Page 21 of 22 FirstFirst ... 1116171819202122 LastLast
Results 401 to 420 of 423
  1. #401  
    agreed
  2. Speebs's Avatar
    Posts
    297 Posts
    Global Posts
    403 Global Posts
    #402  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    The only policy in question is his policy of commenting on local issues.
    Agreed. He really needs to stop doing that. I get the feeling that his advisors don't actually do much advising (or that they aren't very good).
  3. #403  
    I don't even care what his opinion is. I just see his tendency to stick his nose in to local issues as evidence of poor management skills. He could be as bad about micro-managing as Carter was.
    Last edited by Workerb33; 08/23/2010 at 10:42 PM.
  4. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #404  
    Before I forget, I wanted to speak to the Pentagon mosque issue. There is no mosque in the Pentagon; there's an interfaith chapel. Now, a community center with an interfaith chapel is a plan I could get behind. A Muslim organization building a center where people of all faiths can worship would be a huge step towards bettering relations within such a culturally and religiously diverse city as New York.
  5. Speebs's Avatar
    Posts
    297 Posts
    Global Posts
    403 Global Posts
    #405  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Before I forget, I wanted to speak to the Pentagon mosque issue. There is no mosque in the Pentagon; there's an interfaith chapel. Now, a community center with an interfaith chapel is a plan I could get behind. A Muslim organization building a center where people of all faiths can worship would be a huge step towards bettering relations within such a culturally and religiously diverse city as New York.
    Fair enough. My reading led me to believe that there was a Muslim "prayer room" in addition to the chapel, but I guess that was wrong. So is your only issue that this prayer room/mosque is Muslim-only? If so, what's the difference?
  6. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #406  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    Fair enough. My reading led me to believe that there was a Muslim "prayer room" in addition to the chapel, but I guess that was wrong. So is your only issue that this prayer room/mosque is Muslim-only? If so, what's the difference?
    As much as I would have liked to step inside some of the most stunning mosques I've seen, I'm actually okay with them being (mostly) Muslim-only. That's certainly their prerogative and I can appreciate their desire to keep their holy places sacred. My concern is with the symbolism of building this mosque in this place, the obstinate stance they're taking despite their stated goal of building bridges, the various messages its sending to the country and the world, and the awkward position such a plan almost necessarily and predictably creates for everyone.
  7. Speebs's Avatar
    Posts
    297 Posts
    Global Posts
    403 Global Posts
    #407  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    As much as I would have liked to step inside some of the most stunning mosques I've seen, I'm actually okay with them being (mostly) Muslim-only. That's certainly their prerogative and I can appreciate their desire to keep their holy places sacred. My concern is with the symbolism of building this mosque in this place, the obstinate stance they're taking despite their stated goal of building bridges, the various messages its sending to the country and the world, and the awkward position such a plan almost necessarily and predictably creates for everyone.
    Cool. Thanks for laying it out.
  8. #408  
    One of the things I've always admired about the United States is the principles of freedom as they were set up by the Founding Fathers.

    It's a bloody shame that according to many Americans these principles now only apply to white Christian people.

    This ******** hate **** against Muslims has been going on for much longer in my own country (the Netherlands). I saw the Mosque in my neighborhood get sprayed with swastikas and phrases telling them to get the **** out of 'our' country. I hated that crap. The imam of that mosque was one of the nicest people I've ever met and he was always doing everything he could to integrate with the neighborhood rather than alienating his place of prayer from it's environment.

    I hate the Netherlands for this crap. I hate the fact that a xenophobic party got a huge amount of votes in the past elections. I always thought and told people: "Look at America. Even despite the 9/11 attacks they're a lot better than this crap. In America people are free to practice whatever religion they want to practice and wherever they want to do it.".

    I guess I was wrong. Extremely saddening indeed. If the founding father would see all this I'm sure they'd shudder in disgust of what has become of their nation.

    I'm a hardcore atheist myself but I wouldn't ever deny anyone their religion. Too bad American Christians can't do the same.

    The 9/11 attacks were done by terrorist. They happened to be Islamic. There are Christian terrorists too. We don't think all Catholics are child molesters now do we? We don't think all Christians are bombers because of Timothy McVeigh.

    Bunch of hypocrites. Disgusting.
    My shiny new TouchPad apps: Scientific RPN Calculator HD - Screamager HD
  9. Speebs's Avatar
    Posts
    297 Posts
    Global Posts
    403 Global Posts
    #409  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMarco View Post
    One of the things I've always admired about the United States is the principles of freedom as they were set up by the Founding Fathers.

    It's a bloody shame that according to many Americans these principles now only apply to white Christian people.

    This ******** hate **** against Muslims has been going on for much longer in my own country (the Netherlands). I saw the Mosque in my neighborhood get sprayed with swastikas and phrases telling them to get the **** out of 'our' country. I hated that crap. The imam of that mosque was one of the nicest people I've ever met and he was always doing everything he could to integrate with the neighborhood rather than alienating his place of prayer from it's environment.

    I hate the Netherlands for this crap. I hate the fact that a xenophobic party got a huge amount of votes in the past elections. I always thought and told people: "Look at America. Even despite the 9/11 attacks they're a lot better than this crap. In America people are free to practice whatever religion they want to practice and wherever they want to do it.".

    I guess I was wrong. Extremely saddening indeed. If the founding father would see all this I'm sure they'd shudder in disgust of what has become of their nation.

    I'm a hardcore atheist myself but I wouldn't ever deny anyone their religion. Too bad American Christians can't do the same.

    The 9/11 attacks were done by terrorist. They happened to be Islamic. There are Christian terrorists too. We don't think all Catholics are child molesters now do we? We don't think all Christians are bombers because of Timothy McVeigh.

    Bunch of hypocrites. Disgusting.
    While I generally agree with your sentiment, you have to be careful about singling out Christians. There are xenophobic fundamentalists in every group.
  10. #410  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214 View Post
    Or how about this idea obama, how about they jam a kkk church RIGHT smack dab in front of the white house? After all, tolerance of all belief systems was what our forefathers based this country upon, right lil barackus? What an preposterously arrogant, long-winded fool you are. Step down.
    Wow! Just wow.

    A quick Google search will reveal numerous German, Korean, Italian and Japanese institutions, churches and businesses within walking distance of ground zero. Collectively those countries are responsible for tens of thousands (if not more) American deaths.

    Come on people....pull your heads out of the sand that is the American Christian Religious Right. 9/11 was the act of radical extremists not mainstream Muslims. To insinuate anything else is deplorable.
    Sprint|Samsung Epic
  11. #411  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMarco View Post
    One of the things I've always admired about the United States is the principles of freedom as they were set up by the Founding Fathers.

    It's a bloody shame that according to many Americans these principles now only apply to white Christian people.

    This ******** hate **** against Muslims has been going on for much longer in my own country (the Netherlands). I saw the Mosque in my neighborhood get sprayed with swastikas and phrases telling them to get the **** out of 'our' country. I hated that crap. The imam of that mosque was one of the nicest people I've ever met and he was always doing everything he could to integrate with the neighborhood rather than alienating his place of prayer from it's environment.

    I hate the Netherlands for this crap. I hate the fact that a xenophobic party got a huge amount of votes in the past elections. I always thought and told people: "Look at America. Even despite the 9/11 attacks they're a lot better than this crap. In America people are free to practice whatever religion they want to practice and wherever they want to do it.".

    I guess I was wrong. Extremely saddening indeed. If the founding father would see all this I'm sure they'd shudder in disgust of what has become of their nation.

    I'm a hardcore atheist myself but I wouldn't ever deny anyone their religion. Too bad American Christians can't do the same.

    The 9/11 attacks were done by terrorist. They happened to be Islamic. There are Christian terrorists too. We don't think all Catholics are child molesters now do we? We don't think all Christians are bombers because of Timothy McVeigh.

    Bunch of hypocrites. Disgusting.
    Two things.

    In this post you just did the same "label, generalize, attack" thing that you are complaining about. Do you really think that everyone opposed to the site is a "Christian"? No athiests? Did you happen to see my post about the current Miss America opposing it... as a practicing Muslim?

    and, did someone in your country (I can't recall) run a cartoon depicting a Muslim figure and he was then put on a death list (like what happened to Salman Rushdie) by an angry Imam in the middle east? what did your local Imam say about that? Just curious if he publicly speaks out against those declarations to kill someone like that. I hope he does.
  12. #412  
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/24/ny...ek.html?src=mv

    They have been denying this Greek Orthodox church any permits to rebuild.. yet they have no problem approving another church ? (i say church in the sense that i don't care the religion but it's the double standard) Why deny a church that was already there and DAMAGED! by falling buildings... then go ahead and approve this?
  13. Speebs's Avatar
    Posts
    297 Posts
    Global Posts
    403 Global Posts
    #413  
    Quote Originally Posted by antonio3 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/24/ny...ek.html?src=mv

    They have been denying this Greek Orthodox church any permits to rebuild.. yet they have no problem approving another church ? (i say church in the sense that i don't care the religion but it's the double standard) Why deny a church that was already there and DAMAGED! by falling buildings... then go ahead and approve this?
    Who is "they"? The people "denying" the church are not the same people "approving" the mosque. You are misinformed. Before getting angry, please do your research (or read the thread).

    EDIT: I just read that article. Did you read the last paragraph?

    Quote Originally Posted by article
    Mr. Sigmund, the Port Authority spokesman, said the authority has no oversight of any building outside the ground zero reconstruction zone, including the community and mosque.
  14. #414  
    Workerb33,

    I agree I shouldn't generalize. It's just that I have yet to see the first atheist opposing this center (while being fine with churches at the same location of course, because a lot of atheist would oppose any religious room/building).

    All I see in the news and anywhere on the internet is Christian right wingers screaming bloody murder about it. It's this kind of person that angers me. The ones that scream about freedom and all that but only when it applies to Christian white people. I'm convinced that a large majority of those who make a lot noise about this mosque fall in this category.

    I do know that there are Christians who aren't like that. I guess I should have been more clear about this.

    The cartoon you mentioned was published in Denmark, not the Netherlands/Holland. I have no idea what that imam thought about it because I didn't live in that neighborhood anymore at the time.

    Then finally about this imam: What should he have done according to you? Go out on the streets and publically apologize for stuff he had absolutely no part in? Give me a break. Did you see all catholic priests reach out and apologize for all the child molesting that's going on inside the Catholic church? I think not.
    My shiny new TouchPad apps: Scientific RPN Calculator HD - Screamager HD
  15. #415  
    thank you for ecknowledging the hasty generalization. you are a gentleman and a scholar.

    Concerning the Imam, I'd hope he would denounce it to his congregation, and I hope he'd denounce it to any reporter that asked. people on the left constantly demand that politicians denounce the hard-right-whackos, so turnabout is fair play.

    And if you haven't found any atheists opposing it, you probably haven't looked. You certainly won't find it on the news because that wouldn't make a good story. You know those videos of shouting protesters are staged, right? I've seen it. They stand around until a TV camera shows up, then they go crazy while the reporter gets a sound bite for the evening news, and then he tries to interview the craziest ones he can find. It's been said that they never report on the building that DIDN'T burn down. Conflict is at the heart of any journalist's agenda.

    and that's just like the way they pick spectators to put up on the scoreboard at a football game.

    I didn't go out and find you any atheists (not my job) but I did provide you with one practicing muslim living in the usa that opposes the location (miss usa).
    Run your ad here... reach thousands daily...



    ...Now accepting orders for my upcoming iHandle™.
    Reserve yours today!
  16. #416  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    this is getting silly. The official whitehouse policy is to support and uphold the constitution, which obama is doing.

    what caused trouble was articulating that instead of ignoring it. If he couldn't ignore it (like the police incident in massachusetts) then the oponents wish he had added an 'opinion' that they should build elsewhere. Presidents offer opinion and pressure all the time.

    but lets not turn this in to a policy debate. The only policy in question is his policy of commenting on local issues.
    I would suggest however humbly, that it is a given that the admin supports the constitution. This little hot potatoe, would have burned Obama either way. In fact I do recall in other blogs and a couple of papers south of the border, demanding to know where the president stood.
    What he said, was not to the likeing of many people, who are against this building and prayer room. If he said nothing, he was on the side of the group who are against the building of the prayer room, he said something that is construed as being on side. When in fact all he said was he supported the right of freedom of religion.
    As I said, hot potatoe, and burned either way.
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  17. #417  
    Personally I would have been happiest if he said "they have the right, but that location is too controversial) or nothing at all.

    Given how politicians like to straddle issues that way, it was easy to read in to his comments because he didn't try to straddle the issue.

    Personally, I wish he's talk much less. He should leave stuff like this to Biden. I think he just likes to hear himself talk.
  18. #418  
    Ha, I just saw this post on Twitter that I thought was pretty funny:

    I do not believe in atheists, therefore atheists do not exist!
  19. groovy's Avatar
    Posts
    941 Posts
    Global Posts
    955 Global Posts
    #419  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    ...
    Personally, I wish he's talk much less. He should leave stuff like this to Biden...
    Biden? I think the POTUS is telling vPOTUS to keep his trap shut on this one. He's not known for his mastery of nuanced language. On the other hand, it would be funny as heck.
  20. irateb's Avatar
    Posts
    257 Posts
    Global Posts
    269 Global Posts
    #420  
    Wow, finally made it through this thread. I figured I needed to read it after my wife and I discussed it yesterday. I am in the poor taste/good neighbor camp. I understand it is legal, but it's not the best place or time to do it. I say not the best time because this country is having some big race/ethnic background/religion issues right now. Both my wife and I thought having a multi-race/multi-cultural president would do wonders for these types of relations in this country, but it has seemed to do the opposite.

    But back to the subject, my wife brought up a good point as she is for the building to continue to be built. Mind you, her father is a Muslim American. He converted to Islam in the 70s as a troubled black man who needed a direction, and Islam has helped him to become a great man and father now. The big issue that if they move it, the people who live/work/play where they move it to are going to complain. Unless they move it to the middle of Death Valley, people are going to complain. I know there are news stories of mosque building opposition here in Georgia, so I'm positive you can find these stories everywhere else, much less two blocks from where the Towers stood. So I don't think it makes a difference if they move it, they're still going to face opposition, it just won't be national front page news. My assumption (I know, I know...) is that they probably think "We've paid the money, people are going to complain no matter where we go, so we might as well continue."

    I also wanted to counter a point made somewhere in the middle of this thread. Someone stated something to the effect that if we see people of Middle Eastern descent on a plane, we start to racially profile them. That may be true, but racial profiling is only good as long as you are not the one being profiled. If you are the one being profiled, it sucks. Hardcore. Especially when you have done nothing to deserve it.
    /soapbox

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions