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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by zulfaqar621 View Post
    I was hoping for something more specific like a link to an article. Even so you haven't proven that those Muslims who are offended by the Quran burning are "asking for American blood". The protests you mention that there has been chanting of death to America are in regions rife with extremists, so please prove these are "the most liberal Muslims". You are taking two different reactions and painting all Muslims as having one reaction.

    Just so its clear I am offended by the actions of the Pastor in Fl but I also don't want to circumvent his constitutional rights. I also pray that Muslims worldwide will peacefully protest his actions and understand that any violence committed is antithetical to our teachings.

    We have a narration that the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) when he first started taking his message to the people of Medinah, there was this one woman who hated him so much she would throw trash on him everyday as he would walk to the mosque to pray. The Prophet never said an unkind word to her let alone assault her or allow anyone else to do so on his behalf. One day he walks past her house and notices the lady had not thrown trash on him. So after his prayers he goes to the door of the woman and asks why the woman did not come out that day. Her son told him that she was sick. The Prophet asked to go and wish her well.

    This is the example that we are given by our Prophet. So to all the Muslims I say follow his example and show compassion to even you enemies.
    you bet i am ,, much like the muslim extremists paint all of the western world as evil. I know I know, we should be better then that, turn the other cheek, I choose not to. I am not American, I am from Canada, where political correctness is a religion unto itself. I will call a shovel a shovel, I could care less if its some good ol boy, wanting to lynch a person of african heritage, or, some mulim wackjob who blows up people in markets. You say its in the extremists areas that these protests are happening, hmmm I would say, that its being exported to these areas by what are considered a more restrained mulim country(s). Osama is from Saudia Arabia i believe. many of the foregin fighters come from there, as well as other more westernize countries, ie Bosnia, Albania, Chechna (sp) etc etc. Yes there is home grown extremists, but they have even been found in Canada, I look to the little shooting down in Texas military base. etc etc.. Do I believe micaels 10 percent number? damn i hope not, because if it is even half that number, we have a far bigger problem then we ever imagined.
    Saying all that, this moron in Florida, and his sheeple, are no better. Perhaps they are not carrying guns or bombs, but they influence people to do that very thing.
    Yes, America is a melting pot, so is Canada, the entrenched of both countries are reaching a boiling point. I look to England, yes it has a diverse population, due to the Commonwealth setup. They are reaching the same boiling point as is France, Germany the Netherlands and so on.
    You can only demand so much from the encumbent population. Eventually, they will stop giving. Close their doors, and frankly fight back.
    Do I care if your muslim, heck no. I could care less. This goes to my absolute disdain for all religions, the extremists just reenforce by belief that religion is just plain stupid, and thats the extremists from all your religons, not just muslilm.

    I will try to find the link to the story where it listed the different news outlets. I will try to post it later.
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  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fisack23 View Post
    I thought about Dr. King. I refrained because some will try to say that the militant group the Black Panthers helped to force the issue, although he was not associated with them.

    Maybe that's a good illustration of our discussion - some will try to discount his achievements because he was black, as were the Panthers.

    Maybe we should outlaw all men, since the 9/11 terrorists were all male? Or singles, since none of them that I know of were married?
    Well that's taking something to an extreme, I have just been making the point that people concerns, fears and anger are rightly pointed at Muslims. Again, it's Muslims who are planning and carrying out these attacks. We didn't see average Americans, lashing out in great numbers prior to the 9/11 attacks, but the attacks changed everything. Should it be towards all Muslims? No, but to deny that Islamic extremists are the heart of the problem is fool-hearty. I'm sure a majority of Muslim americans denounce the actions of the these radicals, but it is also true that there are factions that support them both philosophically and financially. It would be irresponsible to the lives already lost and could be lost in the future to ignore them and not try to root them out.
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  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Really....we're all VERY impressed.
    You're sarcasm noted "sir", just tryin to lighten the mood a little.....are you ever not so serious?
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by verwon View Post
    Everyone here should remember that this is a very touchy topic. Most of America and her allies took 9/11 very personal. Almost all were affected by it, in some way and as a nation, we tend to hold a grudge. In this case, we've been given a very good reason to do so!
    I agree its a touchy subject, but it is now 9 years later. There is no good reason to discriminate against someone on the basis of their religion.

    We are at war with the Taliban, a terrorist group who have hijacked Islam and twisted it to justify their sick deeds.

    We are not at war with all Muslims. Islam is not bad. Justifying discrimination based on religion is bad. No way to discount that. If because of 9/11 you now hate all Muslims, you epic fail. (not directed at you specifically)

    anti-islam pre 9/11

    more


    more


    Falwell saying Islam is about Hate... PRE 9/11
    Last edited by mrloserpunk; 09/09/2010 at 03:13 PM.
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    #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    I agree its a touchy subject, but it is now 9 years later. There is no good reason to discriminate against someone on the basis of their religion.

    We are at war with the Taliban, a terrorist group who have hijacked Islam and twisted it to justify their sick deeds.

    We are not at war with all Muslims. Islam is not bad. Justifying discrimination based on religion is bad. No way to discount that. If because of 9/11 you now hate all Muslims, you epic fail. (not directed at you specifically)
    Help me if I missed the post in this thread that said anything about "Islam is bad", or where a "good reason to discriminate against someone on the basis of their religion" was posted?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    ...
    Yes, America is a melting pot, so is Canada, the entrenched of both countries are reaching a boiling point....
    While I agree that the entrenched in both countries are reaching a boiling point I can't agree on the second take.

    Canada has always prided itself on it's multiculturalism philosophy which is in stark contrast to the American melting pot model.....and this perhaps explains a few things.
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  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Help me if I missed the post in this thread that said anything about "Islam is bad", or where a "good reason to discriminate against someone on the basis of their religion" was posted?
    we tend to hold a grudge. In this case, we've been given a very good reason to do so!
    So were holding the grudge to those hijackers, or they're religion?


    We are reaching a boiling point, because some find it necessary to fuel the fire.









    This kind of rhetoric is what is fanning the fire here in the states.
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    #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    So were holding the grudge to those hijackers, or they're religion?
    How is that discrimination?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Nobody has suggested such. So their organization as labeled Al Qaeda? The driving philosophy they flew in on was muslim extremism. You somehow missed that?
    1. Thread suggests taking a Muslim to lunch to be open and welcoming.

    2. Poster says (essentially), "We were open and welcoming, and they [sic] destroyed the World Trade Center."

    3. I say, "Huh?"

    4. You say, "Isn't it obvious?"

    5. I say, "No, it isn't, because 'Muslim' does not equal 'Al Qaeda member'."

    6. You say, "Who said anything like that?"

    7. I say, "Read 1 and 2 above."
  10. #110  
    I'm curious, I wonder why all the passengers on the planes just didn't try and be nice to the hijackers. If they were just more understood this could have never happened? Maybe if someone had taken them to lunch, they wouldn't have wanted to kill thousands of people and themselves.
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  11. Micael's Avatar
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    #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    3. I say, "Huh?"
    So, in fact, you *did* understand his post. Thanks for finally agreeing.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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    #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    So were holding the grudge to those hijackers, or they're religion?


    We are reaching a boiling point, because some find it necessary to fuel the fire.









    This kind of rhetoric is what is fanning the fire here in the states.
    Sorry. I missed all of these signs and images in the previous posts. Must have skipped over them somehow.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    How is that discrimination?

    grudge:
    a feeling of ill will or resentment;

    discrimination:
    to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit.

    I have a grudge against a person because he shares the same religion as one of the 9/11 hijackers.

    That would be discrimination. Because I would have a distinction against a person on the basis of the religion he belongs to rather than any actual merit.
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  14.    #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by LonghornTreo View Post
    Well that's taking something to an extreme, I have just been making the point that people concerns, fears and anger are rightly pointed at Muslims. Again, it's Muslims who are planning and carrying out these attacks.
    I would disagree on that point - it is extremists who carry out and plan these attack. They are extreme Muslims, but by definition (extremist) they do not represent the majority. You cannot judge the whole by the extremists. If we did, then all Oakland Raider fans are loud-mouthed vulgar beer-guzzling alcoholics, because that's what I see when they show Oakland games on ESPN.

    (anybody from Oakland want to disagree?)
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    #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post

    grudge:
    a feeling of ill will or resentment;

    discrimination:
    to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit.

    I have a grudge against a person because he shares the same religion as one of the 9/11 hijackers.

    That would be discrimination. Because I would have a distinction against a person on the basis of the religion he belongs to rather than any actual merit.
    Huh? Their not even remotely connected. You're really stretching mlp. You get an A though, for effort!

    grudge is a feeling. discrimination is an action. reread your own post.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Help me if I missed the post in this thread that said anything about "Islam is bad", or where a "good reason to discriminate against someone on the basis of their religion" was posted?
    Exactly! Thank you!

    As a matter of fact, in my other posts, I've specifically said that not everything applies to everyone associated with any particular religion or sect.

    As with anything else, there are good people and bad people. This means we must look at individuals, not any group as a whole.

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  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by LonghornTreo View Post
    Spoken like a Grand Appeaser, unfortunately the world doesn't operate like this. Reaching out and embracing a disparate group only works when both sides are seeking a peaceful coexistence. As wonderful as this ideal is, history has shown for thousands of years that there are often groups that just cannot be negotiated with on issues. How would one have negotiated items with the ****s? Is there a certain number of jews you would have allowed them to exterminate? What about African warlords, Is there a certain number of villages it would be alright to let them ravage and burn? The same is true for radical islamists. Would you be willing to have American walk away from any involvement in the middle east whatsoever, no matter what countries were involved?

    In the span of history, please name me a concrete example of an oppressing power that was every removed or changed from only negotiations.
    And every person who practices Islam is somehow on "the other side"?

    (Incidentally, as a nation we've been perfectly content to let African warlords burn down as many villages as they please, so it's an odd example to choose.)
  18. #118  
    what would this idea even accomplish? If the vast majority of Muslims wish no ill will on America and it's citizens as you claim. Then what would taking one to lunch accomplish, I guess the Muslims would continue not to wish anyone harm. If your idea was to take a Taliban to lunch, well I suppose it might work if he didn't take it as an opportunity to kill an American, although it might get you nominated for a Darwin award.
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  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Huh? Their not even remotely connected. You're really stretching mlp. You get an A though, for effort!

    grudge is a feeling. discrimination is an action. reread your own post.
    I'm not sure why you think its okay to hold a grudge against an entire religion for the actions of a few either way.
    In my book that's simply wrong. My Parents always taught me that one should be held accountable for their own actions. You may think its okay, so ill give it a try too...

    I'm not petting my neighbors dog at all this afternoon, cause all dogs are bad. One peed on my favorite shoes when I was 12.

    I'll report back if it makes me feel better.
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  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    And every person who practices Islam is somehow on "the other side"?

    (Incidentally, as a nation we've been perfectly content to let African warlords burn down as many villages as they please, so it's an odd example to choose.)
    I'm sure its because we just haven't sent enough people to talk with them and understand their plight.
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