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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    btw, the labels "left/right" and "conservative/liberal" don't help with clarity because they are used interchangeably.

    Historically "conservative" meant resistant to change (keep to tradition) and liberal meant promoting change (traditions were the problem).

    Given that this country has been on a steady march to social programs and entitlements for more than 50 years, one could argue that the "conservatives" are actually the ones demanding change - by changing back to the way things were before the New Deal.

    But, Left and Right don't necessarily line up with those - especially around the world.

    Someone should google the most oppressive regimes, dictators, and revolutions and see which are spoken of as "left" or "right"...
    left...right...conservative...liberal....I won't write a book on my stance...I will just keep it brief...I am one of the local Tea Party organizers...take from that what you will...on my Pre (gratuitous Palm Pre plug) and I am not up to typing a laundry list of my stances...and you?

    EDIT: And don't get me started about the "new deal"...have you read "The Forgotten Man" by Amity Sclaess?
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by ferriskeanu View Post
    left...right...conservative...liberal....I won't write a book on my stance...I will just keep it brief...I am one of the local Tea Party organizers...take from that what you will...on my Pre (gratuitous Palm Pre plug) and I am not up to typing a laundry list of my stances...and you?
    I wasn't asking for anyone's position. I was just pointing out how the meaning of the terms liberal and conservative seem to have changed to be opposite.

    When republicans were supporting the civil rights amendment, that was "liberal" by the classic definition of promoting change - as an example.

    and thanks for organizing. i respect anyone that gets involved rather than just sitting on the sidelines and complaining!
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    I wasn't asking for anyone's position. I was just pointing out how the meaning of the terms liberal and conservative seem to have changed to be opposite.

    When republicans were supporting the civil rights amendment, that was "liberal" by the classic definition of promoting change - as an example.

    and thanks for organizing. i respect anyone that gets involved rather than just sitting on the sidelines and complaining!
    Thank you...and sorry...I misunderstood where you were going...
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by ferriskeanu View Post
    left...right...conservative...liberal....I won't write a book on my stance...I will just keep it brief...I am one of the local Tea Party organizers...take from that what you will...on my Pre (gratuitous Palm Pre plug) and I am not up to typing a laundry list of my stances...and you?

    EDIT: And don't get me started about the "new deal"...have you read "The Forgotten Man" by Amity Sclaess?
    Figures.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Figures.
    behave, and be nice. your bias is showing.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Figures.
    Is this what your bringing to the discussion?
  7. groovy's Avatar
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    #67  
    Okay guys, let's keep it civil. Show some love for our fellow Pre owners.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Okay guys, let's keep it civil. Show some love for our fellow Pre owners.
    I think it's been pretty civil for the most part...I have been a member of PreCentral for a while now and have always stayed away from the "off-topic" section of the forum...I guess now I have tainted my "WebOS Sanctuary"...
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoochild View Post
    Idk, thats why I don't go to major news outlets to get my news. I avoid talking politics with my friends that watch fox, its impossible to reason with them.
    That's funny I feel the same way about people who get their news from CNN or MSNBC! In my opinion, you simply can't reason with those folks as it's either obama's way or you're just a racist....crazy people.
    PalmPilot, PalmIIIc, Treo 650, Pre, Pre 3, Nokia 1020, Lumia 950

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  10. groovy's Avatar
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    #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by ferriskeanu View Post
    I think it's been pretty civil for the most part...I have been a member of PreCentral for a while now and have always stayed away from the "off-topic" section of the forum...I guess now I have tainted my "WebOS Sanctuary"...
    No worries! I think you're right, it has been civil. Just like it to remain that way.
  11.    #71  
    I don't think there's any reason for this NOT to be civil.

    This discussion isn't supposed to be about whether left-wingers or right-wingers are right or wrong.

    This is supposed to be a discussion as to whether it should be acceptable (as it seems to be) for what are called "news orginizations" to slant toward their inclinations.

    Why are news organizations even allowed to contribute to campaigns?
    How can the public ever expect to get a fair news report about the party that didn't receive donations from that outlet?

    There's nothing wrong about having political shows. But it shouldn't be disguised as reporting news.

    News should be news. No spices added.
    Last edited by dbdoinit; 08/31/2010 at 03:45 AM.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by ferriskeanu View Post
    I think it's been pretty civil for the most part...I have been a member of PreCentral for a while now and have always stayed away from the "off-topic" section of the forum...I guess now I have tainted my "WebOS Sanctuary"...
    I agree. I generally try to stay out of OT, but this one 'seemed' harmless as dbd's threads usually are.
  13. #73  
    America never ceases to amaze me in this apartment. I agree, news should be neutral, independent and factual. There are indeed no networks that really fit this description.
    But there's more. The whole concept of 'lobbying' is still completely outrageous to me. In the Netherlands (where I'm from) any kind of mingling with politics, especially when huge sums of money are involved, would result in a HUGE political scandal. It's strictly forbidden to do anything like that. In America it seems to be the most normal thing in the world.

    Apparently you can 'buy' public opinion here if you throw enough money at it.

    Finally: There is no LEFT in America. Trust me, it's not there. Nothing like the European left anyway. There's center-right (democrats), right (GOP) and extreme right (tea party zealots).
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  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMarco View Post
    America never ceases to amaze me in this apartment. I agree, news should be neutral, independent and factual. There are indeed no networks that really fit this description.
    But there's more. The whole concept of 'lobbying' is still completely outrageous to me. In the Netherlands (where I'm from) any kind of mingling with politics, especially when huge sums of money are involved, would result in a HUGE political scandal. It's strictly forbidden to do anything like that. In America it seems to be the most normal thing in the world.

    Apparently you can 'buy' public opinion here if you throw enough money at it.

    Finally: There is no LEFT in America. Trust me, it's not there. Nothing like the European left anyway. There's center-right (democrats), right (GOP) and extreme right (tea party zealots).
    First time I ever heard Democrats as a whole called center-right...no doubt there are moderates in both parties...but why would you consider my opinion?...afterall you would probably call me a "tea party zealot"...
  15. #75  
    Sorry dude, with all due respect but an organization that engages in fearmongering, denying other people their rights and actively spreads lies is a zealot club to me. Maybe there are 'moderate teapartiers' that I don't know about but the organization as a whole is nothing but a hate club to me.

    And... yes trust me on the observation that Democrats are STILL center-right if you'd compare it to left and right in Europe and possibly other parts of the world.
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  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMarco View Post
    Sorry dude, with all due respect but an organization that engages in fearmongering, denying other people their rights and actively spreads lies is a zealot club to me. Maybe there are 'moderate teapartiers' that I don't know about but the organization as a whole is nothing but a hate club to me.

    And... yes trust me on the observation that Democrats are STILL center-right if you'd compare it to left and right in Europe and possibly other parts of the world.
    Your decription sure sounds like the Obama administration...care to share details on why you feel that description applys to the "tea party zealots" as you like to call them?...something more than soundbites would be nice...
  17. #77  
    - Actively spreading rumors about the president being a Muslim
    - Denying homosexuals the fundamental right to marry
    - Promoting religion-driven government
    - Actively opposing the First Amendment (only applying it to white Christians and labeling everything else as 'dangerous' or 'a threat to the United States')

    Need I go on?

    Extra note about the first point: Even if he WAS a Muslim there's absolutely nothing in American law or the constitution that would make him unsuitable as a president. Nothing. Zip.
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  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMarco View Post
    - Actively spreading rumors about the president being a Muslim
    - Denying homosexuals the fundamental right to marry
    - Promoting religion-driven government
    - Actively opposing the First Amendment (only applying it to white Christians and labeling everything else as 'dangerous' or 'a threat to the United States')

    Need I go on?

    Extra note about the first point: Even if he WAS a Muslim there's absolutely nothing in American law or the constitution that would make him unsuitable as a president. Nothing. Zip.
    Actively spreading rumors about Obama being a Muslim?...lol...personally I don't care if he is or isn't...and that is definitely painting with a broad brush to include everybody in the tea party...

    So I must be a racist as well aye?...being that "everybody" in the tea party is racist...hmmm...what if I told you my girlfriend is african american?...

    I can see that your ideaology is more emotional than rational...I have come to expect that from the left...
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by ferriskeanu View Post
    Actively spreading rumors about Obama being a Muslim?...lol...personally I don't care if he is or isn't...and that is definitely painting with a broad brush to include everybody in the tea party...

    So I must be a racist as well aye?...being that "everybody" in the tea party is racist...hmmm...what if I told you my girlfriend is african american?...

    I can see that your ideaology is more emotional than rational...I have come to expect that from the left...
    I said earlier:

    Maybe there are 'moderate teapartiers' that I don't know about...
    And I also started 'with all due respect' and I meant it. I did not mean to attack you personally.

    I don't think I labeled myself as 'left' in this conversation. Maybe I am, maybe I'm not but I didn't express myself as such.

    Finally, I do hope you know that the tea party is an 'astro turf' organization fed and funded by billionaires who use common fears and misunderstood principles among the general public to silently promote their own political agenda?

    The Brothers Koch: Rich, Political And Playing To Win : NPR

    Unless you're a multi-billionaire the result of the endgame, should the tea party 'win' isn't gonna be pretty for the majority of the people.
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  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMarco View Post
    Sorry dude, with all due respect but an organization that engages in fearmongering, denying other people their rights and actively spreads lies is a zealot club to me. Maybe there are 'moderate teapartiers' that I don't know about but the organization as a whole is nothing but a hate club to me.
    I could be wrong, but is there actually an "organization" called the "tea party". I thought the point was that they are locally organized for a particular gathering, and not affiliated with any other group.

    If so, you really can't make such sweeping generalities. Anyone know if there is actually a national "organization"?
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