly fine....

    I'll tell you this....I want to get the correct info out on obama care. I received an email from a guy in a business club I'm in regarding the reporting of EE premiums (those paid by the ER) on their W-2's in 2011. His email was talking about this being added to the EE's gross income, and that is simply false. So, I announced at this club last Wed that it simply wasn't true. Yes, you (ER) will have to report it on the W-2, but at this time it is not going to be taxed. I think it is being required to help determine who has health coverage in 2014 when coverage is required or you get penalized. The info was wrong and just had to stop the bad info. Secondly, my wife forwards me an email about Muslims being able to opt out of the obama health plan requirement and avoid the penalty. I thought well that is crazy, how many people will just claim to change to Islam on 12/31/13? Well, if you read things a bit closer, you can only do this if, obviously, it is somehow against your religion AND you have to have also passed on Social Security benefits. If you can show you have waived your SS benefits, then your request to be waived from mandated coverage will be considered. It isn't as simple as just saying, "I'm a Muslim and therefore I don't have to enroll for health coverage". There are also other religions this can apply to.
    OK, that was quite the tangent... If someone wants to opt out because they think that Santa Claus, or some other form of invisible sky daddy, will magically fix their burst appendix, that is fine with me...
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    #351  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    So what's the alternative you can opt for in place of living?
    Is this a trick question? ltm ltm
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    #352  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    How do I go through life without a body?
    If you're saying you can't go through life without employer bought health insurance, you're wrong. I did it for many years.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. #353  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Actually, you don't have to pay auto insurance or homeowner insurance. You can opt to pay rent and take public transportation or ride a bike.
    you can't opt to have the paramedic or firefighter leave you in the crumbled automobile. They are gonna take you out and bring you to the hospital.
    your tax dollars go to roads... Even if you don't drive...
  14. #354  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    How do I go through life without a body?
    How do you go through life without shelter? How do you go through life without food? As I said in an earlier post, how about everyone turn their entire paycheck (for some successful people, that isn't such a far stretch) over to the government....let them provide shelter for everyone, food for everyone, healthcare for everyone....and then redistribute the rest out to everyone in equal amounts. That is the goal, right? For everyone to be equal? I saw a professor on a show last night that said we have a right in this country to shelter, food, and healthcare. A right? What does that even mean....a right to these things? I give money to the local Meals on Wheels....why don't we promote these types of charitable organizations with private money? Why do you liberals believe that only the government can provide for us. Dang....things are getting scary....the government is becoming our daddy (daddy obama?).
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    #355  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    you can't opt to have the paramedic or firefighter leave you in the crumbled automobile. They are gonna take you out and bring you to the hospital.
    your tax dollars go to roads... Even if you don't drive...
    I was simply responding to an assertion that auto insurance and home insurance was mandated - it's not in cases where people opt not to drive or who rent. I didn't say that they weren't a good idea, if you have a car or a home, obviously it's required in those cases.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. #356  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    you can't opt to have the paramedic or firefighter leave you in the crumbled automobile. They are gonna take you out and bring you to the hospital.
    your tax dollars go to roads... Even if you don't drive...
    Except for the rare exception....everyone benefits from roads. Even if you don't drive....goods get delivered by roads....only shop by the internet?....well, the products have to get to you somehow, right? My guess is they would get to you via road. You might ride your bike on a road. I have no problem with my taxes going to roads that everyone uses (obviously, private roads are a different matter). I believe the power to build roads is granted in the Constitution as well...."to establish Post Offices and post roads". Had to give those riders and horses carrying mail a clear path back then.
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  17. #357  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    I also don't get why you think the possible 6 month wait is so bad but the insurance companies ability to just deny services or just drop you outright is perfectly fine....
    Well it's quite simple really, it's because health insurance is a "personal responsibility." And that responsibility is NOT to develop a major illness until you are able to reach Medicare eligibility age at which point the private health insurance industry doesn't have to care about you or spend all the pooled money on you that has built up over your life time of paying into their system and can instead just dump you on the government system. But if you develop a major illness before then, you're not being "responsible".
  18. #358  
    Yaaaaaaaaaa getting health insurance on your own. now THATS an easy thing to do..

    Have you ever tried? And ADD to that IF you have ANY pre existing condition? FUGGETABOUTIT!
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  19. #359  
    Quote Originally Posted by dianehelen View Post
    Yaaaaaaaaaa getting health insurance on your own. now THATS an easy thing to do..

    Have you ever tried? And ADD to that IF you have ANY pre existing condition? FUGGETABOUTIT!
    Umm...yes, I deal with this on a regular basis. I apparently misunderstood....I thought you had said your son was healthy (his reasoning you said for not wanting to be paying for coverage). However, it now seems like he has a pre-ex condition....so....if he has been 6 months without coverage (you said he has no coverage, so he likely will now qualify) he can now apply (online!) under the PCIP program....it doesn't get any easier than that, right? Does your son have the gumption to even do that? Some people just have other more important things to do, right?
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  20. #360  
    i have no insurance now because i dont use it enough to warrant the expense.. and im not going to buy it to help fund the hypochondriacs.. my wife and i pay as we go to our doctor, its amazing how much healthier my wife is since we have no insurance.

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