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  1. Speebs's Avatar
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    #161  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    I don't agree that the location is "not" at ground zero.
    Can you take a look at Google Maps and tell us exactly what the boundaries of "Ground Zero" are? Thanks.
  2. #162  
    The media's attempts at making a meaningful narrative out of the situation is interesting. On one side we have a constitutionally protect group, and on the other we have a sort of xenophobic majority that would like to oppress them out of fear and ignorance. Freedom is not always convenient.
  3. #163  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    Can you take a look at Google Maps and tell us exactly what the boundaries of "Ground Zero" are? Thanks.
    As I said in an earlier post, I'd consider it to extend to buildings that were damaged by the towers. If that's too big, I'd say it extends a block or two beyond the outermost buildings in the WTC complex. There were 7 buildings in the WTC center. The damage happened well beyond those 7 buildings, to include the church mentioned a few posts above.

    From Wikipedia:
    Other buildings
    Five smaller buildings stood around the 16 acres (65,000 m2) block.
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  4. #164  
    All of you that seem to think that it's part of 'Ground Zero', need to take a personal walk down to the 'Wall Street' area and see for your eyes where this 'thing' is in relationship to 'Ground Zero'.

    I personally consider 'Ground Zero' the entire 'World Trade Center', that encompasses the two towers, the lower WTC buildings that were about 10 story tall and WTC Building 7 which was already rebuilt several years ago (about 2 years after 9/11).

    Now if anyone wants to consider the 'dust' that are now in the lungs of all the volunteers, fireman, police that helped in the recovery, that fell in the area, then 'Ground Zero' will encompass the entire lower Manhattan...up to 14th Street!

    Remember, the Republicans voted 'down' to provide aid for our Heros. So now they are up in arms over this building. What happened to all the people (Americans) that need our help in getting Health Care for being exposed to the 'dust' and 'lies'.

    If you can't walk there physically, then don't comment on what you don't really know.

    OK, here's a suggestion, try Google Earth and then do a Street View and walk around, see if that helps all you saying its too close to the site.

    This whole thing is a media/political event because the elections are coming up, are you that naive on why this is being done?

    Don't get yourself taken in by all of this nonsense and lies that you are being told.

    Rob
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  5. #165  
    this may end up a moot point. New York State is about to offer the group State land elsewhere in the City for them to build the Mosque on. The group seemed (via twitter) to be open to consider if any of the proposed sites meet their needs.
  6. Speebs's Avatar
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    #166  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    As I said in an earlier post, I'd consider it to extend to buildings that were damaged by the towers. If that's too big, I'd say it extends a block or two beyond the outermost buildings in the WTC complex. There were 7 buildings in the WTC center. The damage happened well beyond those 7 buildings, to include the church mentioned a few posts above.

    From Wikipedia:
    Other buildings
    Five smaller buildings stood around the 16 acres (65,000 m2) block.
    Are you unwilling or unable to draw a clear line?
  7. Speebs's Avatar
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    #167  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    this may end up a moot point. New York State is about to offer the group State land elsewhere in the City for them to build the Mosque on. The group seemed (via twitter) to be open to consider if any of the proposed sites meet their needs.
    Doesn't that raise issues about chruch vs. state?
  8. #168  
    Quote Originally Posted by rlanza1054 View Post
    All of you that seem to think that it's part of 'Ground Zero', need to take a personal walk down to the 'Wall Street' area and see for your eyes where this 'thing' is in relationship to 'Ground Zero'.

    I personally consider 'Ground Zero' the entire 'World Trade Center', that encompasses the two towers, the lower WTC buildings that were about 10 story tall and WTC Building 7 which was already rebuilt several years ago (about 2 years after 9/11).

    ...
    OK, here's a suggestion, try Google Earth and then do a Street View and walk around, see if that helps all you saying its too close to the site.



    Rob
    I don't know what point you are trying to make (for or against), but here is a shot from Google maps showing the WTC site and the mosque location. The width of 2 city blocks, which is easy walking distance. Out of respect for city residents and those that perished - especially the first responders... that's just too close. They have the right to build there (if zoning allows) but it sure seems disrespectful to the citizens of NYC who overwhelmingly object to the location. IMHO. Keep in mind that the proposed site was damaged by the towers, and the proposed facility will be to replace the current structure that was damaged. If it was damaged by the collapsing towers... ya, I'd say that's part of ground zero...

    Look at the map, and then tell me that this isn't part of "ground zero".
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Workerb33; 08/17/2010 at 05:44 PM.
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  9. #169  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    Doesn't that raise issues about chruch vs. state?
    Not at all. Our community swapped some property with a shopping center to they could both have locations that suited their purposes better.
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  10. #170  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    Are you unwilling or unable to draw a clear line?
    I just did. See the post I just made with a map attached. I'd argue that the boundaries of that map are a minimum area for "ground zero" and the proposed location is well within that... of course this is just my opinion.

    There is no official "decider" on what is or isn't "ground zero" but civility and good manners tell me that the location doesn't pass the "good neighbor" test.
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  11. #171  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    Doesn't that raise issues about chruch vs. state?
    Well according to Patterson and King (politicians), the answer is no. As a person with a legal background: Yes.

    In this case though, if everyone is on board, they would just do it. It would take someone with standing to bring a lawsuit to stop it. (standing would be tough to come by unless you were somehow personally hurt in some way by the state giving away that land).
  12. #172  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    Well according to Patterson and King (politicians), the answer is no. As a person with a legal background: Yes.

    In this case though, if everyone is on board, they would just do it. It would take someone with standing to bring a lawsuit to stop it. (standing would be tough to come by unless you were somehow personally hurt in some way by the state giving away that land).
    I don't think they are "giving it away" but trading for it, which is perfectly acceptable unless they are offering property worth many times more $.
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  13. #173  
    I still want to know why people don't want them to build a mosque there. Just because the people that were responsible for the attacks were Muslim? What if they were Christian, would you want for all those Christian/Catholic churches around it to be knocked down out of respect?
    Last edited by koolkid09; 08/17/2010 at 06:16 PM.
  14. #174  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    I still want to know why people don't want them to build a masque there. Just because the people that were responsible for the attacks were Muslim? What if they were Christian, would you want for all those Christian/Catholic churches around it to be knocked down out of respect?
    It's not just because they were muslim, its that Islam is the thing that motivated them to do it. The attack was carried out in the name of Islam.
  15. #175  
    agreed. if the group is purchasing the land for fair value it wouldn't violate the Establishment clause.
  16. #176  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    It's not just because they were muslim, its that Islam is the thing that motivated them to do it. The attack was carried out in the name of Islam.
    So it's okay to punish an entire religion because of some extremist?
  17. #177  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    So it's okay to punish an entire religion because of some extremist?
    Wasn't our entire country punished because of those "extremists"?
  18. #178  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbdoinit View Post
    Wasn't our entire country punished because of those "extremists"?
    So revenge is the game we're playing?
  19. #179  
    Nobody is being punished. You just asked why people aren't happy about it and what the connection with Islam is. It's not, hey the attackers were all male, so now we don't want any Men to build near Ground Zero. The attackers carried out the attack in the name of Islam. I don't for a second believe that these people represent all islamic people or that anyone else should be punished for their actions, but Workerb33's "Good Neighbor" point is a valid one. It is not and should not be banned by the government, but that doesn't make it a particularly sensitive thing to do. Nor is it particularly strategic if the goal of the group is to bring together Muslim and western cultures as they purport.
  20. #180  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    So revenge is the game we're playing?
    You call that revenge? For the murders of 3000+ office workers? Seriously?
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