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  1. #41  
    religion is a tool that has been used by countless idiots down thru the ages. I know I know, you just gotta believe. well i dont, i dont believe in some great all powerful being who thru his her its will, benevolance etc etc we are allowed to exist. To the extremist side of things. Everyone has to remember one lil thing, be it the bible Quran, etc etc they were all written by men, men who over the ages have had an axe to grind about one thing or the other.
    IF and ONLY IF a GOD came down from the sky/heaven and showed me what who etc etc i would then kick him or her in the .... and tell em that i think for myself. This wont happen any time soon.
    The zelots of any religion or belief system are people who are unable to believe in themselves. Who frankly in my opinion have trouble waking up in the morning and tieing their own shoes. They need to be guided through their entire lives.
    Book burning, heck, some here are right, beheading people with a large knife, yes i like many saw the video, is not what any religion is all about. most religions have had their day being zelots, will it end? ya the day after Hawkings proves once an for all there is NO GOD.
    Until then, we will have to live with the outrage of 1.5 billion people, who blindly follow a book written by men, who for whatever reason, put a bunch of mumbo jumbo together and called it the word of their god. At the same time we will have to put with petty lil men who feel the best way to beat them is to join them, by burning a bunch of paper.
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    religion is a tool that has been used by countless idiots down thru the ages. I know I know, you just gotta believe. well i dont, i dont believe in some great all powerful being who thru his her its will, benevolance etc etc we are allowed to exist. To the extremist side of things. Everyone has to remember one lil thing, be it the bible Quran, etc etc they were all written by men, men who over the ages have had an axe to grind about one thing or the other.
    IF and ONLY IF a GOD came down from the sky/heaven and showed me what who etc etc i would then kick him or her in the .... and tell em that i think for myself. This wont happen any time soon.
    The zelots of any religion or belief system are people who are unable to believe in themselves. Who frankly in my opinion have trouble waking up in the morning and tieing their own shoes. They need to be guided through their entire lives.
    Book burning, heck, some here are right, beheading people with a large knife, yes i like many saw the video, is not what any religion is all about. most religions have had their day being zelots, will it end? ya the day after Hawkings proves once an for all there is NO GOD.
    Until then, we will have to live with the outrage of 1.5 billion people, who blindly follow a book written by men, who for whatever reason, put a bunch of mumbo jumbo together and called it the word of their god. At the same time we will have to put with petty lil men who feel the best way to beat them is to join them, by burning a bunch of paper.
    While perhaps not the most eloquent delivery ;-)....I completely agree.
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  3. Micael's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrloserpunk View Post
    I couldn't see past the prejudice to see your original point, sorry. What was it? 10% of Muslims are terrorists???
    I can see this isn't going to be an actual dialogue.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Seriously?
    Seriously.
  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    Seriously.
    dbd stated the obvious that we were already open and welcoming when they attacked us. Our guard was down, and they took advantage of it. How can that possibly be unclear?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    While perhaps not the most eloquent delivery ;-)....I completely agree.
    while some get all hot and bothered about their religion being slandered, i get a bit more then ****sy about religion from the other direction.
    I do not understand, how people, who would seem to be intelligent thinking human beings, can throw themselves wholely into a so much clap trap.
    Ya ya i have heard it all, there are no atheists in a foxhole, etc etc.. well, i have been officially dead twice, both times caught in avalanches out in the rockies. I got lucky both times that people dug me out and restarted my heart and breathing. NO, I still dont believe in your god. ( not saying its your god in particular, just venting lol). The mere thought of people devoting their lives to this this book and some sort of being that lurks in the back ground to me is stupid. There would be far less trouble and crap in the world if people just started believing in themselves. Simple.
    As to a lurking all powerful being, him isnt there stalking laws lolol..
    back on topic, this ***** in florida, and his lil group of followers, will not take responsiblitly for what they will do on Sept 11, they will say it was their god's commandment or some such to burn this bit of paper. So other people will pay for the bs this guy and his lil group are about to do.

    Sorry, i know your constitution allows this, but someone should lock up this ***** before he gets hurt, do it for his own protection. He is obviously suicidal. lol
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    dbd stated the obvious that we were already open and welcoming when they attacked us. Our guard was down, and they took advantage of it. How can that possibly be unclear?
    Thank you, Micael.

    I'm also worried that while so many Americans are trying to be overly politically correct (just to make THEMSELVES feel better about THEMSELVES), we have become complacent yet again.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I can see this isn't going to be an actual dialogue.
    You make a radical statement, and can't stand the heat it brings?

    10% of Muslims are extremists? You are prejudging the religion. What were your sources?

    I can find several sites stating that African Americans only have a percentage of the intelligence white people have, then I can use an average in an argument to say 10% of blacks are dumber than average white people. This is the same as what you have done.

    Your comment is a prejudice, and your trying to pass it off as if you are simply the messenger of these "sites". How can you justify what your comment was let me put it here again:


    Large font and semantics do not change the fact that a small radical group of extremists were responsible for 9/11, just like the small group of radical extremists that murder abortion doctors. While the scale is different, both are wrong...and are NOT representative of the religion as a whole.(for context)
    No, just 10 percent of them... that's what? A couple hundred million? No biggee?

    If there were that many radical abortion doctor murderers, we'd be done with the abortion debate by now.
    You are claiming 10% of Muslims are radical extremists. When called out on the numbers you say:

    You're only assuming I pulled that number out of my ****. I didn't, mlp. Look around the net and you'll find numbers of anywhere from 1% to 34%, and everywhere in between. It's subjective, and each estimate takes slightly different reference metrics as inputs. But what seems to me at least to be the mean, and indeed most of these estimates seem to land around 7-15%.
    Show me a site that makes a claim of how many extremists are in the Muslim faith, that does not have an agenda, or is backed by a particular christian group or organization or affiliated with one.
    "When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth"


    PM me your questions, If I cant find an answer, I'll show you who can.
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    #49  
    show yourself.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fisack23 View Post
    Instead of trying to be insulting and provocative, what if we lived up to our idealistic heritage as Americans and were welcoming and inviting?

    As a Christian, I am insulted and embarrassed by those who want to burn the Quran or deny other faiths a place to meet and worship. I believe that Jesus would rather have me get to know more Muslims than see them as stereotypes. We can be much more influential with grace than with arrogance.
    I would love to have lunch with you :-) Just not today. Last day of fasting.
  11. #51  
    I haven't read this whole thread, but that never stopped me from commenting before...so here goes.

    I think that our focus should be less on someone's religion, a deeply personal matter, and more on that person. Muslims are not all evil...nor are they all good. They are people and each is an individual. The religion is also not inherently violent or evil...just as Catholicism wasn't inherently evil during the Crusades.

    Many of us know Muslims. I hesitate to use this trite form, but I will by saying that my best friend is a devout Muslim who prays five times each day and is fasting for Ramadan at the moment. He is one of the kindest people I know...and makes an effort not to even think bad things let alone do bad things. Seriously. We have talked about how he really tries to think positively about some folks with whom we work..when most of my other team members consider them to be, let's just say, less than stellar. In that respect, he is an inspiration.

    He also never proselytizes. We do discuss religion, quite a bit because we are close and because it is a significant aspect of his life..but he is very open minded and has good humor about the topic. Example - I noticed him praying at 6 in the morning in the locker room before we started our regular racquetball game recently and told him "it's not going to help, get in the damn court"...and his response, as I expected, was laughter.

    In my discussions about religion with him, I have been shocked to learn many things, including:

    1) Muslims believe Muhammad is only a prophet...not a deity...which is why they don't like his image used...since it presents the temptation for him to be worshiped as a deity

    2) They also believe Jesus was a great prophet. They just don't believe, to quote Sarah Silverman, that Jesus was magic.


    Is he representative of every Muslim? Hardly...but he has clearly conveyed to me that his religion stands against everything that terrorism represents. Does that not mean that there are not very real problems with religious extremists? Not at all. There are severe issues in the world with religious extremism...and much of that is tied to Muslim extremism...as well as with human rights offenses in many countries that are primarily Muslim...but that does not indict the religion...it indicts those national/regional cultures. That's not to say that it reflects negatively on everyone in those countries, but it certainly doesn't necessarily reflect negatively on those who decided to leave those cultures (and family members) and come here to live in the land of religious and personal freedom.


    I was raised Catholic and my people participated in significant terrorism over the years in the name of religion, from the Crusades, to the IRA, to the killing of abortion clinic doctors. Does that indict all Catholics? Hardly.


    Take a Muslim to lunch? I see that you are trying to help bridge gaps, and that is great, but purposely seeking out someone based on their culture, race, or religion and deciding to get to know them may be difficult if not misguided. I suggest just being open-minded when you meet anyone...and try to learn their perspective without projecting your own on to them.

    BTW, among the victims of 9/11 were many innocent Muslims working in those towers. They are also serving in uniform and dying for this nation.

    Here is one with his mom:

    http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/44363/original.jpg

    $0.02

    cheers,
    Scuba
  12. #52  
    I'm a pure atheist, because I saw years ago how screwed up all religions are and how badly the screw up the people that follow them.

    However, when it comes to being friends with someone, I don't care what they believe in and as someone else stated, I think you should take someone to lunch based on them as a person, not because their belief system is being persecuted.

    Plain and simple fact, the persecution isn't right, but there is a reason that people have been made to feel the way they do about Muslims.
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  13. #53  
    I just love religious debates on Internet forums. Some of the best logical arguments and presentation of facts available in any medium! [/sarcasm]

    Faith and belief are funny things, they're often based on heresay and stories passed down from generation to generation. They're so ingrained in our minds that we find it very hard to accept that ANYONE could possibly believe differently because we're so damn sure we're right.

    I would rank religious intolerance as one of the leading causes of pain and misery in our world today. If each and every one of us could just say "you're entitled to your belief". The world would be full full of sunshine and double rainbows full on across the sky.

    Our inability as humans to accept a viewpoint that differs from our own is what causes one group to fly a plane into a building and another to organize a giant bonfire of anothers religious symbol. Is one worse than the other? You're damn right it is. Does that make the other right by comparison? No.

    What do these people really hope to accomplish by burning a freakin' book? Do they think that for every book they burn a radical religious nut-job will also spontaniously burst into flames? I'm not a doctor or anything, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way.

    Feeding hate with hate only breeds more hate. That's the last thing we need as a people.

    So in winding down my ridiculous rant, I agree with the OP. Lets all grab a bite and chill. We can agree to leave ALL religious text at home.



    [/rant]
    Last edited by Spader; 09/09/2010 at 12:21 PM.
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    #54  
    I agree that the book burner certainly won't help things. In fact, I think he's a moron.

    But I'd also like to see Muslims take a "first step" to smooth things over and ease tensions. Building that mosque somewhere else would be a nice place to start. I'm just saying...
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  15. #55  
    You know, thinking back to the OP's question; why don't we also have a "Take a J e w out to lunch day", a "Take a Negro out to lunch day" and a "Take a Chinese guy out to lunch day"?

    Treating a person special because of their race, religion or creed is also predjudice.

    Think about it.
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    #56  
    well at least it will be a nice day to own a restaurant.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    well at least it will be a nice day to own a restaurant.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbdoinit View Post
    You know, thinking back to the OP's question; why don't we also have a "Take a J e w out to lunch day", a "Take a Negro out to lunch day" and a "Take a Chinese guy out to lunch day"?

    Treating a person special because of their race, religion or creed is also predjudice.

    Think about it.
    Becoz they are endangered species??? maybe i dunno lol
  19. #59  
    I'm not applying this to everyone, because we all know that some religious people are just fine and great people, so please don't misunderstand.

    However, I am tired of the ones that always go around saying 'Well, I'm a christian (or religion of choice) and...' like it makes them better than everyone else that isn't or doesn't agree with their viewpoint!
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  20. #60  
    we are animals and as animals there is no way to ever take the instinct to fight and conquer completely away. We have fought for thousands of years over this exact same issue and it will not change. Preach what you will but someone will always stand against you.
    So pick your teams guys, I for one know my side and we lost 3000 americans so I say use lots of gas and make sure every copy available burns!
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