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  1. #321  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    No....you do realize that they aren't covering children because ***** obama wrote a piece of bill that does the opposite of what he said it would. Think about it....the goal was to lower premiums and make insurance accessible for children (everyone by 2014, but children by now). What has been accomplished whateverator? Premiums have gone up and healthy children don't have access to health care. So....has the bill been successful? I say no....so far....we have a complete failure.
    My problem with all of this is that the GOP considers themselves the "moral" leaders of our country yet they are in the pocket of an industry that has no problem denying children health care. Their answer to all this? REPEAL!!! Go back to canceling coverage for for those who need it. They offer no answers to the problem, just REPEAL!!!

    You can't make some of this stuff up. Take the Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan that was formed under obama care. Sounds good, right? A plan in each state that allows people who can't get coverage to be able to get an affordable health care plan, right? Well.....you have to go 6 months without coverage before you can qualify for it. What does this accomplish? Again, another strike on helping people get coverage. Go check it out: PCIP - Pre-existing Condition Insurance Plan - Home
    "The PCIP program provides a new health coverage option for you if you have been uninsured for at least six months, you have a pre-existing condition or have been denied health coverage because of your health condition"

    You don't have the concept what the word "OR" means, do you?

    How about "open enrollment periods?" You know, the policy that insurance companies have where you have to wait up to 6 months to start a plan...

    There is need for healthcare reform, but a 2500 page bill that doesn't work just doesn't cut it. Why do you think no democrats, other than obama (who simply doesn't understand it to begin with), runs on this amazing bill? Why do they run from it? They run from it because we are just finding out what was hidden in the 2500 pages (Pelosi: "We need to pass it so we can see what is in it" What? What? What?).
    OH NO!!! A politician said something dumb! Well you got me there, you win. As Bush said, "Mission Accomplished....."

    BTW... Health care is a complicated issue so the GOPs talking point about the number of pages is ing stupid...

    Anyway....it's sad that a failed plan is better in some of you folk's minds than a plan that could have accomplished something. To say we are better off now is just plain ridiculous. I think you guys/gals know this, but can't bare to admit it as you still think obama is up on a pedestal.
    LMAO LMAO LMAO A plan that has started 2 days ago and does not fully take effect until 2014 is "failed." If you can predict the future so well, why are you wasting your time on some message board?


    Side Note: I am glad to see that you have resorted to subtly slipping in name calling, "whateverator." I am glad to see that I am getting to you...
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    #322  
    The bottom line in the argument is that Republicans believe, for the most part, that one's own health is one's own responsibility, and the Democrats, for the most part, think that healthcare is a right that should be provided or mandated by the government - two fundamentally incompatible beliefs. The problem with the healthcare argument is that it is fundamental - unless you can convince someone to change their basic assumption (personal responsibility or a right) on the issue then you're never going to change their mind. That is to say the healthcare discussion in the U.S. is an issue that only leads to your "your guys are scumbags" arguments that don't solve anything.

    Instead of arguing whether or not the GOP are in the pocket in the Insurance industry or whether or not the Democrats can put together a bill worth a damn how about the discussion revolves around helping the people that can't take responsibility for themselves - its as good a place to start as any and might actually lead to a solution that benefits the people that need it instead of the lobbyists/industries that support the GOP and Democrats. For example no one can argue that if the parents of a child don't have the decency/or money to provide coverage for their child(ren), the child(ren) should suffer by not having health coverage.
  3. #323  
    Sadly I've actually heard some people argue that that they should.....

    But OCS already exists and the States manage their own branches as they see fit. Some states do well, others not so much. The only change could be the Federal government forcing them all live up to the same standard but that moves further into the "big government" realm similar to the health insurance issue.
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    #324  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Sadly I've actually heard some people argue that that they should.....

    But OCS already exists and the States manage their own branches as they see fit. Some states do well, others not so much. The only change could be the Federal government forcing them all live up to the same standard but that moves further into the "big government" realm similar to the health insurance issue.
    I consider myself a Republican and I'm a huge believer in personal responsibility but in the case of child healthcare coverage then I wouldn't have a problem with the Feds doing the job. The same goes for the poor and mentally unstable. However, some serious work would need to be done to prevent abuse of the system - see Medicare for the perfect example.

    Bottom line is that 40 million people are without health insurance and no-one seems to want to break down who doesn't have coverage because they choose not to and who doesn't have coverage because they can't get it.
  5. #325  
    Quote Originally Posted by solarus View Post
    I consider myself a Republican and I'm a huge believer in personal responsibility but in the case of child healthcare coverage then I wouldn't have a problem with the Feds doing the job. The same goes for the poor and mentally unstable. However, some serious work would need to be done to prevent abuse of the system - see Medicare for the perfect example.

    Bottom line is that 40 million people are without health insurance and no-one seems to want to break down who doesn't have coverage because they choose not to and who doesn't have coverage because they can't get it.
    I think that the percentage of those opting out of coverage out of choice is very small.

    I think your point of view has a lot of merit but sadly, a lot of the conservatives that frequent this board would label you a Marxist/socialist right along with me...
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
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  6. #326  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    To say we are better off now is just plain ridiculous. I think you guys/gals know this, but can't bare to admit it as you still think obama is up on a pedestal.
    The day the changes went into effect I got a call from a friend from a rural area. Her nephew, 21, had gotten his hand into a skilsaw, cut through two bones in his hand. After a day at home with it bandaged, they took him to a private orthopedist. She called me because his insurance had lapsed in August and he had essentially no money since "all he did" was construction. His father is in the military and when I asked about him, she said yes, he has military insurance. I told her to tell the private practice, who had already told him they needed money up front, that he was now eligible to be covered by his father's insurance....as of that morning. He was, had his surgery yesterday and is not facing bankruptcy for a $10,000 procedure. You tell me....is he better off? Or do you care?


    So you tell me...who is "we"? You, with your nice income, expensive phone and taxpayer supported college education (although I am amazed you ended up in insurance and not ag...it suits you better) and plenty of insurance? When is "now"? Try asking the patient above. Try asking the question of 30+million uninsured (around 25 million of whom are working) who will be covered in 2014. You are the one who can't "bare" to admit it: those people will be much better off. As for you, I bet you'll be doing fine as well, hanging with your Tbagging senator and high-fiving when Clemson thrashes Furman.
  7. #327  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    I think that the percentage of those opting out of coverage out of choice is very small.

    I think your point of view has a lot of merit but sadly, a lot of the conservatives that frequent this board would label you a Marxist/socialist right along with me...
    I wss talking to one of my clients on Friday, and 2 employees have opted out of getting health coverage because...are you ready for this?....because they don't want to pay $56.33 per month for single coverage. They said if they get sick they can go to a free clinic and just don't think about anything serious happening to them. These 2 guys are carpenters that actually make pretty decent money. The employer believes they could both pay the $56.33. I wonder how much these 2 spend on cigarretes and booze each month? In many cases, people afford what they want to afford. Again....there is s difference of real world mentality vs what people "think" will happen.
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  8. #328  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    The day the changes went into effect I got a call from a friend from a rural area. Her nephew, 21, had gotten his hand into a skilsaw, cut through two bones in his hand. After a day at home with it bandaged, they took him to a private orthopedist. She called me because his insurance had lapsed in August and he had essentially no money since "all he did" was construction. His father is in the military and when I asked about him, she said yes, he has military insurance. I told her to tell the private practice, who had already told him they needed money up front, that he was now eligible to be covered by his father's insurance....as of that morning. He was, had his surgery yesterday and is not facing bankruptcy for a $10,000 procedure. You tell me....is he better off? Or do you care?


    So you tell me...who is "we"? You, with your nice income, expensive phone and taxpayer supported college education (although I am amazed you ended up in insurance and not ag...it suits you better) and plenty of insurance? When is "now"? Try asking the patient above. Try asking the question of 30+million uninsured (around 25 million of whom are working) who will be covered in 2014. You are the one who can't "bare" to admit it: those people will be much better off. As for you, I bet you'll be doing fine as well, hanging with your Tbagging senator and high-fiving when Clemson thrashes Furman.
    Excellent point about him being in a better situation with being able to get health coverage on his parent's plan....I have recommended that to a few people lately as well. I'm sure there will be many examples of that helping people out and I have no problem with it. But here is a real example of health care reform hurting someone. I was speaking to a friend I swim with yesterday and his wife is a pediatrician and she had a newborn come in late last week and the parents can't get coverage on their newborn. I don't know all the circumstance, I have to assume the parents don't have a group plan, but bottom line is this newborn can't get health coverage now and it is directly related to obama care. For the record, I did not "high-five" with my friend. His wife (the doctor) is really irritated with obama care and is a doctor who actually thinks straight and believes the bill is horrible. So I guess you are high-fiving to hear this (since it is a result of obama care) like you do when FL thrashes App State. By the way, my Tigers don't play Furman, that was the Gamecocks that played Furman last week. You still can't get your facts correct, can you?

    By the way, since you understand that the individual got on insurance with no pre-ex, and got $10k of medical bills paid, and once he has been fully treated he can go off the insurance, you understand why this would increase insurance premiums, correct? And yet Sebellius warned insurance company to not dare raise rates for such a thing. God forbid a company raise what they charge for services when the government tells them to provide more benefits.
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  9. #329  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    "The PCIP program provides a new health coverage option for you if you have been uninsured for at least six months, you have a pre-existing condition or have been denied health coverage because of your health condition"

    You don't have the concept what the word "OR" means, do you?
    Well....here is the wording from the PCIP website: "PCIP provides a new health coverage option for you if you have been uninsured for at least six months, you have a pre-existing condition or have been denied health coverage because of your health condition, and are a U.S. citizen or are residing here legally." Here is the link to this: PCIP - Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan - Customer Service - Frequently asked questions

    Here is another link that describes the same 6 month wait and seems to be missing your "or": LUPUS FOUNDATION OF AMERICA - Georgia Chapter

    And why not have a third link: http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/hivstd/f...P_Guidance.pdf

    My question is do you not understand that the first requirement is "have been uninsureded for at least six months."? If you meet that qualificiation, then you must either have a pre-existing condition OR have been denied health coverage because of your health condition. I like how you added an extra "or" to make it read the way you want it to. I have already had someone try and get coverage who has a pre-existing condition and was turned down because she has coverage and must go 6 months of no coverage first. Interesting story there.....she is from MA where they have the state mandated plan, and though she moved down here, she is still on their plan. Apparently they (MA) haven't discovered this fact yet and so she is staying on until they do notice. Not sure how all that works up there, but she is in a jam and can not get coverage under PCIP. But whateverator, I'll tell her you said the "or" was in the wrong place and to tell them you said she could go on the plan. Thanks for helping us out!

    As for you getting under my skin.....I don't lose sleep from you.....but, you do annoy me when you pass along false information.
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  10. #330  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I wss talking to one of my clients on Friday, and 2 employees have opted out of getting health coverage because...are you ready for this?....because they don't want to pay $56.33 per month for single coverage. They said if they get sick they can go to a free clinic and just don't think about anything serious happening to them. These 2 guys are carpenters that actually make pretty decent money. The employer believes they could both pay the $56.33. I wonder how much these 2 spend on cigarretes and booze each month? In many cases, people afford what they want to afford. Again....there is s difference of real world mentality vs what people "think" will happen.
    So you have met 2 guys that back up your story so it must be true for the entire nation. And, just so you know, free clinics are not exactly "free," they are funded partially by your tax dollars. Moral of this story? You are still paying for the healthcare of those "undesirables" you conservatives talk so much about.
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

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  11. #331  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Well....here is the wording from the PCIP website: "PCIP provides a new health coverage option for you if you have been uninsured for at least six months, you have a pre-existing condition or have been denied health coverage because of your health condition, and are a U.S. citizen or are residing here legally." Here is the link to this: PCIP - Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan - Customer Service - Frequently asked questions

    Here is another link that describes the same 6 month wait and seems to be missing your "or": LUPUS FOUNDATION OF AMERICA - Georgia Chapter

    And why not have a third link: http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/hivstd/f...P_Guidance.pdf
    So now the "official" PCIP website is incorrect but these ones are right? That's weird.... LMAO

    My question is do you not understand that the first requirement is "have been uninsureded for at least six months."? If you meet that qualificiation, then you must either have a pre-existing condition OR have been denied health coverage because of your health condition. I like how you added an extra "or" to make it read the way you want it to. I have already had someone try and get coverage who has a pre-existing condition and was turned down because she has coverage and must go 6 months of no coverage first. Interesting story there.....she is from MA where they have the state mandated plan, and though she moved down here, she is still on their plan. Apparently they (MA) haven't discovered this fact yet and so she is staying on until they do notice. Not sure how all that works up there, but she is in a jam and can not get coverage under PCIP. But whateverator, I'll tell her you said the "or" was in the wrong place and to tell them you said she could go on the plan. Thanks for helping us out!
    LMAO I "added an or?" DO you not have basic reading skills? I copied that from the page you posted, word for word. Go back in this thread and you will see that I am not the only one that pointed out that or. As a matter of fact, I highlited it again for you above. Go ahead and scroll up and see for yourself, I'll wait.........

    .....You back? Now did I do some of my own editing? Nope. Nice try though.

    Now for the 6 month wait, what about open enrollment periods? Is that not a wait? But then again, the conservatives are all for not insuring those with pre-existing conditions so the six month wait, that may only existing in your mind, is better than no coverage at all.

    As for you getting under my skin.....I don't lose sleep from you.....but, you do annoy me when you pass along false information.
    What false information have I passed? You have only been questioning me on the supposed race card that I had supposedly played, which I did not, and pointing out the wording on a page that you, yourself, posted.
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

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  12. #332  
    Ok....whew....will try this one more time and then I give up. But, before I go any further with this will you agree that the PCIP program is only for those who can't get coverage elsewhere? In other words, if you can go out and get a health plan from XYZ Insurance Company, do you agree that you can't get coverage through PCIP? Easy question....it doesn't need analysis....just yes or no do you agree with that statement?
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  13. #333  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    So you have met 2 guys that back up your story so it must be true for the entire nation. And, just so you know, free clinics are not exactly "free," they are funded partially by your tax dollars. Moral of this story? You are still paying for the healthcare of those "undesirables" you conservatives talk so much about.
    Oh....LOL.....I thought this was like a free lunch....oh wait....I've heard there is no such thing as a free lunch. These 2 guys are just an example. To them, it is "free"....don't you get that? To them, why pay $56 per month when it is "free" for them at the clinic? The kicker, these 2 individuals will have to pay approximately $700 per year in penalites to obama if they don't have any health coverage in 2014. So, they are going to be quite annoyed, don't you think? LOL They don't want to pay even less money now to have coverage, but will be forced to pay a penalty that is higher by 2014. Who knows if they will even be working for an employer who is only charging them $56 per month by that time, it will likely be more. I never said it was true for the entire nation....all I can do is give you examples of what I run across in the real world, not your "I think" world.
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  14. #334  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Ok....whew....will try this one more time and then I give up. But, before I go any further with this will you agree that the PCIP program is only for those who can't get coverage elsewhere? In other words, if you can go out and get a health plan from XYZ Insurance Company, do you agree that you can't get coverage through PCIP? Easy question....it doesn't need analysis....just yes or no do you agree with that statement?
    And why would you not be able to get coverage from "XYZ Insurance?" Because they either deny you outright for a pre-existing condition or they just choose to flat out deny you of the coverage that you may need, and drop you, while NOT reimbursing you of what you have already paid. Oh, sorry. I wasn't allowed to analyze your loaded question....

    Keep on supporting the Insurance companies right to STEAL from the common man
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

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  15. #335  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Oh....LOL.....I thought this was like a free lunch....oh wait....I've heard there is no such thing as a free lunch. These 2 guys are just an example. To them, it is "free"....don't you get that? To them, why pay $56 per month when it is "free" for them at the clinic? The kicker, these 2 individuals will have to pay approximately $700 per year in penalites to obama if they don't have any health coverage in 2014. So, they are going to be quite annoyed, don't you think? LOL They don't want to pay even less money now to have coverage, but will be forced to pay a penalty that is higher by 2014. Who knows if they will even be working for an employer who is only charging them $56 per month by that time, it will likely be more. I never said it was true for the entire nation....all I can do is give you examples of what I run across in the real world, not your "I think" world.
    That "free" clinic is being paid for by tax dollars... the same tax dollars that are being taken out of their construction paychecks... and your paycheck.

    I don't get you conservatives. You don't want to pay for the freeloaders healthcare but when they will have to pay $700 into a pool to help cover their medical expenses, they transform into good, hard working Americans. It is not even $700 that they are going to have to pay outright! It will be added to your yearly taxes!
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

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  16. #336  
    ... and to put this in the simplest terms possible, as I had to explain it to my OWN son, who makes 30K a year, and doesnt want to have money taken out of his paycheck for health insurance..

    His arguement, Im young, and healthy, why should I pay??

    My arguement to him and the rest, is the example of what happens if you get hit by a hit and run car, and have to be taken by ambulance to the hospital, where you are treated, and you have NO health insurance?

    WHO is supposed to pick UP that cost? Or, if taking the stand that everone should be responsible for their own health, should you JUST BE LEFT in the street to die?

    A caring, reasonable society SHOULD take care of its citizens.. and that is WHY there should be some kind of general guaranteed care. If not, and the above scenario takes place, as it does over and over and over, who pays? Well DUHHH we ALL DO ANYWAY!
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  17. #337  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I don't know all the circumstance, I have to assume the parents don't have a group plan, but bottom line is this newborn can't get health coverage now and it is directly related to obama care. For the record, I did not "high-five" with my friend. His wife (the doctor) is really irritated with obama care and is a doctor who actually thinks straight and believes the bill is horrible.
    I thought you believed in taking responsibilities for your actions? This child was not refused insurance because of Obama. It was refused care because of the profit motive and quest of insurance companies. They determined that they were not going to write insurance any more for any children. I personally hope when the time comes they are excluded from all exchanges. Obama denied nobody health insurance. This was a strictly business decision, I assume, that has nobody's best interest in mind except the bottom line of the insurance company. You cherish that attitude; I think it's horrendous.
  18. #338  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    And why would you not be able to get coverage from "XYZ Insurance?" Because they either deny you outright for a pre-existing condition or they just choose to flat out deny you of the coverage that you may need, and drop you, while NOT reimbursing you of what you have already paid. Oh, sorry. I wasn't allowed to analyze your loaded question....

    Keep on supporting the Insurance companies right to STEAL from the common man
    I think you know I'm correct on this 6 month wait with no health coverage before being eligible for the PCIP program, but you don't want to admit it. So, just forget it. To be eligible you have to have been declined (yes, by insurance company XYZ) for health coverage or had a policy issued with a pre-existing condition. Once you have met either of those conditions (one OR the other) then you can apply after you have had no coverage for 6 months. I think you are arguing about that because you to likely find that unbelievable....but....it is true. Read those links I posted earlier.

    I'll tell you this....I want to get the correct info out on obama care. I received an email from a guy in a business club I'm in regarding the reporting of EE premiums (those paid by the ER) on their W-2's in 2011. His email was talking about this being added to the EE's gross income, and that is simply false. So, I announced at this club last Wed that it simply wasn't true. Yes, you (ER) will have to report it on the W-2, but at this time it is not going to be taxed. I think it is being required to help determine who has health coverage in 2014 when coverage is required or you get penalized. The info was wrong and just had to stop the bad info. Secondly, my wife forwards me an email about Muslims being able to opt out of the obama health plan requirement and avoid the penalty. I thought well that is crazy, how many people will just claim to change to Islam on 12/31/13? Well, if you read things a bit closer, you can only do this if, obviously, it is somehow against your religion AND you have to have also passed on Social Security benefits. If you can show you have waived your SS benefits, then your request to be waived from mandated coverage will be considered. It isn't as simple as just saying, "I'm a Muslim and therefore I don't have to enroll for health coverage". There are also other religions this can apply to.
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  19. #339  
    Quote Originally Posted by dianehelen View Post
    ... and to put this in the simplest terms possible, as I had to explain it to my OWN son, who makes 30K a year, and doesnt want to have money taken out of his paycheck for health insurance..

    His arguement, Im young, and healthy, why should I pay??

    My arguement to him and the rest, is the example of what happens if you get hit by a hit and run car, and have to be taken by ambulance to the hospital, where you are treated, and you have NO health insurance?

    WHO is supposed to pick UP that cost? Or, if taking the stand that everone should be responsible for their own health, should you JUST BE LEFT in the street to die?

    A caring, reasonable society SHOULD take care of its citizens.. and that is WHY there should be some kind of general guaranteed care. If not, and the above scenario takes place, as it does over and over and over, who pays? Well DUHHH we ALL DO ANYWAY!
    And were you able to convince your son to get health coverage? I applaud you for having that talk. I had the same talk with my 2 step-sons right out of college and they have maintained their health coverages. They don't like it, but they also don't believe it is anyone else's reponsibility other than theirs. And remember, your son doesn't have to get a "cadillac" plan, just have him get a high deductible plan that protects him from a major bill and keeps his premium down as low as possible. Of course, this isn't a perfect world where everyone does the responsible thing so some people simply don't want to pay for it, just like the 2 employees my client had to deal with last week. They have refused coverage twice now, and all because of about $56 per month. I simply don't believe that is the job of the federal government to mandate it, nor do I believe it is Constitutional. Now....can the state's do it? I feel they can and that is where I think healthcare reform should have started.
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  20. #340  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I thought you believed in taking responsibilities for your actions? This child was not refused insurance because of Obama. It was refused care because of the profit motive and quest of insurance companies. They determined that they were not going to write insurance any more for any children. I personally hope when the time comes they are excluded from all exchanges. Obama denied nobody health insurance. This was a strictly business decision, I assume, that has nobody's best interest in mind except the bottom line of the insurance company. You cherish that attitude; I think it's horrendous.
    Yes....children were refused coverage because obama and the democrats put forth a bill that was designed to fail. Congrats! They have started to accomplish their real goal....push insurance companies out and then they will say the only option is for the government to run it. This is what you wanted davidra, the downfall of the insurance companies. I guess YOU are high-fiving with your liberal buddies, right?

    I believe the insurance companies will come back and allow children to be covered under parent plans, but not individually. And yes, it is because they simply can't take in less than they pay out. The government can do this, take in less than they pay (they'll just borrow more money! no problem), but corporations can't....or they close the doors to their business. Anyway, premiums will be increased in order to accomplish the reinstatement of children coverage.
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