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  1. #221  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    You pull accusations out of the air like most debaters who care little about actually arguing facts. How can you water down what hasn't been read or understood?
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    lol! love the image! can I use it?

    And yes, the dems conjured up "Death Panels". In fact, it was a great misdirection on the part of the Dems. I'll give them that.
    And you accused me of pulling accusations out of the air.....
  2. #222  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    lol! love the image! can I use it?

    And yes, the dems conjured up "Death Panels". In fact, it was a great misdirection on the part of the Dems. I'll give them that.
    Wait, you're saying that the Democrats invented the idea that Republicans were pushing the idea of "Death Panels"? You can't be serious.

    Sorry, I know it's embarrassing that even some influential and powerful Republicans spewed out this completely ludicrous and sickening idea, but there ain't any putting of that genie back in the bottle at this point. Yeah, pretty shameless and embarrassing. Sorry.
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    #223  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    And you accused me of pulling accusations out of the air.....
    Yep. Hard to believe, I know.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. #224  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    Wait, you're saying that the Democrats invented the idea that Republicans were pushing the idea of "Death Panels"? You can't be serious.
    It's OK. He loses track every now and then.
  5. #225  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    lol! love the image! can I use it?
    It is public domain so use it at will!!!

    And yes, the dems conjured up "Death Panels". In fact, it was a great misdirection on the part of the Dems. I'll give them that.
    I am gonna need some citation of that....
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  6. #226  
    "Advanced even this week by Republican stalwarts including the party’s last vice-presidential nominee, Sarah Palin, and Charles E. Grassley, the veteran Iowa senator, the nature of the assertion nonetheless seemed reminiscent of the modern-day viral Internet campaigns that dogged Mr. Obama last year, falsely calling him a Muslim and questioning his nationality . . . "

    Fish in a barrel, thanks to teh Google.

    Mind you, Grassley is considered a health policy guru in the GOP.

    Death Panels, signing TARP into law, raising taxes on the middle class, being a Muslim, not being a citizen, what's this Obama guy gonna do next?
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    #227  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    Wait, you're saying that the Democrats invented the idea that Republicans were pushing the idea of "Death Panels"? You can't be serious.
    Please don't put words in my mouth. Conjured up as in used it as a wedge issue against the Reps. I didn't say invented. But now that you mention it, there was talk early on about a panel that would be made up of 'elites' appointed by barack hussein (without senate confirmation) that would review and decide which procedures would be allowed or not for coverage, based on analysis of compiled data and weighing the effectiveness of requested drugs and treatments. That removes the decision away from the individual and their doctor, and certainly some lives will be lost based on their decisions. That was an invention of the left. Some people call that a "death panel". The point is that the decision making is removed from the individual - for the greater good of the whole population of course. Same sort of 'medical' decisions certain countries made in the first half of the last century..... for the good of the whole....
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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    #228  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    "Advanced even this week by Republican stalwarts including the party’s last vice-presidential nominee, Sarah Palin, and Charles E. Grassley, the veteran Iowa senator, the nature of the assertion nonetheless seemed reminiscent of the modern-day viral Internet campaigns that dogged Mr. Obama last year, falsely calling him a Muslim and questioning his nationality . . . "

    Fish in a barrel, thanks to teh Google.

    Mind you, Grassley is considered a health policy guru in the GOP.

    Death Panels, signing TARP into law, raising taxes on the middle class, being a Muslim, not being a citizen, what's this Obama guy gonna do next?
    "seemed reminiscent" in some talking head's head is not the same thing as Palin or Grassley actually "falsely calling him a Muslim and questioning his nationality". Such spin!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9. #229  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    .... being a Muslim, not being a citizen, what's this Obama guy gonna do next?
    Obama sure is bad at being a fundamentalist Muslim....





    Islam: drinking and smoking, qur an allah, day of judgement
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  10. #230  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Please don't put words in my mouth. Conjured up as in used it as a wedge issue against the Reps. I didn't say invented. But now that you mention it, there was talk early on about a panel that would be made up of 'elites' appointed by barack hussein (without senate confirmation) that would review and decide which procedures would be allowed or not for coverage, based on analysis of compiled data and weighing the effectiveness of requested drugs and treatments. That removes the decision away from the individual and their doctor, and certainly some lives will be lost based on their decisions. That was an invention of the left. Some people call that a "death panel". The point is that the decision making is removed from the individual - for the greater good of the whole population of course. Same sort of 'medical' decisions certain countries made in the first half of the last century..... for the good of the whole....
    LOL. That is the weakest post I have ever seen you make. What world are you living in today? "Some people called it a death panel"??? Gee....wonder who those people are. And please, by all means, show me where any democrat proposed a "panel of elites"? If you mean the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality might suggest that treatments not shown to be effective might not be covered, welcome to the private insurance companies, who already determine what they will and won't cover. I'm SURE you know that, too. Really. Blaming "death panels" on the dems is a misdirection without equal.
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    #231  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    LOL. That is the weakest post I have ever seen you make. What world are you living in today? "Some people called it a death panel"??? Gee....wonder who those people are. And please, by all means, show me where any democrat proposed a "panel of elites"? If you mean the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality might suggest that treatments not shown to be effective might not be covered, welcome to the private insurance companies, who already determine what they will and won't cover. I'm SURE you know that, too. Really. Blaming "death panels" on the dems is a misdirection without equal.
    Hey David! I knew you wouldn't be far behind if I stirred things up around healthcare! Good to see you!

    But it's not the same, and you know it. Insurance companies have structured appeal and medical review procedures for individual cases. You think that at the national level, that's gonna happen?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  12. #232  
    This is sounding less like an attempt to actually prove a point and more like he's just attempting to troll. I guess the sig he's using is meant to be an ironic warning or disclaimer to other posters about reading his posts.
  13. #233  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Hey David! I knew you wouldn't be far behind if I stirred things up around healthcare! Good to see you!

    But it's not the same, and you know it. Insurance companies have structured appeal and medical review procedures for individual cases. You think that at the national level, that's gonna happen?
    Huh? Let's see. Did you somehow forget that the health reform act doesn't include a public option? Private insurers will still be providing the majority of insurance. As far as I know, there's nothing in the health care act that will not allow patients to appeal just as they always have. And did you also forget that there is a Medicare appeals process?
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    #234  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    This is sounding less like an attempt to actually prove a point and more like he's just attempting to troll. I guess the sig he's using is meant to be an ironic warning or disclaimer to other posters about reading his posts.
    If you call pointing out that the dems are going to lose huge come Nov 2nd a troll, I'm ok with that too.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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    #235  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Huh? Let's see. Did you somehow forget that the health reform act doesn't include a public option? Private insurers will still be providing the majority of insurance. As far as I know, there's nothing in the health care act that will not allow patients to appeal just as they always have. And did you also forget that there is a Medicare appeals process?
    My point was where the term 'death panels' came up and how it was used by both sides. This was before the bill was signed. I'm not rehashing, though I can see how you could think that I was by my language.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. #236  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    This is sounding less like an attempt to actually prove a point and more like he's just attempting to troll. I guess the sig he's using is meant to be an ironic warning or disclaimer to other posters about reading his posts.
    Are you referring to Micael? I'd be careful about that. He has powerful friends.
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    #237  
    But back to the thread's topic:

    GOP 'Pledge' vows cuts, repeal of health care law
    By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, Associated Press Writer Julie Hirschfeld Davis, Associated Press Writer
    37 mins ago

    STERLING, Va. Pushing toward big gains on Nov. 2, House Republicans promised to end a slew of Democratic policies and restore Americans' trust in government as they rolled out a campaign manifesto designed to show they're listening to an angry public and are focused on creating jobs.

    "The land of opportunity has become the land of shrinking prosperity ... Our government has failed us," Rep. Kevin McCarthy of California declared. "We will take back our country. We will restore for a better future. This is our pledge to you."

    At a hardware store in suburban Washington, senior House Republicans in shirt sleeves showed off the 21-page document they say would guide them should they gain a majority of seats in the midterm balloting five weeks away.

    The "Pledge to America" was filled with familiar proposals to slash taxes and spending and cut down on government regulation, as well as repeal President Barack Obama's health care law and end his stimulus program. In a show of unity, Senate Republicans and Haley Barbour, chairman of the Republican Governors Association, issued strong statements of support.

    The unveiling capped a private debate among Republicans that had pitted those who favored making an agenda public against others who argued it would merely open the party's candidates to criticism in a campaign that has been tilting their way.

    Republicans have sought to turn the midterm elections into a referendum on the policies of President Barack Obama and the Democratic-controlled Congress. Democrats, in turn, want it to become a choice between two alternatives what they describe as their own efforts to fix the economy, as opposed to what they criticize as Bush-era policies that led to a severe recession.

    For their part, Democrats dismissed the GOP plan as recycled ideas that would further exacerbate the nation's problems.

    "Republicans want to return to the same failed economic policies that hurt millions of Americans and threatened our economy," said Nadeam Elshami, a spokesman for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.

    With polls showing voters disenchanted with Obama, worried about the economy and mad at elected officials, the agenda also vows to change the way Congress works requiring every bill to cite its constitutional authority, for example, and to be made public for three days before a vote.

    "Putting spending, putting the policy of economic growth in place and cleaning up the way Congress works is not only a stark contrast to this president and this Congress," said Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis. "It's a contrast to the way we conducted ourselves a decade ago. We spent too much money. We lost our way."

    The plan steers clear of specifics on important issues, such as how it will "put government on a path to a balanced budget." It omits altogether the question of how to address looming shortfalls in Social Security and Medicare, which account for a huge portion of the nation's soaring deficit, instead including a vague promise: "We will make the decisions that are necessary to protect our entitlement programs."

    Republicans are favored to add substantially to their ranks on Nov. 2, perhaps enough to seize control of the House.

    Their new agenda is rife with the kind of grass-roots rhetoric that could appeal both to tea party activists and to independent voters the GOP is courting in its quest for control.

    "Regarding the policies of the current government, the governed do not consent," the pledge says. "An arrogant and out-of-touch government of self-appointed elites makes decisions, issues mandates and enacts laws without accepting or requesting the input of the many."

    Polls show large majorities are fed up with Congress and both parties and show Republicans have a chance to earn the public's trust on key issues.

    The latest Associated Press-GfK poll found nearly three-quarters disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job, with 68 percent disapproving of Republicans compared with 60 percent disapproving of Democrats.

    Rep. Pete Sessions of Texas, the head of Republicans' House campaign committee, said the agenda was drafted to answer the public's skepticism about government and give them a "deliverable."

    "A number of people are very cynical about the reliability and the sincerity of either party," Sessions said. "We've put things on a sheet of paper."

    ______________

    AP Deputy Polling Director Jennifer Agiesta contributed to this report
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  18. #238  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    If you call pointing out that the dems are going to lose huge come Nov 2nd a troll, I'm ok with that too.
    Not if you keep getting candidates like this:



    I guess she is worried about raising money because her rent is due....





    .
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  19. #239  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    My point was where the term 'death panels' came up and how it was used by both sides. This was before the bill was signed. I'm not rehashing, though I can see how you could think that I was by my language.

    But you said this:
    But it's not the same, and you know it. Insurance companies have structured appeal and medical review procedures for individual cases. You think that at the national level, that's gonna happen?
    With the implication that if things were "nationalized" patients wouldn't be able to appeal. I was just pointing out that the appeal process wouldn't change at all from what we have now, including a "public option" (Medicare) appeal process that has been in place for many years.
  20. #240  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    If you call pointing out that the dems are going to lose huge come Nov 2nd a troll, I'm ok with that too.
    No, I'm not. I'm pointing at all the other things.

    That one I've pointed out as well and is mainly because of the frenzy people have been worked into in general largely because of the attempts and success of Repubs to cause an even larger partisan divide.

    There are two possible outcomes, either independent voters follow the frenzy and a lot of Dems see themselves ousted or the independent voters go to the polls with a clear head and the Repubs are in trouble. Personally, I have little faith in the general population's ability to separate emotion from their analysis so I'm expecting Repub's to end up with major gains. Who knows though, maybe they will and the Repub's will finally be shown that their divide strategy was harmful after all.

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