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  1. #181  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    By the way....I wanted to reach into my TV the other day at obama's Town Hall and shake him because I am sick of this lie he keeps saying. He said once again that one of his great achievements is how insurance companies can no longer exclude pre-existing conditions on children. This would be true except for one important point.....insurance companies are stopping the issuance of policies on children. That's right, in SC BC/BS on Monday put a stop on writing policies on children (all children) until they can determine if it is feasible to follow the new directive. Other companies have said they will not write stand alone policies on children, but would only write a policy if the parent also applies. So....who does this help? No one. The healthy children are now penalized and rates from the companies that decide to still write policies on children will have to be raised thus likely pricing even MORE people out of this market. Obama is an *****. Until he gets people around him that have legitimate business experience, this stupidity will continue.
    Yep. Very persuasive. You just made the point that you personally are more concerned about profits made by insurance companies than you are the health of children. Really....you should be so proud.
  2. rjwerth's Avatar
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    #182  
    Please people, please...no more heath insurance threads! Mods: can we get one of those goofy emoticon smiles beating a dead horse??
  3. #183  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Yep. Very persuasive. You just made the point that you personally are more concerned about profits made by insurance companies than you are the health of children. Really....you should be so proud.
    Quite the contrary.....I made the point that the ***** obama and his band of goofy merrymen accomplished nothing. I know you won't admit it, but they did not achieve what they are saying they achieved. Really davidra, you have to get your head out of the sand...come on man....pull that head out.
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  4. #184  
    Quote Originally Posted by rjwerth View Post
    Please people, please...no more heath insurance threads! Mods: can we get one of those goofy emoticon smiles beating a dead horse??
    Isn't this what you are looking for? Similar to beating a dead horse, right?
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  5. #185  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    And you've just made the point of why he shouldn't have tried to compromise with the other side of the aisle for an entire year and instead just driven for a single payer system, especially after the first several months of the other side simply trying to deride him and slap away any attempt he tried to make to reach across to them. Mandatory types of insurance (those that you pretty much need to be able to afford services) shouldn't be left in the hands of the private sector. They should be handled by the government because the government doesn't need to squeeze out extra profits for shareholders. Auto insurance is another one that really shouldn't be handled by private companies. I'm not saying that the federal government needs to handle them but at least the State governments should, especially for auto insurance.
    It's just a fundamental difference in what we believe our country is about. Some believe the government should provide everything....and others believe the less government the better. How about life insurance? Should the government handle that? How about disability insurance? Long term care insurance? How about home owners insurance? Good grief....you folks need to form a country that just collects your whole pay check and then hands out a set amount after they provide our housing, food, car, and insurance. You know, just enough so we can maybe go to McDonalds for apple slices or buy a video game and go to a movie. We can all live in the same size house and drive the same smart car. Well, maybe we can have a choice between a smart car and a battery car. Holy Toledo.
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    "It's good to be the King" - Mel Brooks, History of the World, Part 1

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  6. #186  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    It's just a fundamental difference in what we believe our country is about. Some believe the government should provide everything....and others believe the less government the better. How about life insurance? Should the government handle that? How about disability insurance? Long term care insurance? How about home owners insurance?
    Quite simply, I believe children should not die because insurance companies want to make profits. You don't. I'm not talking about life insurance, or car insurance, or home owners insurance. Really don't care about those.

    And don't bother to say nobody dies because of lack of insurance in this country. That's a lie.
  7. #187  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    It's just a fundamental difference in what we believe our country is about. Some believe the government should provide everything....and others believe the less government the better. How about life insurance? Should the government handle that? How about disability insurance? Long term care insurance? How about home owners insurance? Good grief....you folks need to form a country that just collects your whole pay check and then hands out a set amount after they provide our housing, food, car, and insurance. You know, just enough so we can maybe go to McDonalds for apple slices or buy a video game and go to a movie. We can all live in the same size house and drive the same smart car. Well, maybe we can have a choice between a smart car and a battery car. Holy Toledo.
    It's funny that you say the the left wants us to be "drones" and live in a cookie cutter society when if you really look at reality, it is quite the opposite. If you you look at those in the democratic party, they have similar but varying agendas. If you look at republicans, you see all white faces, all in of their agendas are in lockstep, and if they show any kind of "free thinking," they seem to be exiled from the party. Hence the term "RINO." The right longs for some sort of suburban utopia, where nobody pays taxes and everything just magically works itself out. Metropolitan cities, like here in Los Angeles, are where you see the most dems. Here, and other cities like New York, you see a huge variaty of cultures and interests. You see more reps in rural, cookie cutter, track homes. Track homes where you have to get appoval from the HOA what color you are allowed to paint the house you pay for. Now tell me again, who is more diverse?
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  8. #188  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Wow....what a great post. Can't add much more to that, good job.
    I added something above.
  9. #189  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    And you've just made the point of why he shouldn't have tried to compromise with the other side of the aisle for an entire year and instead just driven for a single payer system, especially after the first several months of the other side simply trying to deride him and slap away any attempt he tried to make to reach across to them.
    Wait! What you're suggesting is madness! Sure, it's what's done in virtually every other comparable industrialized democracy on Earth, but remember that America is exceptional--this economic claptrap cannot possibly apply to us! As we all know, premiums were not increasing exponentially until big government stepped in! Everything was in perfect working order, and businesses and individuals were handling everything perfectly well on their own!
  10. #190  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    It's funny that you say the the left wants us to be "drones" and live in a cookie cutter society when if you really look at reality, it is quite the opposite. If you you look at those in the democratic party, they have similar but varying agendas. If you look at republicans, you see all white faces, all in of their agendas are in lockstep, and if they show any kind of "free thinking," they seem to be exiled from the party. Hence the term "RINO." The right longs for some sort of suburban utopia, where nobody pays taxes and everything just magically works itself out. Metropolitan cities, like here in Los Angeles, are where you see the most dems. Here, and other cities like New York, you see a huge variaty of cultures and interests. You see more reps in rural, cookie cutter, track homes. Track homes where you have to get appoval from the HOA what color you are allowed to paint the house you pay for. Now tell me again, who is more diverse?
    I disagree with you. I am a conservative (no really, I am) and I don't agree with everything the Republicans have done or necessarily push. Many Republicans had different opinions on what Bush did, especially towards the latter part of his 2nd term. Funny....when Republicans agree on everything we are the party of exclusion and when we disagree we are falling apart. I would like to see the studies that show the majority of Republicans live in "cookie cutter, track homes". Not doubting you, but just would like to see the study that shows this. I won't even get into your comments about HOA's....good grief....you had to really think hard to come up with that one, huh? LOL

    It tends to be the left that feels that children shouldn't lose games (everyone a winner right? God forbid they learn a lesson that not everyone wins all the time), or that, as the ***** obama put it, "we need to spread the wealth around". And why would you spread this wealth around, so that everyone can be different, or everyone can be the same? Obama would like nothing more than have everyone in the same position....nice and "fair"....the world should be "fair", right? I'm not buying your BS today, sorry.

    By the way....I'll let Tim Scott (R), who will hopefully be elected to the House from my district in SC, know that he needs to paint his face white....you see....he is a very impressive black man that has conservative views. And yes, I'll be voting for him What, a white conservative Southerner voting for a black man? What the heck is going on here? What is going on is this man understands what this country is all about and I am voting for him because of his ideas, not the color of his skin.
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  11. #191  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    By the way....I'll let Tim Scott (R), who will hopefully be elected to the House from my district in SC, know that he needs to paint his face white....you see....he is a very impressive black man that has conservative views. And yes, I'll be voting for him What, a white conservative Southerner voting for a black man? What the heck is going on here? What is going on is this man understands what this country is all about and I am voting for him because of his ideas, not the color of his skin.
    Wow. I am impressed. I bet some of your best friends are black, too, right?

    Just the fact that you feel obligated to bring up skin color in a totally unrelated thread is very telling.
  12. #192  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    It's just a fundamental difference in what we believe our country is about. Some believe the government should provide everything....and others believe the less government the better. How about life insurance? Should the government handle that? How about disability insurance? Long term care insurance? How about home owners insurance? Good grief....you folks need to form a country that just collects your whole pay check and then hands out a set amount after they provide our housing, food, car, and insurance. You know, just enough so we can maybe go to McDonalds for apple slices or buy a video game and go to a movie. We can all live in the same size house and drive the same smart car. Well, maybe we can have a choice between a smart car and a battery car. Holy Toledo.
    You are right about a fundamental difference but not in what our country is about rather in what they perceive the current condition of the country to be.
    Your hyperbole is cute and all but not especially relevant. If you are alive you need to get healthcare from somewhere somehow, if you drive you are required to have auto insurance. Those are fee for service types of insurance and those types of insurance should not be controlled out in the for-profit sector. You don't like government, fine then put in the hands of independent not-for-profit organizations who's goal is to keep over head costs balanced with service costs. The free market is nice for driving innovation but there really isn't anything left to innovate in the way of insurance. The only thing left to make insurance more efficient would be to cut overhead costs and right now the LARGEST overhead cost is the need to produce profits that leave the insurance pool and go to the insurance companies' controlling interests.

    But hey, I can throw hyperbole out there too. How about we completely unrestricted the markets and businesses. Allow them to control everything so they can figure out how to continue increasing profits for their shareholders. I'm sure you'll be more than happy to have to pay a direct service fee to be able to clean breath air or possible air at all.
  13. Micael's Avatar
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    #193  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Wow. I am impressed. I bet some of your best friends are black, too, right?

    Just the fact that you feel obligated to bring up skin color in a totally unrelated thread is very telling.
    lol. too funny. as if the left doesn't inject race into just about every argument they're losing.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  14. #194  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    I disagree with you. I am a conservative (no really, I am) and I don't agree with everything the Republicans have done or necessarily push. Many Republicans had different opinions on what Bush did, especially towards the latter part of his 2nd term.
    And when I bring up the wrong that Bush did, I get that I am picking on the previous administration....

    Funny....when Republicans agree on everything we are the party of exclusion and when we disagree we are falling apart.
    Never said "falling apart," I said "exiled." See Crist and Spector and all of the GOP members that have been labeled RINOs. That is not coming from the Dems...

    I would like to see the studies that show the majority of Republicans live in "cookie cutter, track homes". Not doubting you, but just would like to see the study that shows this.
    Come to the Orange County and check it out. Even better, Go to Arizona! Huge GOP state there, and every single house looks like the one next to it, and they're all the same shade of biege...

    I won't even get into your comments about HOA's....good grief....you had to really think hard to come up with that one, huh? LOL
    A dem did not come up with that nonsense, that's for sure!

    It tends to be the left that feels that children shouldn't lose games (everyone a winner right? God forbid they learn a lesson that not everyone wins all the time),...
    So you start off by saying not to pigeonhole Reps, and then you proceed to pigeonhole Dems....

    As for your point, I don't think that not having a winner for kids sports is a good thing either, BUT, you must realize that they are doing this for 4yos playing t-ball! Is a having a winner and a loser for 4yos going to prove anything? Not really. But it will get them out there and playing a game, learning the fundamentals of a sport and keep them away from the damned TV for a few hour a week.

    ...or that, as the ***** obama put it, "we need to spread the wealth around". And why would you spread this wealth around, so that everyone can be different, or everyone can be the same?
    Wow, this was taken out of context more than 2 years ago and you are still clinging to it?

    Obama would like nothing more than have everyone in the same position....nice and "fair"....the world should be "fair", right? I'm not buying your BS today, sorry.
    Yes, because having a fair playing field, like having large corps not be in the business of screwing us over and pay their fair share of taxes like you and I have to, is such a horrible, communist, idea...

    By the way....I'll let Tim Scott (R), who will hopefully be elected to the House from my district in SC, know that he needs to paint his face white....you see....he is a very impressive black man that has conservative views. And yes, I'll be voting for him What, a white conservative Southerner voting for a black man? What the heck is going on here? What is going on is this man understands what this country is all about and I am voting for him because of his ideas, not the color of his skin.
    Good job. You had to actually point out the fact that you are voting for someone of the other race! Dems have been doing that for decades without having to draw attention to it. Proof? look at the faces of the Dems in congress then look at the faces of the Reps.
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
    - H.L. Mencken
  15. #195  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Wow. I am impressed. I bet some of your best friends are black, too, right?

    Just the fact that you feel obligated to bring up skin color in a totally unrelated thread is very telling.
    Okay....now this is funny.....you accuse me (the Southern Conservative) of bringing up color....but....well.....go back and read Kenanator's post to me.....he specifically said "If you look at republicans, you see all white faces, all in of their agendas are in lockstep, and if they show any kind of "free thinking," they seem to be exiled from the party." So, davidra, I was responding to the liberal who brought up skin color first What, a liberal brought up skin color first? How could this be???? Davidra, his comment was trying to indicate that there are no black "faces" in the Republican party while I was simply pointing out that we happen to have a very strong candidate right here in this thar State of SC...and guess what? He has a black face. Go figure, huh? Too funny, good davidra gave me a laugh as he put his foot in his mouth once again. Davidra, you might want to preach to Kenanator about playing the race card before preaching to me.....just saying.

    By the way Davidra, congrats on the Florida Gators becoming the new "thug" university. 27 arrests in 5 years on the football team? Nice bunch of youngsters you got down there. Of course, all that matters are the National Championships, right?
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  16. #196  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    lol. too funny. as if the left doesn't inject race into just about every argument they're losing.
    Well, it all stop if the right would stop being racists!!!
    "Brace yourself, you beautiful *****. I am about to **** you up with some truth!" - Kenny Powers

    "I don't mind paying taxes. With taxes, I purchase civilization."
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  17. #197  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenanator View Post
    Good job. You had to actually point out the fact that you are voting for someone of the other race! Dems have been doing that for decades without having to draw attention to it. Proof? look at the faces of the Dems in congress then look at the faces of the Reps.
    Again....heavy sigh....I didn't bring up race first. You liberals are good at this....I must admit....of pointing the finger at people regarding race, then when we reply, you reply as you did. Go read your own post, LOL....geez. Oh never mind, you'll say either it was added or maybe it was taken "out of context"....that's the liberals favorite line. Everything is taken "out of context" and suddenly all is ok. I try and repond to liberal BS in here when I can, but I actually have to work so might try and repond to the rest of your stuff later.....good grief.....gotta gather income before ***** obama rips it away and distributes it elsewhere .
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  18. Micael's Avatar
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    #198  
    Dems guess wrong on health care
    By: Carrie Budoff Brown
    September 22, 2010 10:31 PM EDT

    Rarely have so many political strategists been so wrong about something so big.

    But when it comes to the health care bill, everyone from former President Bill Clinton on down whiffed on some of the more significant predictions.

    Democrats would run aggressively on the legislation? Nope. Voters would forget about the sausage-making aspects of the legislative process? Doesn’t seem that way, as the process contributed to the sense that the bill was deeply flawed.

    And Clinton’s own promise to jittery Democrats that their poll numbers would skyrocket after the bill finally passed also didn’t pan out, as the party is fighting for its life in the midterms.

    At the six-month mark, the law remains a riddle for political analysts, lawmakers and the White House. Here’s a look at some of the predictions that have proved off the mark.

    “I’m telling you, I don’t care how low they drive support for this with misinformation. The minute the president signs the health care reform bill, approval will go up, because Americans are inherently optimistic.” — Bill Clinton at the Netroots Nation convention in August 2009.

    When Clinton spoke, Democratic lawmakers listened.

    And why shouldn’t they? Clinton’s a party elder who battled back from his own defeat over health care reform, a Republican takeover of Congress and impeachment.

    His sunny, longer-term outlook came at a time when Democrats were increasingly anxious about the protracted negotiations on Capitol Hill, the lack of focus on the economy and the mounting backlash from voters, as evidenced by the raucous town halls during the same month Clinton spoke.

    A week before final passage, Democratic pollsters Douglas Schoen and Pat Caddell, who had worked for Clinton, pierced the optimism. They wrote a Washington Post op-ed warning the party had deluded itself into thinking that Americans wanted the bill. And as a result, they wrote, Democrats ran the risk of “unmitigated disaster” in November.

    The Washington establishment responded in kind. Obama pollster Joel Benenson shot back that Schoen and Caddell were peddling “Republican myths.” The American Enterprise Institute’s Norm Ornstein and the Brookings Institution’s Thomas Mann penned a response column that started out by describing Schoen and Caddell as “disgruntled (if not former) Democrats.”

    Nobody knows whether Democrats would be doing any better if they abandoned the health care push. They would have owned the issue regardless, given how long they had spent on it.

    But six months later, Schoen and Caddell were more accurate in their predictions than their former boss: Public attitudes towards the legislation remain as negative and divided as when Obama signed it into law.


    “I was wrong,” Clinton acknowledged Sunday on NBC’s “Meet the Press.”

    “If and when this is passed, Democrats will run aggressively on this.” — White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer in The New York Times on March 15, 2010.

    Obama told Democrats repeatedly that they would be proud to campaign on legislation as historic as comprehensive health care reform, something that had eluded generations of lawmakers and presidents.

    Top Democratic strategists and administration officials, dispatched by the White House, made the case, too. White House deputy chief of staff Jim Messina told Senate Democrats during a private caucus meeting in November about the electoral ramifications of health reform that it would be important to achieve parity with the opposition on the airwaves and that they needed to “stand for something, go for it and always play offense.”

    The campaign season has played out quite differently.

    A handful of Democrats are using TV ads to tout their “no” votes, but none are doing the same to highlight their support. Some Senate Democrats, including Barbara Boxer of California and Michael Bennet of Colorado, ignore the law altogether in the health care section of their campaign websites. They don't take credit for helping pass the Affordable Care Act.

    As for parity in the ad wars, POLITICO reported Wednesday that Democrats are fuming over the lack of financial support they’re receiving after taking a series of tough votes, including from pro-health reform groups. Pro-Republican third-party organizations have paid for a total of $23.6 million worth of ads, while Democratic-aligned groups have spent just $4.8 million on TV.

    Now, the White House expectation for Democratic candidates falls far short of aggressive.

    “Obviously, they’ll do what they think and what they believe is best in terms of what they want to talk about in their districts,” White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said this week.

    “When it comes to health care and insurance, once reform passes, the tangible benefits Americans will realize will trump the fear-mongering rhetoric opponents are stoking today.” — Obama pollster Joel Benenson in a Washington Post op-ed on March 13, 2010.

    Democrats pushed as many benefits as they could to the front of the implementation timetable, hoping enough Americans would get a taste of reform and public opinion would begin to turn around before the elections.

    But some of the more popular changes, including allowing young people to stay on their parents’ insurance until age 26 are going into effect only this week. Back in March, the mid-September target seemed like plenty of time to make a difference before the election. But with a political environment that has turned so negative for Democrats, some analysts say the positive news won’t matter in the short term.

    Not even a wave of $250 checks for more than 1 million senior citizens on Medicare prescription drugs has boosted attitudes and allayed fears among this particularly skeptical demographic.

    “I don’t think that is a game changer,” said Jim Firman, president and chief executive officer of the National Council on Aging, of the rebate checks. “(There is) more concern about the overall integrity and solvency of Medicare and how their access to physicians will be protected.”

    “The reconciliation process is entirely appropriate for amending the Senate-passed bill; in any case, the public will judge the Democrats on the basis of the results, not the inside-baseball process.” — Ornstein and Mann in The New Republic on March 15, 2010

    The “inside-baseball process” did matter because it became the dominant narrative of the debate.

    Democrats argued that voters wouldn’t care about how the bill became law, only that Congress delivered on its promise. But with trust in government at historic lows, things that were normal on Capitol Hill — negotiating behind closed doors, cutting deals for votes — suddenly looked like an abuse of power to the average voter.

    The ugly battle may well amount to a footnote years from now, but even a central figure in hatching the Democratic strategy says the party erred.

    “The textbook in a civics class of how the institution should not act was the health care bill,” Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., told NBC News this month. “It was arrogant. Both parties were arrogant and selfish, in my view."

    “Flip-flopping is dangerous in this business.” -- A senior Senate Democratic aide in POLITICO on March 3, 2010.

    White House and congressional aides used this line as they whipped House and Senate Democrats for votes, trying to prevent defections as the bill came around for final passage. And labor unions pledged to take out Democrats who stayed in the “no” column.


    But the threats were more bark than bite for those who flip-flopped. Sen. Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas beat a labor-backed primary challenger, as did Rep. Stephen Lynch of Massachusetts. Rep. Michael Arcuri of New York faces a tough general election, but a recent Siena College poll showed him up by 8 points. And Rep. Daniel Lipinski of Illinois is viewed as a shoo-in for November.

    “They are now in the unfortunate position of looking voters in the eye and pledging to take away their health care, reinstate the doughnut hole for seniors and restore pre-existing conditions for insurance companies.” — Eric Schultz, spokesman for the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, in the Daily Caller on March 31, 2010.

    Six months later, the repeal-and-replace platform remains a cornerstone of the House Republican agenda if the party wins back control of Congress.

    Democrats still think this is a battle they can win, not simply because Obama can veto any measure weakening the law. They believe voters will not want to give up benefits once they go into effect, even if they dislike the overall law.

    Still, rather than being viewed as a kooky notion, the repeal-and-replace battle cry resonates with the electorate: Polls show voters are divided on the question, with about as many people opposed to rolling back the law as those who favor doing so.

    “The moment health care is signed into law, that is half-time. The next half is selling it to the American people.” -- Third Way vice president FOR policy Jim Kessler in POLITICO on Oct. 19, 2009.

    Obama mentions the law during public remarks, often at Democratic fundraisers. But it’s usually just a few lines wedged between the economy and the financial regulatory overhaul. And it’s nothing like the full court press that political analysts predicted before the bill’s passage and White House officials hinted at.

    The president shifted immediately to the economy, then to the Wall Street reform bill and the Gulf Coast oil spill. He’s done only a handful of events focused on health care reform in the last six months.

    “I realized it wasn’t half time. The game was actually over,” Kessler said. “People just said, ‘I don’t want to listen to stories about this anymore. It took too long, I didn’t like the process and in the end, I might like the bill but just stop talking to me about it.’”

    © 2010 Capitol News Company, LLC
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  19. #199  
    Yep. Dem leaders underestimated just how much of a frenzy Repub fear-mongering managed to get people into.
  20. Micael's Avatar
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    #200  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Yep. Dem leaders underestimated just how much of a frenzy Repub fear-mongering managed to get people into.
    lol. nice nothing response.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

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