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  1. Micael's Avatar
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    #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    “When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.” Sinclair Lewis
    Ahh. Patriotic christians are fascists? So by extension, all muslims are guilty of radical islamic terrorism?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I don't know about Fox, and your diction needs a bit of work (spell check is your friend!), but I've been told that technically, Obama was born a muslim, as his father was a muslim. To me, it doesn't mean a hill a beans; but isn't it technically a correct statement to say he was born a muslim?
    No. People are not born anything. In fact they are born free from religion. Unfortunately not many of them are strong enough to stay that way and eventually yield to the indoctrination.
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  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Ahh. Patriotic christians are fascists? So by extension, all muslims are guilty of radical islamic terrorism?
    That's not what the statement says. The ones that have the fascist tendencies however are mostly (if not all) 'patriotic Christians'.

    This is a BIG difference.
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  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Ahh. Patriotic christians are fascists? So by extension, all muslims are guilty of radical islamic terrorism?
    Nice interpretation of something that was never said. I believe Sinclair Lewis was surmising that IF fascists took over the country, they would do it in the guise of patriotism (really nationalism) and religion.

    Oh....and there is precedent. Is it just me, or did Beck get some of his material from here?


    In public statements, especially at the beginning of his rule, H1tler frequently spoke positively about the Christian heritage of German culture, and his belief in the "Aryan" Christ. In a proclamation to the German Nation February 1, 1933 H1tler stated, "The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and co-operation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life."[7]
  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMarco View Post
    No. People are not born anything. In fact they are born free from religion. Unfortunately not many of them are strong enough to stay that way and eventually yield to the indoctrination.
    Ahh, you're speaking from your own "logical" position. I think that if you asked an imam, though, you'll get a different answer.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. Micael's Avatar
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    #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMarco View Post
    That's not what the statement says. The ones that have the fascist tendencies however are mostly (if not all) 'patriotic Christians'.

    This is a BIG difference.
    I think you missed my point.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  7. Micael's Avatar
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    #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Oh....and there is precedent. Is it just me, or did Beck get some of his material from here?
    I don't follow Beck, so you tell me. And as for your H1tler quote; fascism is simply another term for forceful dictatorship. H1tler was a socialist. So couldn't we update that quote to “When socialism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Ahh, you're speaking from your own "logical" position. I think that if you asked an imam, though, you'll get a different answer.
    It's not a "logical" (with quotes) position. It's the way things are. People are born as a blank slate. They're made / labeled / stamped / earmarked into things by their parents and their environment. I'm an atheist. Is my son 'born an atheist' because I am? Of course not. He's born as a blank slate and he can decide what he wants to be all by himself.
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  9. #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I think you missed my point.
    Explanation requested.
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  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Really? It's not your selection of 10%, it's your rationale for selecting 10%. But feel free to use God for political aims and the basis for fair taxation if you want. I'd rather base what's fair on what society determines its needs are.

    Oh...and by the way, I am just distraught that liberals no longer meet your definition of patriotic. GMAFB.
    oh my, this is where I check out of OT for a few weeks. Your misrepresentation for what I said is so bad on so many levels - there is no way to even try to respond. Not a single aspect of your response has any merit.

    let me restate my original post with 'ducks and bunnies' simplicity.

    the question was 'how much is reasonable for federal taxes' - meaning how much of what american earns is truly private property.

    answer: I have three responsibilities I see as equal:

    1) my family and future.
    2) charity and community
    3) citizenship and the costs thereof.

    so I consider my civic, social, and family responsibility to be of equal importance. They get paid first, and they get paid the most.

    yep, that makes me a fascist nut. Wow.
    Last edited by Workerb33; 08/31/2010 at 01:29 PM.
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I don't follow Beck, so you tell me. And as for your H1tler quote; fascism is simply another term for forceful dictatorship. H1tler was a socialist. So couldn't we update that quote to “When socialism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”?
    That's such a tired, outmoded argument. Fascism is actually not just another term for dictatorship. I suspect you probably know that. And yes, Adolf had socialist leanings in his early life...but certainly you aren't suggesting that Germany was not a fascist state? Are you?

    Fascism (pronounced /ˈfζʃɪzəm/) is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2][3][4] Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy.[5][6] Fascism was originally founded by Italian national syndicalists in World War I who combined left-wing and right-wing political views, but it gravitated to the political right in the early 1920s.[7][8] Scholars generally consider fascism to be on the far right of the conventional left-right political spectrum.[9][10][11][12][13][14]
  12. #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMarco View Post
    No. People are not born anything. In fact they are born free from religion. Unfortunately not many of them are strong enough to stay that way and eventually yield to the indoctrination.
    actually, if you asked a muslim claric he would say that he would consider children of muslims to be muslim (kinf like being born in britian made you a part of the church of england)

    not that any parent or child would think that way, including obama who clearly does not.

    but you missed the 'technically speaking' point he made and jumped right to name calling. I lnow you are smarter than that.

    peace out.
  13. Micael's Avatar
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    #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMarco View Post
    It's not a "logical" (with quotes) position. It's the way things are. People are born as a blank slate. They're made / labeled / stamped / earmarked into things by their parents and their environment. I'm an atheist. Is my son 'born an atheist' because I am? Of course not. He's born as a blank slate and he can decide what he wants to be all by himself.
    I'm not arguing with your logic, Marco. In fact, I agree. I'm trying to say that others would say that Obama was born a muslim. Mainly, other muslims.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  14. #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMarco View Post
    That's not what the statement says. The ones that have the fascist tendencies however are mostly (if not all) 'patriotic Christians'.

    This is a BIG difference.
    and because the quote came from a famous person, it cansidered to be as much a fact as the law of gravity. I see what ya did there.
  15. Micael's Avatar
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    #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    That's such a tired, outmoded argument. Fascism is actually not just another term for dictatorship. I suspect you probably know that. And yes, Adolf had socialist leanings in his early life...but certainly you aren't suggesting that Germany was not a fascist state? Are you?
    Italian... right. You're the one that invoked H1tler, a national socialist who had both left and right wing ideals. And "in his early life", my foot. He died a socialist.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I don't know about Fox, and your diction needs a bit of work (spell check is your friend!), but I've been told that technically, Obama was born a muslim, as his father was a muslim. To me, it doesn't mean a hill a beans; but isn't it technically a correct statement to say he was born a muslim?
    he was born to an atheist.

    "Although Obama Sr. was born into a Muslim and Christian family, he became an atheist as a young man."

    Barack Obama, Sr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


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  17. #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    oh my, this is where I check out of OT for a few weeks. Your misrepresentation for what I said is so ad on so many levels - there is no way to even try to respond. Not a single aspect of your response has any merit.

    let me restate my original post with 'ducks and bunnies' simplicity.

    the question was 'how much is reasonable for federal taxes' - meaning how much of what american earns is truly private property.

    answer: I have three responsibilities I see as equal:

    1) my family and future.
    2) charity and community
    3) citizenship and the costs thereof.

    so I consider my civic, social, and family responsibility to be of equal importance. They get paid first, and they get paid the most.

    yep, that makes me a fascist nut. Wow.
    Your "simplistic" restatement of what you said you said doesn't mention one little detail....the fact that you used tithing and giving to God as the basis for your tax law. To remind you specifically of what you said, in your own words, it was this:

    From every paycheck we give 10%, and save 10% right off the top. Why should the federal government have the expectation that they are entitled to more than God is?

    I wish a politician would run on that platform: 10% maximum tax with no deductions. If 10% is good enough for God, it's good enough for Americans!
    So it appears that you misrepresented what you said...not me.
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Really? It's not your selection of 10%, it's your rationale for selecting 10%. But feel free to use God for political aims and the basis for fair taxation if you want. I'd rather base what's fair on what society determines its needs are.

    Oh...and by the way, I am just distraught that liberals no longer meet your definition of patriotic. GMAFB.
    here is a prediction. I bet a fascist mod will soon close this thread because it is hopelessly of course, full of insults, and seems to be preventing reading with comprehension among posters.

    first, read the book before telling us that it won't work or be good for America.

    second, I said nothing about which side was patriotic or not. I just said it used to be a core principle just as public airwave were licensed for public beneft.

    you have just set a new world record for the sport of Conclusion Longjumping.

    that was a truly spectacular leap.
  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I don't follow Beck, so you tell me. And as for your H1tler quote; fascism is simply another term for forceful dictatorship. H1tler was a socialist. So couldn't we update that quote to “When socialism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”?
    again ...
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    #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    again ...
    What? Still not buying it? lol
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

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