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  1. #321  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    im sorry , after reading 13 pages of this thread, i literally couldn't take it..

    i've unsubscribed to this thread, so i don't have to get upset at its one sidedness anymore
    I was waiting to see how long it would take for someone to go over the edge. Unlike in my "Existence of God" thread, I wanted to see how quickly the behavior would deteriorate without me trying to calm people down as tensions began to escalate. It's funny that they escalated in my thread over exactly the same "topic". I think I have a pretty good idea when to step in now (and I will if I happen to be online if/when someone is about to go over the edge).

    I clearly advocate religious tolerance (as does Fisack23) but I also realize (at least conceptually) that Islam "is not your father's Oldsmobile" as far as religions go.

    I totally agree with sketch42 and others who have for the most part simply expressed their distrust of Islam based on it's incompatibility with democracy (or really, the other way around). It's amazing that Muslims had to fight to conquer other nations but nowdays we seem to be handing them America on a silver platter due to our apathy.

    sketch42, your reaction was normal, please consider re-subscribing!

    --
    Bob
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  2. #322  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I was waiting to see how long it would take for someone to go over the edge. Unlike in my "Existence of God" thread, I wanted to see how quickly the behavior would deteriorate without me trying to calm people down as tensions began to escalate. It's funny that they escalated in my thread over exactly the same "topic". I think I have a pretty good idea when to step in now (and I will if I happen to be online if/when someone is about to go over the edge).

    I clearly advocate religious tolerance (as does Fisack23) but I also realize (at least conceptually) that Islam "is not your father's Oldsmobile" as far as religions go.

    I totally agree with sketch42 and others who have for the most part simply expressed their distrust of Islam based on it's incompatibility with democracy (or really, the other way around). It's amazing that Muslims had to fight to conquer other nations but nowdays we seem to be handing them America on a silver platter due to our apathy.

    sketch42, your reaction was normal, please consider re-subscribing!

    --
    Bob
    I've always liked your posting style.
    I know i said it earlier today, but i'll say it again-

    Great to see you back.
  3. #323  
    Quote Originally Posted by grappler View Post
    "Take a Muslim to Lunch" does not equal "Take an Al Qaeda Member to Lunch." How can that possibly be unclear?
    How can you tell the difference when they can easily blend in with the others.
  4. #324  
    Quote Originally Posted by kinster02 View Post
    How can you tell the difference when they can easily blend in with the others.
    How can you tell an ***** from a regular person?
    Generally by the kind of questions they ask...
  5. #325  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbdoinit View Post
    I've always liked your posting style.
    I know i said it earlier today, but i'll say it again-

    Great to see you back.
    Warning though ...
    This poster may self-destruct at any time. (I'll step in and out depending on whatever else competes for my priorities.)
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  6. #326  
    Quote Originally Posted by Fisack23 View Post
    Thank you for taking the time to write out your response with some thought. I would disagree with some of your interpretation, since I would consider the Crusades acts of terrorism, but you chose to limit your interpretation to just the current century. Is there a reason for that?

    You also limited the acts of "Christian terrorism" to just abortion - what about anti-gay rallies, anti-war demonstrations, and the KKK? For that matter, one of my favorite theologians, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, died in a **** prison camp for being part of a plot to assassinate ******. Would that be considered terrorism?

    What do you mean by "creating an extreme social disturbance"? Would the Tea Party (both Boston and current) be guilty of that?


    As for appeal to common sense - unfortunately, that is not considered a valid premise in logical argument. If you can show me actual facts of percentages of extremism in religions, that would be appropriate.

    My opinion is that it is the lack of education that breeds extremism in any thought process, religious, political, or otherwise. Of course, that is just my opinion. I have no facts to back that up.

    ****************************
    "85.4 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot."
    Ok, last time I'm going to say this. I am NOT going to discuss the Crusades, or the Muslim Jihad that spawned them. I am NOT going to discuss the witch hunts or the Spanish Inquisition. I am NOT going to discuss ancient Aztec, Incan, or Mayan human sacrifices. I am NOT going to discuss the Egyptian enslavement of the Jewish people. I am NOT going to talk about God flooding the earth, leaving only Noah and a couple of his peeps. I am NOT going to talk about the battles of the Bhagavad Gita. I am talking about today, in this world, in this society. Yes, we can't understand the present unless we understand the past, the actions of today are cause by the consequences of yesterday, blah blah blah. Let's focus on today's world, m'kay?
    I mentioned the KKK, so we're square there? I also said that I'm sure you would find other minor acts from all faiths. My list was admittedly far from all-inclusive. For that I would need my own server.
    And the Tea Party? Come on man, I said that the definition was broad. Let's not get absurd.
    As to why it was cowardly, you asked for statistics that you and I both know don't exist. Which is why I gave you some examples. Look at the evidence man, and come back with something to counter them.
    Finally, I understand the logical fallacy in an appeal to common sense. Sorry I misspoke. Let's call it an appeal to obvious examples from all over the world over the last few decades or so that are so glaringly and incredibly obvious and accessible that it should really call for people to either defend the actions, or explain how or why they shouldn't be considered either religious terrorism or not indicative of the majority, or at least a significant minority of the religion in question. Now, if you would like me to extrapolate all the data relating to terrorist attacks, and then, using the populations of each religion, find the percentage of that population involved in the attacks, and finally compare those percentages among the major religions of the world, I'm sorry, but I won't be able to get you that information. All I can do is present you with the numerous examples I can find and ask you to refute them, or present evidence to the contrary, which I'm betting you can't. I've shown that, without laying out every example possible, there are more cases of terrorism among Muslims than other religions. More by a long shot. Refute that by showing evidence to the contrary in the same format that I've presented to you, or seriously just bow out. Not yelling, just trying to get through the wall that is inexplicably up around anyone who wants to deny that Islamic terrorism far outnumbers any other religion, or even all religions combined.
    As to your opinion, 100% agree with you. Unfortunately, the idiots, and I use that word broadly, who are the so-called leaders of their religion/countries, are right there with the terrorists. Calling for jihad, calling for death in response to perceived blasphemy, continuing the repression of women, trying to crowbar the rest of civilization, if not only their own corner of it, back into the dark ages, is evidence that this religion is not only being used as an excuse for oppression, racism, and murder, but is actually an active cause of it. I'm no fan of religion as a whole, but Islam is the gift that keeps on giving, isn't it?
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  7. #327  
    Quote Originally Posted by 063_xobx View Post
    How can you tell an ***** from a regular person?
    Generally by the kind of questions the ask...
    Classic
  8. #328  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I was waiting to see how long it would take for someone to go over the edge. Unlike in my "Existence of God" thread, I wanted to see how quickly the behavior would deteriorate without me trying to calm people down as tensions began to escalate. It's funny that they escalated in my thread over exactly the same "topic". I think I have a pretty good idea when to step in now (and I will if I happen to be online if/when someone is about to go over the edge).

    I clearly advocate religious tolerance (as does Fisack23) but I also realize (at least conceptually) that Islam "is not your father's Oldsmobile" as far as religions go.

    I totally agree with sketch42 and others who have for the most part simply expressed their distrust of Islam based on it's incompatibility with democracy (or really, the other way around). It's amazing that Muslims had to fight to conquer other nations but nowdays we seem to be handing them America on a silver platter due to our apathy.

    sketch42, your reaction was normal, please consider re-subscribing!

    --
    Bob
    thank you sudoer , however i take to heart alot of whats in this thread not only because i know alot of people that where lost in the towers, and i almost lost my bros and father there, but because i myself have dozens of friends and relatives killed and maimed by these "radicals"

    i remember a time when America was a great country, that not only respected other countries, but respected Themselves as Americans...

    Unfortunately that time has come and gone... and no longer can we be proud to be americans, we must allow the burning of the flag.. the freedom to step all over the American ideals and be ashamed if we say Boo..

    i subscribe to the meaning of this song I AM A PATRIOT but the democrats and liberals as well as independents and republicans will twist it to mean what they want it to mean.
  9. #329  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    It's amazing that Muslims had to fight to conquer other nations but nowdays we seem to be handing them America on a silver platter due to our apathy.
    The over abundance of stereotypical, blind, christian, bible belt, yankee doodle dandiness going on in this thread is fascinating and should be completely embarrassing to all Americans.

    What I don't understand is that my experience thus far in the USA does not mirror the blind hate spewed forth in this thread. Perhaps the folks I have befriended are rare examples of educated worldly Americans that typically don't buy Palm hardware?

    Can't you creationists put away the faith finger pointing for a moment and approach these things differently?

    Or not...Just letting you know how this looks from the perspective of someone who has lived in other countries with much higher Muslim populations.
    Last edited by ryleyinstl; 09/13/2010 at 10:18 PM.
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  10. #330  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I was waiting to see how long it would take for someone to go over the edge. Unlike in my "Existence of God" thread, I wanted to see how quickly the behavior would deteriorate without me trying to calm people down as tensions began to escalate. It's funny that they escalated in my thread over exactly the same "topic". I think I have a pretty good idea when to step in now (and I will if I happen to be online if/when someone is about to go over the edge).

    I clearly advocate religious tolerance (as does Fisack23) but I also realize (at least conceptually) that Islam "is not your father's Oldsmobile" as far as religions go.

    I totally agree with sketch42 and others who have for the most part simply expressed their distrust of Islam based on it's incompatibility with democracy (or really, the other way around). It's amazing that Muslims had to fight to conquer other nations but nowdays we seem to be handing them America on a silver platter due to our apathy.

    sketch42, your reaction was normal, please consider re-subscribing!

    --
    Bob
    Excellent post vote from this guy as well. Particularly the reference to cars. That would make an interesting aside from this debate. If your religion was a car, which car would it be. Obviously Scientology is a spaceship, or at least a DC-8, but we're talking ground based religions, hence the requirement for ground based vehicles.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  11. #331  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    The over abundance of stereotypical, blind, christian, bible belt, yankee doodle dandiness going on in this thread is fascinating and should be completely embarrassing to all Americans.
    Agreed, but "overabundance does not mean everyone".

    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    Can't you creationists put away the faith finger pointing for a moment and approach these things differently?
    1. I'm not sure whether you are speaking to me or to others.
    2. What sort of "different" approach are you suggesting?


    thanks,
    --
    Bob
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  12. #332  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    That would make an interesting aside from this debate. If your religion was a car, which car would it be.
    I'd have to say a Mercedes. This one in particular.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  13. #333  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    1. What sort of "different" approach are you suggesting?
    One void of religious, comparative, highly subjective jibber jabber. Such as "Muslims are bad because my holy book is nicer then their holy book" (Naturally I'm paraphrasing).
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  14. #334  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    The over abundance of stereotypical, blind, christian, bible belt, yankee doodle dandiness going on in this thread is fascinating and should be completely embarrassing to all Americans.

    What I don't understand is that my experience thus far in the USA does not mirror the blind hate spewed forth in this thread. Perhaps the folks I have befriended are rare examples of educated worldly Americans that typically don't buy Palm hardware?

    Can't you creationists put away the faith finger pointing for a moment and approach these things differently?
    Really Ryley, I see hardly any posts that are obvious examples of Christians, or any other religions, blaming Islam. I'd have to say that the majority of the attacks have been non-denominational in nature. the simple fact of the matter is that, when presented with an argument that you don't agree with, don't try to insult the other side (Yankee doodle dandiness? Sorry for being patriotic), or brush them off as worthless by labeling it as the result of blind religious persecution. It's not blind hate, but an informed and opinion given the evidence at hand. The majority of Muslims are not terrorists, but the vast majority of terrorists, terrorist sympathizers, and terrorist acts are performed or supported by Muslims. The fact that I, and many others, are constantly pressed to apologize for our opinions on the matter, is no more than PC BS that really gets me going even more. People of your opinion should stop defending Islam, and instead should try to create a movement among moderate, or "normal" Muslims to express their outrage against the actions of these terrorists, and the national/religious leaders who spur it on and allow it to continue. If you want me to take any of them seriously, please point me to the outrage among the international Muslim community over the deaths of their own Imams at the hands of "radical" Islamist terrorists. Show me their expressed anger and saddness at the stonings, the beheadings, the killings of not only non-Muslims, but Muslims as well. the fact is that the only news that's made, the only outrage you hear, is when some dude draws a cartoon of the prophet and the moronic masses explode in anger and screams for blood. Hypocrisy is a funny thing. No one likes to be called out on it, especially when it's blatantly obvious to everyone around it.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  15. #335  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    I'd have to say a Mercedes. This one in particular.
    Ah, a follower of the Mennonite faith, I see.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  16. #336  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    One void of religious, comparative, highly subjective jibber jabber. Such as "Muslims are bad because my holy book is nicer then their holy book" (Naturally I'm paraphrasing).
    Really, where do you see this type of argument? I've seen a lot of criticism, and even downright hatred being thrown Islam's way. I haven't seen anything saying it's bad because *insert your religion here* is better.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html
  17. #337  
    Quote Originally Posted by ryleyinstl View Post
    One void of religious, comparative, highly subjective jibber jabber. Such as "Muslims are bad because my holy book is nicer then their holy book" (Naturally I'm paraphrasing).
    I didn't notice anything close to that in this thread (and I think I've read the whole thing). Was it the simple fact that I mentioned the Existence of God thread that might have caused your blood to boil? If that's the case, crack open a Michelob (or a Molson) and enjoy some of your city's (or your home country's) "finest".

    Note: I don't consider either of these beers as favorites of mine, but my my tastes really have no point in this thread. I'll drink any beer with Riley, or any Muslim who ever wishes to partake!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  18. #338  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    Ah, a follower of the Mennonite faith, I see.
    Actually before them, but I believe there is really only one faith - but our understanding of what that is is very clouded so many of us see it differently. In other words, there is either 0 or 1 Heaven (and probably 1 Hell).
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  19. #339  
    Americans can't help but take a Christian viewpoint. Despite the supposed division of church and state in this nation you have the government applying it's Christan ideals on gay marriage, stem cell research and many other issues....which I suppose is just fine given the voters asked for it.

    But when the same thing goes on to the point that American's want to overturn the rights and freedoms they all seem to hold so dear, everyone is jumping on board.....because a group of terrorists that killed 3000 people shared a related religious philosophy (read: not Christianity) with some folks who want a center of worship near ground zero.

    Build it, don't build it, I don't really care. It's not my country, I'm gone the moment it implodes, but if it was my birth nation I would extend the same rights to all it's citizens. If the home grown extremists win this Mosque battle to the point that the President or the supreme court (or whoever has the ability to override your civil liberties in this nation) actually stops it, guess who really loses? you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by morrison0880 View Post
    Really Ryley....
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  20. #340  
    Quote Originally Posted by sudoer View Post
    Actually before them, but I believe there is really only one faith - but our understanding of what that is is very clouded so many of us see it differently. In other words, there is either 0 or 1 Heaven (and probably 1 Hell).
    Well, it's not the Unitarians. If that's the one true faith I'll eat my hat.
    I don't understand the purpose of the line, I don't need to drink to have fun. Great, no one does. But why start a fire with flint and sticks when they've invented the lighter?

    Let's all give thanks to the app that started it all.
    http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ebrew-app.html

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