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  1.    #201  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    dbd, if you want sedate on topic threads, stop starting ones with volatile subjects! lol

    You're famous for skirting volatility and then acting surprised when we take the bait and roll off on these predictable tangents!
    Damn.
    You might actually know me better than my wife.


    lol ltm ltm
  2. #202  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I wasn't arguing your point. Mine were simply anedotal comments. Sorry of they were off-point.
    oh, I was agreeing with you and emphasising what you said about needing context and that racism isn't a left/right issue. You da man!
  3. #203  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    the point is that they were on the left aisle while holding those positions. And that's because the words right and racist are not and never have been synonyms.
    who -- who of those were on the left ???

    By definition an anti-civil rights position was rightist. Sessions and all the southern Democrats who switched parties genuinely opposed civil rights.

    Gore senior, Fullbright (some others) were exceptions. Gore was in some ways a closet liberal -- and his civil rights votes did not reflect his personal views, but rather those of his constituents.

    Fullbright -- who courageously opposed the Viet Nam war, understood that his Arkansas voters could overlook "liberal" foreign policy opinions, but not liberalism on civil rights.

    Your again routinely ascribing any importance to names or aisle positions is baffling to me.
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  4. #204  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post

    Gawd I love your posts Barye! lol
    nobody can love BARYE's posts ...

    ... more than BARYE
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  5. #205  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    who -- who of those were on the left ???

    By definition an anti-civil rights position was rightist. Sessions and all the southern Democrats who switched parties genuinely opposed civil rights.

    Gore senior, Fullbright (some others) were exceptions. Gore was in some ways a closet liberal -- and his civil rights votes did not reflect his personal views, but rather those of his constituents.

    Fullbright -- who courageously opposed the Viet Nam war, understood that his Arkansas voters could overlook "liberal" foreign policy opinions, but not liberalism on civil rights.

    Your again routinely ascribing any importance to names or aisle positions is baffling to me.
    assuming left = democrat, the answer is ALL OF THEM. Geesh.

    so you are standing your ground that right=racist. That's the dumbest thing I've heard. What other hard equivalents do you have?

    conservative = bitter
    libertarian = hater

    I'm gonna have to jest stay the heck out of OT. I can get better logic talking to little kids in the neighborhood.
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  6. #206  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    assuming left = democrat, the answer is ALL OF THEM. Geesh.

    so you are standing your ground that right=racist. That's the dumbest thing I've heard. What other hard equivalents do you have?

    conservative = bitter
    libertarian = hater

    I'm gonna have to jest stay the heck out of OT. I can get better logic talking to little kids in the neighborhood.

    yes -- racism is primarily a right wing pov. But lefties and righties can simultaneously hold a variety of seemingly contradictory opinions as well.

    Ted Olson -- usually a right wing advocate -- has worked on behalf of Gay marriage rights. Senator Graham has opposed the Guitanimo detention center and waterboarding.

    I oppose illegal immigration.

    Few Intelligent folks have views that line up perfectly with GOP talking points, though woe be the GOP politician that admits to that.

    The kids in your neighborhood must be very very smart !!
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  7. #207  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post

    assuming left = democrat, the answer is ALL OF THEM. Geesh...
    again -- you seem fixated on names, on titles.

    They mean NOTHING.

    If you called your self a George Wallace Democrat, would that have made you a liberal in 1965 ????????
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  8. #208  
    Oh My. you just need to change professions. I've never heard such a ridiculously sweeping freaking generality. Hey, that's the very definition of bigotry, sweeping generalizations of value based on something not related. Barye is a right winger because right wingers are bigots!!

    I'm sure you would consider me right wing, so you are calling me a racist just as davidra called me a fascist.

    Let me just say that I'd be banned for what I want to type next.

    and another one lands on my "ignore" list. It's a very elite list, populated by a few world-class idiots. congratulations.
  9. #209  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    again -- you seem fixated on names, on titles.

    They mean NOTHING.

    If you called your self a George Wallace Democrat, would that have made you a liberal in 1965 ????????
    You couldn't stay on the point if someone paid you. if they mean nothing, why the do you keep trying to afix labels and categorize? because it's not meaningless.

    and you are a biased journalist. other things too.
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  10. #210  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    Oh My. you just need to change professions. I've never heard such a ridiculously sweeping freaking generality. Hey, that's the very definition of bigotry. Barye is a right winger!

    I'm sure you would consider me right wing, so you are calling me a racist just as davidra called me a fascist.

    Let me just say that I'd be banned for what I want to type next.

    and another one lands on my "ignore" list. It's a very elite list, populated by a few world-class idiots. congratulations.
    you are either living in a side dimension or you are reading someone else's posts.

    Where --- WHERE -- did I or anyone call you a racist ????
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  11. #211  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    you are either living in a side dimension or you are reading someone else's posts.

    Where --- WHERE -- did I or anyone call you a racist ????
    me = conservative = right = racist.

    you = liberal = left = colorblind/compassionate/etc.

    it's your math, not mine. ridiculous.
    Last edited by Workerb33; 08/31/2010 at 05:31 PM.
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  12. #212  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    assuming left = democrat, the answer is ALL OF THEM. Geesh.

    so you are standing your ground that right=racist. That's the dumbest thing I've heard. What other hard equivalents do you have?

    conservative = bitter
    libertarian = hater

    I'm gonna have to jest stay the heck out of OT. I can get better logic talking to little kids in the neighborhood.
    The Dixiecrats were far from being left wing. True, they were opposed to big business, and supported the white lower middle class, which included most of their constituency. And there was no republican party in the south until many of the Dixiecrats changed parties and rallied around race as an issue. The republican party was far from being racist before those days. They were the party of big business, including such radicals as Nelson Rockefeller, Margaret Chase Smith, Eisenhower, Henry Cabot Lodge....people who would be drummed out of the republican party immediately today. Then the democratic party got into civil rights, with Truman integrating the armed services. That was the death knell of the democratic party in the south, and the republican party quickly moved in to that vacuum, becoming the de facto anti-integration party and getting rid of the moderates. The republican party today bears little resemblance to the republican party when I was growing up. I don't much care whether you call being anti-civil rights as being racist or not. I do. And that was the platform that gave the republican party it's right wing talking points ever since. I would love to see an up or down vote by southern republicans right now on a civil rights law. Any bets? They've just moved their negative attitudes onto other minorities...gays, Muslims, Mexicans...and that's why deserve any stereotypical comments about racism. No matter what you call it, it remains a philosophy of hatred. They will cover it up by saying "oh, we're only against illegal immigration". Sorry, I don't believe them. I hear what they say when it's not on the record. Now are all republicans like that? No, in fact most on this board aren't. But most on this board actually believe that Obama was elected president and deserves the office. That's apparently not true of the tea party, who just can't get over the fact that Obama won, don't believe he's an American, don't believe he's a Christian, and are just plain p1ssed that he won...and they are out in droves demonstrating it. And the republican party is kissing their heinies like mad. That's the way I see it. I grew up under Eisenhower, and always considered myself a republican...until I figured out what the "modern" republican party stood for. I would still support moderates in the republican party, if they existed. I'm probably going to vote for an independent in my own state for governor. But the republican party has no policies that appeal to me. You get to determine your own philosophy, thankfully, but I've been around much longer than most of you and I've seen it change with my own eyes. And it has been to the detriment of the country. Barye has it nailed...the problem is a lack of intelligent thought processes, regardless of party affiliation.
    Last edited by davidra; 08/31/2010 at 05:42 PM.
  13. #213  
    Religion and politics: a very bad mixture.


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  14. #214  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeisnowonfire View Post
    Religion and politics: a very bad mixture.
    Hear, hear!

    +100
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  15. #215  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMarco View Post
    Hear, hear!

    +100
    There, there!
  16. #216  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    I'm sure you would consider me right wing, so you are calling me a racist just as davidra called me a fascist.
    Davidra calls everyone names....that's just his style. I think when he can't win an arguement, he calls you a name and moves on. I can't even remember all the labels he has pinned on me, lol.
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  17. #217  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    But most on this board actually believe that Obama was elected president and deserves the office.
    Oh I believe he was elected President, but now he has proven after 18 months that he didn't deserve it! It's amazing how many people now say they can't believe they voted for him.
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    #218  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    yes -- racism is primarily a right wing pov.
    You have absolutely nothing to back that up that would prove it as even being remotely factual.

    Over the last few times we've touched on this subject, I've given numerous examples of how you're totally and utterly wrong, and you just dance along and ignore me.

    Please take the blinders off, Barye. Some of the biggest bigots on the planet are Democrats, with their so-called 'reverse racism' practices (quota's anyone?).

    I think I'm finally starting to realize that this race baiting by the Dems is nothing more than a tactic to take the discussion off of serious topics of concern like jobs, the economy, and the massive failures of the current administration.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  19. #219  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    You have absolutely nothing to back that up that would prove it as even being remotely factual.

    Over the last few times we've touched on this subject, I've given numerous examples of how you're totally and utterly wrong, and you just dance along and ignore me.

    Please take the blinders off, Barye. Some of the biggest bigots on the planet are Democrats, with their so-called 'reverse racism' practices (quota's anyone?).

    I think I'm finally starting to realize that this race baiting by the Dems is nothing more than a tactic to take the discussion off of serious topics of concern like jobs, the economy, and the massive failures of the current administration.
    In general I steer away for discussing racism and stuff like that. I do so because misunderstandings and mischaracterizations seem so readily to occur.

    And I don't recall any specific examples where you and I have debated those issues. If I'm wrong please provide me with a cite. (FWIW, folks often ascribe to me statements that I have not made).


    Without delving into the background or merits of any of these facts, I will just try and list examples that support racism as a right wing phenomenon:

    In america opposition to voting rights, equal rights, fair housing, inter racial marriage, and anti-discrimination statutes on behalf of oppressed minorities (chiefly black americans) was lead by a slew of right wing white groups including the KKK, the John Birch Society, and average white christian folks who later formed the backbone of the reliably republican south.

    These same groups had at various times in history discriminated against Jews, Catholics, Mormons, and Irish.

    Nativist groups -- like the "No Nothing Party" Party (that I made reference to much earlier in the thread in regard to Beck's Washington Monument homi-lie) were hostile to most any immigrant group they considered non-native.

    In Germany the Nazzis -- the very embodiment of a right wing group -- actively persecuted Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Gays, Russians, Blacks, and Serbs.

    In the former Yugoslavia, both Serbs and Croats right wing groups actively persecuted Bosnians, Moslems, and Albanians.

    In Russia right wing groups actively persecute Chechens, Moslems, and Jews.


    I know you will again protest that the Naazis were not rightists -- that somehow because they have a meaningless word in their name, they're really "socialists".

    Baloney.

    I'm sorry to have to break the news to you, but you might be surprised to learn that Apple's computers are not actually manufactured using apples.

    This phony line of crap has been pushed (along with the "progressivism" is a form of tyranny) by Beck and his No-Nothing cadre during the last couple of years in an attempt to disassociate themselves from Fascism and their unsavory roots -- while disparaging the meaning of leftist. The right's shrewd manipulation of language, words, and history can be seen in how the term "liberal" was successfully transformed by them from a point of pride into a curse.
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/01/2010 at 05:48 AM.
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  20. #220  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    lack of knowledge of history and plain ignorance makes me angry even among common folk -- it completely infuriates me when it comes from someone who represents them self as a leader, a "teacher".

    I only heard a fraction of Beck's words -- but I caught a homily he told about the construction of the Washington Monument.

    No doubt most who heard him describe how its construction was suspended because of the Civil War accepted that he knew what he was talking about.



    "...Construction continued until 1854, when donations ran out. The next year, Congress voted to appropriate $200,000 to continue the work but rescinded before the money could be spent. This reversal came because of a new policy the society had adopted in 1849. ...It was just one commemorative stone that started the events that stopped the Congressional appropriation and ultimately construction altogether. In the early 1850s, Pope Pius IX contributed a block of marble. In March 1854, members of the anti-Catholic, nativist American Party—better known as the "Know-Nothings"—stole the Pope's stone as a protest and supposedly threw it into the Potomac (it was replaced in 1982). Then, in order to make sure the monument fit the definition of "American" at that time, the Know-Nothings conducted an election so they could take over the entire society". Congress immediately rescinded its $200,000 contribution.

    The Know-Nothings retained control of the society until 1858, adding 13 courses of masonry to the monument—all of which was of such poor quality it was later removed. Unable to collect enough money to finish work, they increasingly lost public support. The Know-Nothings eventually gave up and returned all records to the original society, but the stoppage in construction continued into, then after, the Civil War.

    Interest in the monument grew after the Civil War ended. Engineers studied the foundation several times to see whether it remained strong enough. In 1876, the Centennial of the Declaration of Independence, Congress agreed to appropriate another $200,000 to resume construction.[14] The monument, which had stood for nearly 20 years at less than one-third of its proposed height, now seemed ready for completion..."

    Simultaneous with Beck's bogus homi-lie Saturday, I told my colleague that Beck was full of crap.

    Tonight's Countdown program (unconnected with BARYE) repeated nearly verbatim what I wrote a couple of days ago --

    The relevant segment:

    (Beck makes up homily about the Washington Monument)

    .
    Last edited by BARYE; 09/01/2010 at 03:02 AM.
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