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  1.    #1  
    Hi all,

    Greed or great idea?

    Take care,

    jay


    Group Takes Exception With Proposed FM Tuner Mandate
    Aug 19, 2010

    -By Katy Bachman

    Group Takes Exception With Proposed FM Tuner Mandate

    As broadcasters and the recording industry attempt to hammer out an agreement to set royalty fees for music played on the radio, one area of compromise—to mandate FM tuners in cell phones—has struck a nerve. The Consumer Electronics Association, which represents consumer electronics companies that manufacture cell phones and portable devices, would like to kill the idea, calling it "the height of absurdity."

    The National Association of Broadcasters and the Recording Industry Association of America, which has been pushing for performance royalties on music airplay, set out the FM tuner idea as part of a broader framework for a compromise bill. Persuading Congress to mandate FM tuners in cell phones would give both radio stations and music artists’ access to larger audiences and consumers another choice.

    The CEA pushed back hard on the scheme. "Forced inclusion of an additional antenna, processor and radio receiver will compromise features that consumers truly desire, such as long battery life and light weight. Reducing product performance, mandating inclusion of features consumers don't want, and replacing product innovation by companies like Amazon, Apple, Motorola and HP-Palm with government design mandates are not in our national interest," said Gary Shapiro, president and CEO of the CEA in a statement.
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  2. #2  
    that's the dumbest idea ever. forcing phone makers to include an fm radio? geesh. That would never hold up in court.

    Especially when we can just stream it over the internet with RadioTime and Pandora...
  3. #3  
    Greed!...
  4. #4  
    Htc phones already have fm radios built in especially the Android devices.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by kinster02 View Post
    Htc phones already have fm radios built in especially the Android devices.
    That's great, but it isn't required by law. The government can't mandate something like that just so someone can charge a royalty...
  6. #6  
    if required it would be a tiny addition to the chipset -- and an invisible cost in power, price, and size.

    A no brainer -- a win win for everyone.


    Late breaking news:

    Govt mandates seat belts and catalytic converters on cars ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post


    Late breaking news:

    Govt mandates seat belts and catalytic converters on cars ...
    even later breaking news. FM radios in cell phones found to be effective safety mechanisms, providing protection in a collision and reducing emissions...

    You can't seriously see ANY similarity between forcing something so record labels can collect royalties vs safety and environmental measures that save lives... REALLY?
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    even later breaking news. FM radios in cell phones found to be effective safety mechanisms, providing protection in a collision and reducing emissions...

    You can't seriously see ANY similarity between forcing something so record labels can collect royalties vs safety and environmental measures that save lives... REALLY?
    I don't see (no sarcasm intended !) how the inclusion of a FM tuner in the chipset compels royalties to publishers, per se.

    Is the argument thats being made that cell phones listening to FM would be able to track what songs were heard and force license fees for that music ??

    If true that's a little awkward -- but radio stations now must pay for their music usage -- wouldn't this just enable a more accurate accounting ?
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE View Post
    I don't see (no sarcasm intended !) how the inclusion of a FM tuner in the chipset compels royalties to publishers, per se.

    Is the argument thats being made that cell phones listening to FM would be able to track what songs were heard and force license fees for that music ??

    If true that's a little awkward -- but radio stations now must pay for their music usage -- wouldn't this just enable a more accurate accounting ?
    If you read the article, royalty creation is the point of the article. I don't minding having an FM radio, but not mandated such that my phone costs more and the govt is deeper into our lives than ever.

    This would have no impact on "accurate accounting". BTW, If they had their way, the cost would be so high that stations couldn't afford to stay in business. Their last trick was to try to get the same royalty structure from web-based (free) radio stations. None of them could survive if that ever happens.... if anything kills a technology trend, it's always greed.

    And you still need to explain your attempt to draw analogy between life and environment saving mandates and an FM radio
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert View Post

    ...The National Association of Broadcasters and the Recording Industry Association of America, which has been pushing for performance royalties on music airplay, set out the FM tuner idea as part of a broader framework for a compromise bill. Persuading Congress to mandate FM tuners in cell phones would give both radio stations and music artists’ access to larger audiences and consumers another choice.

    The CEA pushed back hard on the scheme. "Forced inclusion of an additional antenna, processor and radio receiver will compromise features that consumers truly desire, such as long battery life and light weight....

    Emphasis mine. PS, his comment of "choice" is simply you'd have the "choice" of one more FM radio you could listen to, as if you don't already have them everywhere, and as if you can't get those stations from the internet on most smartphones... geesh.
    Run your ad here... reach thousands daily...



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  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    If you read the article, royalty creation is the point of the article. I don't minding having an FM radio, but not mandated such that my phone costs more and the govt is deeper into our lives than ever.

    This would have no impact on "accurate accounting". BTW, If they had their way, the cost would be so high that stations couldn't afford to stay in business. Their last trick was to try to get the same royalty structure from web-based (free) radio stations. None of them could survive if that ever happens.... if anything kills a technology trend, it's always greed.

    And you still need to explain your attempt to draw analogy between life and environment saving mandates and an FM radio
    listening to Pandora means data usage -- FM does not.

    I think this really is about FM radio stations trying to stay relevant -- and the music industry trying to stay in business.

    (the government mandates stuff all the time -- minimum standards for AC, disclosure requirements on loans and credit cards, HDTV standards...

    Govt. mandates happen constantly to achieve a greater good at minimum cost because all manufacturers participate.)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  12. #12  
    No, the FM stations are also broadcasting through the internet. They are plenty relevent. This is about the music industry wanting to charge the stations based on calculating some percentage of FM radios being in use, so if they increase the denominator (population of radios) they increase the numerator (royalties).

    The music business is very profitable. They would be less profitable if they drove all the FM stations out of business. You really need to read up on the many proposals the music industry has made over the years, and the catastrophic impact they would have had.

    Every mandate example up there has to do with safety. The HD spec has to do with use of public airwaves which also has safety implications.

    Not a single one has to do with making sure some private enterprise gets to collect more royalties. You have made my point.
  13. #13  
    FM Radios be embedded in all digital devices. this is what the RIAA wants... why plain and simple more money

    It appears that the RIAA and broadcasters (NAB) have joined forces to push Congress to create laws that require FM Radios be embedded in all digital devices, including smartphones, MP3 players, and theoretically e-readers. Of course, the move is yet another attempt to prop up the dying recording business models of old, and to sell the idea they're comparing their push to the FCC mandated shift to digital television (which aren't related in the slightest). It gets worse, given that as Techdirt notes, the agreement between the RIAA and NAB would include NAB's support for a "performance rights tax on radio," which would force radio stations to pay performers for advertising and promoting their music.

    This is just wrong. Radio Station already pay to play the music... Why should they have to pay a performance Tax also?


    Funny thing is FM Radio is a dying idea. More is the digital age. I don't even turn on my radio in my car ...ever... why because most of the time it's plain shotty music.
    In a world of droid, Pre does it better.

    Shouldn't we treat this world like the Garden of Eden and avoid the apple at all costs?
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    No, the FM stations are also broadcasting through the internet. They are plenty relevent. This is about the music industry wanting to charge the stations based on calculating some percentage of FM radios being in use, so if they increase the denominator (population of radios) they increase the numerator (royalties).

    The music business is very profitable. They would be less profitable if they drove all the FM stations out of business. You really need to read up on the many proposals the music industry has made over the years, and the catastrophic impact they would have had.

    Every mandate example up there has to do with safety. The HD spec has to do with use of public airwaves which also has safety implications.

    Not a single one has to do with making sure some private enterprise gets to collect more royalties. You have made my point.
    Are FM radio stations supporting or opposing this ??

    I'm guessing that they would like their universe of potential ota listeners to be enlarged.

    Obviously FM can be delivered as data via the intertubes -- but if you're not on an all you can eat plan, that consumes data. An ota radio brings free radio listening options to more users -- benefiting FM radio stations, etc.

    I have not read the the implications that you're seeing -- so I'll withhold weighing in on your view that this is a power grab by the music industry. Get me a quote and a link.

    To argue that the mandate defining HDTV standards -- 720p, 1080i, 1080p -- was an issue of public safety is a high definition stretch, one not suitable for family audiences.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  15. #15  
    communication is a crucial part of national defense. Emergency breoadcasts are part of that plan. It's not THE reason for FCC TV standards, but part of it.

    the bigger part is that spectrum is 'owned' by the citizens, all though that tradition has faded over the years.

    controlling what trsvels across a specific channel ensures that each use doesn't interfer with others. So each type of device (tv, rado, etc has to stay within it's spectrum and behave according to the same standards. It isn't specifically resolution or codec (although they are important to protecting our wallets).

    protect my walet. Protect people in my car. Protect the environment.

    forcing more fm receivers into the world has nothing in common with those. The article is clear that this is purely to expand revenue for broadcasters and labels. It would never survive a constitutional challenge if it were 'mandateda' as they are proposing.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    communication is a crucial part of national defense. Emergency breoadcasts are part of that plan. It's not THE reason for FCC TV standards, but part of it.

    the bigger part is that spectrum is 'owned' by the citizens, all though that tradition has faded over the years.

    controlling what trsvels across a specific channel ensures that each use doesn't interfer with others. So each type of device (tv, rado, etc has to stay within it's spectrum and behave according to the same standards. It isn't specifically resolution or codec (although they are important to protecting our wallets).

    protect my walet. Protect people in my car. Protect the environment.

    forcing more fm receivers into the world has nothing in common with those. The article is clear that this is purely to expand revenue for broadcasters and labels. It would never survive a constitutional challenge if it were 'mandateda' as they are proposing.

    perhaps specifically with you in mind, I recall one of the rationales for the FM radios was for public safety: in an emergency public information could be broadcast and disseminated more easily using ota radio

    (your acrobatics on behalf of HDTV codecs remains weak)
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/22/2010 at 03:39 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  17. #17  
    Count how many FM radios you already have. Do you really need another?

    I'd posit almost every car has an FM radio. Most alarm clocks have an FM radio. Some cable TV systems have FM radio. I have three small FM radios. You can buy a small - in the ear - FM Radio for a couple of dollars.

    I think we are well covered with FM radios already. This is just another greedy attempt to resurect a dying industry. There is no public emergency threat.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by SFHandyman View Post
    Count how many FM radios you already have. Do you really need another?

    I'd posit almost every car has an FM radio. Most alarm clocks have an FM radio. Some cable TV systems have FM radio. I have three small FM radios. You can buy a small - in the ear - FM Radio for a couple of dollars.

    I think we are well covered with FM radios already. This is just another greedy attempt to resurect a dying industry. There is no public emergency threat.
    We're talking about no more than a dollar per handset -- an invisible cost to the end user.

    This has significant potential benefit to listeners of FM radio (especially those not on an unlimited data plan, not using a smartphone), FM stations themselves, and musicians.

    At no cost.

    The music compensation rates are reasonable -- non-profit and low revenue stations are only hit for $100. Big music stations are going to pay 1% of their revenue.

    In an emergency cell towers are overloaded and unusable. (maybe you've heard about something that happened on 9/11 ??) FM radio news and information would be much more robust in a national emergency environment.

    Who is being hurt by this -- are you all enraged by the <$1.00 the OEM is going to put out for a FM chipset ??


    Deal Would Mandate FM Radios In Cell Phones

    Compromise agreement between National Association of Broadcasters and RIAA headed to Congress.

    By W. David Gardner, InformationWeek
    Aug. 23, 2010

    There may be an FM radio in your next cell phone whether you want it or not. The National Association of Broadcasters is lobbying Congress to stipulate that FM radio technology be included in future cell phones.

    In exchange, the NAB has agreed that member stations would pay about $100 million in so-called performance fees to music labels and artists. Radio stations would be required to pay performance royalties on a tiered schedule with larger commercial stations paying more than smaller and non-profit stations.

    The agreement is part of a compromise between the NAB and the Recording Industry Association of America, which will take the deal to legislators mulling changes to the laws that govern the music and radio industries.

    Under the proposal, non-profit stations and small commercial stations with less than $50,000 in annual revenue would pay $100 or 1% of revenue, whichever is the lesser amount. On the other end of the spectrum, stations with more than $1.25 million in annual revenue would pay 1% of their revenue.

    The fees haven’t been approved yet and there is no guarantee the proposal will pass in this session of Congress, or even in any session.

    “It is important to note that stations with incidental music use – news, talk and sports radio – would not pay for music,” said NAB spokesman Dennis Wharton earlier this month in a statement.

    “Additionally, religious services – not religious music – would be exempt from music fees.” Broadcasters have also argued that FM radio access on cell phones would have public safety benefits by alerting and informing citizens in crisis situations.

    Online radio already is required to pay performance fees and many online music providers have said the fees caused them to abandon their service or sharply curtail it.

    The proposed legislation would require all future cell phones to include an FM chip – representing an estimated cost of about $1 for each chip. Although most cell phone manufacturers oppose being mandated to supply FM chips, many cell phones already include FM chips.

    A coalition of six technology industry associations announced their opposition to the “chip mandate” on Monday. “Calls for an FM chip mandate are not about public safety but are instead about propping up a business which consumers are abandoning as they avail themselves of new, more consumer-friendly options,” according to a coalition statement.

    The coalition consists of the CTIA – the Wireless Association, the Consumer Electronics Association, the Information Technology Industry Council, the Rural Cellular Association, TechAmerica and the Telecommunications Industry Association.

    URL: Deal Would Mandate FM Radios In Cell Phones -- InformationWeek
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  19. #19  
    What bugs me is it is another antenae in a gadget that already has to find space for 3 antenae. I think we are spending money, wasting engineering, taking up valuable space, all to save a buggy whip industry. All of this and it will do nothing to save radio anyway.

    People with smartphones listen to podcasts and they stream a broadcast when they want to listen to radio. If there is an emergency and you need a radio, there is likely one available.

    I also find it offensive that the music industry (not musicians) repeatedly try to have their industry propped up by legislation.

    If their business is not working they need to evolve. Stop wasting our government time (and chip away at civil rights simultaneously) trying to get legislation written into law with specious arguments.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by SFHandyman View Post
    What bugs me is it is another antenae in a gadget that already has to find space for 3 antenae. I think we are spending money, wasting engineering, taking up valuable space, all to save a buggy whip industry. All of this and it will do nothing to save radio anyway.

    People with smartphones listen to podcasts and they stream a broadcast when they want to listen to radio. If there is an emergency and you need a radio, there is likely one available.

    I also find it offensive that the music industry (not musicians) repeatedly try to have their industry propped up by legislation.

    If their business is not working they need to evolve. Stop wasting our government time (and chip away at civil rights simultaneously) trying to get legislation written into law with specious arguments.
    I just need to know where the animus to this proposal is coming from ?? How are you or anyone else harmed ??

    It reminds me of the opposition to gay marriage -- why does something that has no effect on the opponents provoke so much passion in them ??

    Commercial radio has agreed to pay to the music industry $100 million dollars in compensation for prospective music usage by these radios.

    I'm guessing that musicians and music publishers are liking that.

    I read somewhere that the music industry has further agreed to compensate OEMs for most if not all of the incremental costs that OEMs incur.

    Somehow the many excellent phones already are equipped with FM radios have found room for the both the radios and antennas, and the "costly" burden that the radios represent.

    As said before -- some people do not have unlimited data plans -- some would if possible, like to listen to FM radio. (I would listen to NPR if I could).

    During 9/11, Katrina, power black outs and other national emergencies cellular communication became useless when cell towers became overloaded by simultaneous calling attempts.

    Getting accurate news and information to folks in times of crisis is genuinely in the national safety interest.

    Mandating these radios is a cost free no brainer. I for one hope they're installed on every forthcoming chipset.

    BREAKING NEWS:

    Water to be infused with Fluoride -- US Government attacks our precious bodily fluids ...
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/24/2010 at 04:59 AM.
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