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  1. #221  
    Someone needs to pull the pedestal out from under this Barye guy. He has more BS than Davidra.
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  2. #222  
    Quote Originally Posted by clemgrad85 View Post
    Someone needs to pull the pedestal out from under this Barye guy. He has more BS than Davidra.
    Considering the source, both of us should feel empowered and proud. I know I do. Nothing like a little knowledge of history to clarify things. You should try it sometime.
  3. #223  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I think I'm finally starting to realize that this race baiting by the Dems is nothing more than a tactic to take the discussion off of serious topics of concern like jobs, the economy, and the massive failures of the current administration.
    Please try not to lost perspective about the definition of failure (I know it's difficult for you). Obama's current approval rating is still twice what the previous administration's approval ratings were when Obama took office. Compared to the recent past, he's a resounding success.
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    #224  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Please try not to lost perspective about the definition of failure (I know it's difficult for you). Obama's current approval rating is still twice what the previous administration's approval ratings were when Obama took office. Compared to the recent past, he's a resounding success.
    Maybe. Pretty sad though that that's all you have to point to. Approval ratings. Everything else is a fail.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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    #225  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    so you are standing your ground that right=racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    yes -- racism is primarily a right wing pov.
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    In general I steer away for discussing racism and stuff like that. I do so because misunderstandings and mischaracterizations seem so readily to occur.

    And I don't recall any specific examples where you and I have debated those issues. If I'm wrong please provide me with a cite. (FWIW, folks often ascribe to me statements that I have not made).
    Jeez loueez, Barye. How about an example - all from the very same page? May I suggest a visit to a neurologist, and soon?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. #226  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Maybe. Pretty sad though that that's all you have to point to. Approval ratings. Everything else is a fail.
    Fail?
    Passing the most dramatic health care reform bill since 1964
    Getting the troops out of a mess they never should have gotten into with honor and on time
    Saving possibly millions of jobs (which interestingly enough the republicans who were so opposed to the stimulus now take credit for)
    Saving much of the US auto industry
    Turning around what was a disastrous job loss situation and at least stabilizing things

    Sorry. The only failures I see is the failure for the republican party to try and help the country by relying on stonewalling any bills, no matter how useful they might be.
  7. #227  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Jeez loueez, Barye. How about an example - all from the very same page? May I suggest a visit to a neurologist, and soon?
    May be a little OT, I admit, but nicely written:


    ``This is a moment,'' said Glenn Beck three months ago on his radio program, ``...that I think we reclaim the civil rights movement. It has been so distorted and so turned upside down. . . . We are on the right side of history. We are on the side of individual freedoms and liberties and damn it, we will reclaim the civil rights moment. We will take that movement, because we were the people that did it in the first place!''

    Beck was promoting his Restoring Honor rally, to be held Saturday at the Lincoln Memorial, 47 years to the day after Martin Luther King famously spoke there. You'll notice he didn't define the ``we'' he had in mind, but it seems reasonable to suppose Beck was speaking of people like himself: affluent middle-aged conservatives possessed of the ability to see socialism and communism in places where it somehow escapes the notice of others.


    But even by those standards, Glenn Beck's effrontery is monumental. Even by those standards, he goes too far. Beck was part of the ``we'' who founded the civil rights movement!? No. Here's who ``we'' is.
    ``We'' is Emmett Till, tied to a cotton gin fan in the murky waters of the Tallahatchie River. ``We'' is Rosa Parks telling the bus driver no. ``We'' is Diane Nash on a sleepless night waiting for missing Freedom Riders to check in. ``We'' is Charles Sherrod, husband of Shirley, gingerly testing desegregation compliance in an Albany, Ga., bus station. ``We'' is a sharecropper making his X on a form held by a white college student from the North. ``We'' is celebrities like Harry Belafonte, Marlon Brando and Pernell Roberts of Bonanza, lending their names, their wealth and their labor to the cause of freedom.
    ``We'' is Medgar Evers, Michael Schwerner, Jimmie Lee Jackson, James Reeb, Viola Liuzzo, Cynthia Wesley, Andrew Goodman, Denise McNair, James Chaney, Addie Mae Collins and Carole Robertson, shot, beaten and blown to death for that cause.
    ``We'' is Lyndon Johnson, building a legislative coalition of moderate Republicans and Democrats to defeat intransigent Southern Democratic conservatives and enshrine that cause into law.
    And ``we'' is Martin Luther King, giving voice and moral clarity to the cause -- and paying for it with his life.
    The we to which Glenn Beck belongs is the we that said no, the we that cried ``socialism!'' ``communism!'' ``tyranny!'' whenever black people and their allies cried freedom.
    The fatuous and dishonorable attempt to posit conservatives as the prime engine of civil rights depends for success on the ignorance of the American people. Sadly, as anyone who has ever watched a Jay Walking segment on The Tonight Show can attest, the American people have ignorance in plenitude.
    This, then, is to serve notice as Beck and his tea party faithful gather in Lincoln's shadow to claim the mantle of King: Some of us are not ignorant. Some of us remember. Some of us know very well who ``we'' is.
    And, who ``we'' is not.


    Read more: This is who `we' really is, Glenn - Leonard Pitts Jr. - MiamiHerald.com
  8.    #228  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Originally Posted by BARYE:.........And how would that be fair to those who have contributed to that discussion ??

    By that logic, if I began a thread where I wanted to discuss how the 2nd amendment absolutely protected gun ownership -- but asked for the thread to be closed after a consensus of opinion emerged that guns ought to be severely regulated.

    Just because someone initiated a discussion, it does not mean that they then control or direct how the discussions evolves.
    In public, no.

    In a forum where there are clear rules against derailing threads, YES.

    Remember what happened with my 9/11 thread? It got derailed into another trainyard.

    It's very easy for somebody to create their own thread to discuss what they want to discuss.
  9. #229  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Fail?
    Passing the most dramatic health care reform bill since 1964
    Getting the troops out of a mess they never should have gotten into with honor and on time
    Saving possibly millions of jobs (which interestingly enough the republicans who were so opposed to the stimulus now take credit for)
    Saving much of the US auto industry
    Turning around what was a disastrous job loss situation and at least stabilizing things

    Sorry. The only failures I see is the failure for the republican party to try and help the country by relying on stonewalling any bills, no matter how useful they might be.
    He wasn't talking about Obama, he was talking about Barye. Talk about "knee-jerk defensiveness". May I recommend Ritalin?
    Last edited by Workerb33; 09/01/2010 at 09:57 AM.
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  10. Micael's Avatar
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    #230  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    May be a little OT, I admit, but nicely written:
    Typical out of context smear garbage. It's not even close to what he said or meant. If you actually cared what he said, you'd know that already and wouldn't have wasted our time.

    Really David, you're better than this.... aren't you?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  11. #231  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Typical out of context smear garbage. It's not even close to what he said or meant. If you actually cared what he said, you'd know that already and wouldn't have wasted our time.

    Really David, you're better than this.... aren't you?
    evidently he is not.
  12. #232  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    He wasn't talking about Obama, he was talking about Barye. Talk about "knee-jerk defensiveness". May I recommend Ritalin?
    Honestly, I am concerned about your attentiveness. This was Micael's post:

    Maybe. Pretty sad though that that's all you have to point to. Approval ratings. Everything else is a fail.
    He was not referring to Barye, he was referring to Obama. Please....before you suggest ritalin for someone else, take a quick look in your drinking water.
  13. #233  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Typical out of context smear garbage. It's not even close to what he said or meant. If you actually cared what he said, you'd know that already and wouldn't have wasted our time.

    Really David, you're better than this.... aren't you?
    I heard exactly what he said. You need to consider stepping back and considering how it sounded to people who see Beck for what he is...a charlatan that was shown to be faking crying before a show, and a self-aggrandizing uneducated manipulator with no credence with anyone who has a modicum of judgment. I think it mirrors exactly what he "said or meant". But I'd be glad to hear a different interpretation from one of his minions....like you.
  14. #234  
    Micael, were you suggesting that Barye's posts were a "fail" or were you attacking obama?
  15. #235  
    Instead of "where's waldo" let's play "find the obama reference" in Barye's ridiculous attempt to establish that "right" and "racists" are synonymous.

    failure to do so in 60 seconds may result in elimination from the game.

    Micael wrote:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Micael
    You have absolutely nothing to back that up that would prove it as even being remotely factual.

    Over the last few times we've touched on this subject, I've given numerous examples of how you're totally and utterly wrong, and you just dance along and ignore me.

    Please take the blinders off, Barye. Some of the biggest bigots on the planet are Democrats, with their so-called 'reverse racism' practices (quota's anyone?).

    I think I'm finally starting to realize that this race baiting by the Dems is nothing more than a tactic to take the discussion off of serious topics of concern like jobs, the economy, and the massive failures of the current administration.


    Commentary: simply associating his assessment that this is "race bating" with a generall tendancy he has observed as a political tactic by the Democrat party and the Democrat president. No mention of success, failure, polls, or accomplishments. Just one man's opinion on political tactics.


    To which Barye responded:

    In general I steer away for discussing racism and stuff like that. I do so because misunderstandings and mischaracterizations seem so readily to occur.

    And I don't recall any specific examples where you and I have debated those issues. If I'm wrong please provide me with a cite. (FWIW, folks often ascribe to me statements that I have not made).

    Without delving into the background or merits of any of these facts, I will just try and list examples that support racism as a right wing phenomenon:

    In america opposition to voting rights, equal rights, fair housing, inter racial marriage, and anti-discrimination statutes on behalf of oppressed minorities (chiefly black americans) was lead by a slew of right wing white groups including the KKK, the John Birch Society, and average white christian folks who later formed the backbone of the reliably republican south.

    These same groups had at various times in history discriminated against Jews, Catholics, Mormons, and Irish.

    Nativist groups -- like the "No Nothing Party" Party (that I made reference to much earlier in the thread in regard to Beck's Washington Monument homi-lie) were hostile to most any immigrant group they considered non-native.

    In Germany the Nazzis -- the very embodiment of a right wing group -- actively persecuted Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Gays, Russians, Blacks, and Serbs.

    In the former Yugoslavia, both Serbs and Croats right wing groups actively persecuted Bosnians, Moslems, and Albanians.

    In Russia right wing groups actively persecute Chechens, Moslems, and Jews.


    I know you will again protest that the Naazis were not rightists -- that somehow because they have a meaningless word in their name, they're really "socialists".

    Baloney.

    I'm sorry to have to break the news to you, but you might be surprised to learn that Apple's computers are not actually manufactured using apples.

    This phony line of crap has been pushed (along with the "progressivism" is a form of tyranny) by Beck and his No-Nothing cadre during the last couple of years in an attempt to disassociate themselves from Fascism and their unsavory roots -- while disparaging the meaning of leftist. The right's shrewd manipulation of language, words, and history can be seen in how the term "liberal" was successfully transformed by them from a point of pride into a curse.
    __________________


    Comment: After several more silly posts, Micael offered his opinion that Barye's arguments = fail.

    Now, find the Obama attack in 3 - 2 - 1... go!
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    #236  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I heard exactly what he said. You need to consider stepping back and considering how it sounded to people who see Beck for what he is...a charlatan that was shown to be faking crying before a show, and a self-aggrandizing uneducated manipulator with no credence with anyone who has a modicum of judgment. I think it mirrors exactly what he "said or meant". But I'd be glad to hear a different interpretation from one of his minions....like you.
    You mean how it sounds to people listening to people like you, who blatantly take his words out of context and spin it to be the most divisive and negative as possible?

    I suggest that you check with one of his minions, David, if you're confused by what he said. You may want to do that before you climb up on your soap box, spreading misinformation.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. #237  
    Micael, did you ever identify yourself as a Glenn Beck follower? I don't recall you saying anything like that.

    Personally I think he is a nut and I'm trying to figure out how he is trying to link Christianity with Mormonism.

    But, rather than leaping to conclusions I'm going to read up on what Mormons believe. I don't recall there being much in common with traditional Christian doctrine, but I'll learn more before I spout off.

    We have plenty of conclusion jumpers here already.
  18. #238  
    Quote:Originally Posted by Workerb33
    so you are standing your ground that right=racist.

    Quote:Originally Posted by BARYE
    yes -- racism is primarily a right wing pov.

    Quote:Originally Posted by BARYE
    In general I steer away for discussing racism and stuff like that. I do so because misunderstandings and mischaracterizations seem so readily to occur.

    And I don't recall any specific examples where you and I have debated those issues. If I'm wrong please provide me with a cite. (FWIW, folks often ascribe to me statements that I have not made).


    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Jeez loueez, Barye. How about an example - all from the very same page? May I suggest a visit to a neurologist, and soon?

    (first, I'm not that available to participate today)

    you are attempting to construe from quoting someone else's statement, support for your belief that you and I have previously debated racism ???

    That is your cite ???
    how does quoting someone else support your belief that I have debated racism previously with you ??

    If I tell dbd that micael thinks that BARYE is the singularity at the center of the universe -- can davidra then use that as supporting evidence that you believe that BARYE is the singularity at the center of the universe ??

    Then you quote the preamble to my response to your challenge.

    Weird. That is how you support your case ???

    Perhaps rather than "suggest a visit to a neurologist" for you -- I would recommend an extended stay in a challenging academic environment.

    Nevertheless -- in reply to your and workerb33's quest to learn why racism is associated with the right, I presented (from memory) a laundry list of supporting examples.

    If what I have listed is not factual I suggest challenging my facts -- and not offering unresponsive argument and insults.
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/01/2010 at 11:35 AM.
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  19. #239  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    Micael, did you ever identify yourself as a Glenn Beck follower? I don't recall you saying anything like that.

    Personally I think he is a nut and I'm trying to figure out how he is trying to link Christianity with Mormonism.

    But, rather than leaping to conclusions I'm going to read up on what Mormons believe. I don't recall there being much in common with traditional Christian doctrine, but I'll learn more before I spout off.

    We have plenty of conclusion jumpers here already.
    He thinks Mormonism is in no way linked to Christianity!!!

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    #240  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    If what I have listed is not factual I suggest challenging my facts -- and not offering unresponsive argument and insults.
    Whoops! If I came off as insulting, I apologize. I was trying for slightly snarky. I actually hold you in high esteem!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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