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  1. Speebs's Avatar
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    #381  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Yes, why are we *still* spinning around the legality of this? That was never the issue.
    Who is "we"? I thought most of us had cleared that up by now.
  2. Speebs's Avatar
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    #382  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Of course, they're not actually being portrayed as bigots themselves. How could they be since they're Democrats? They're just being portrayed as pandering to bigots.
    You don't do much for your side of the argument when you just resort to name calling instead of offering something to the discussion. There is no reason that this has to be a Democrat vs. Republican issue at all.
  3. Speebs's Avatar
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    #383  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    I just learned some really interesting things...

    1. the current Miss USA is Muslim
    2. she competed in the swimsuit competition. when did the muslim dress code change?
    3. she has publicly stated that she thinks the mosque should not be built so close to ground zero.

    Folks, you can't make this stuff up!
    You were making some good arguments. Don't fall into the trap of some of your colleagues by clouding the issue :-/ I can tell that you're a smart guy but this post was disappointing.
  4. Speebs's Avatar
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    #384  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbdoinit View Post
    I was always under the impression that "discourse" was achieved without talking down to people.

    I guess not.

    Sad.
    I'm sure Jonathan can defend himself, but I didn't see any "talking down". The guy mad an incredibly inaccurate and inflammatory post, and Jonathan pointed out (very tactfully, I thought) what was wrong with it and why articles and posts like that tend to take these discussions downhill fast.
  5. groovy's Avatar
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    #385  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    You don't do much for your side of the argument when you just resort to name calling instead of offering something to the discussion. There is no reason that this has to be a Democrat vs. Republican issue at all.
    Yes, you're right. I wish you would have pointed that out earlier in this thread when people were implying that those opposed to this plan were bigots. As for my statement, it is true that Harry Reid is being portrayed as "pandering to bigots" in the media. Why isn't he being portrayed as a bigot like Gingrich or other Republicans? Your guess is as good as mine.
  6. Speebs's Avatar
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    #386  
    Quote Originally Posted by groovy View Post
    Yes, you're right. I wish you would have pointed that out earlier in this thread when people were implying that those opposed to this plan were bigots. As for my statement, it is true that Harry Reid is being portrayed as "pandering to bigots" in the media. Why isn't he being portrayed as a bigot like Gingrich or other Republicans? Your guess is as good as mine.
    What does media coverage and/or bias have to do with the appropriateness of the mosque, though?
  7. groovy's Avatar
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    #387  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    A militia is an organized group of individuals... whether each person is considered his own militia is up for debate.

    I guess I did miss Groovy's point. He seemed to be comparing the Constitutional right to build the mosque without government intervention (which everyone agrees on) to the Constitutional right to bear arms, which not everyone agrees on. So I'm failing to see how they are analogous.
    The question was really for xForsaken. Sorry for derailing the thread.
  8. #388  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    You were making some good arguments. Don't fall into the trap of some of your colleagues by clouding the issue :-/ I can tell that you're a smart guy but this post was disappointing.
    sorry to disappoint you. Personally, I find it very interesting that a practicing muslim female in a very public spotligjt has taken a public position against this location.

    obviously I don't follow beauty contests so I had no idea who is currently miss usa until I saw her on the news tonight. I'm guessing most of the others on this thread weren't aware of her, and her position on this.

    if you don't see the uniqueness and the irony in that, I can't help ya. But thanks for the advice.
  9. Speebs's Avatar
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    #389  
    Quote Originally Posted by Workerb33 View Post
    sorry to disappoint you. Personally, I find it very interesting that a practicing muslim female in a very public spotligjt has taken a public position against this location.

    obviously I don't follow beauty contests so I had no idea who is currently miss usa until I saw her on the news tonight. I'm guessing most of the others on this thread weren't aware of her, and her position on this.

    if you don't see the uniqueness and the irony in that, I can't help ya. But thanks for the advice.
    I don't see any uniqueness or irony... there are all flavors of every religion- clearly, she is not "orthodox," so I'm not really surprised by this.
  10. #390  
    if your sense of humor and sense of irony are broken, I can't help ya, sport.
  11. #391  
    to call people like Groovy an Micael bigots is plain wrong, I agree with them, the mosque should not be built there. it has nothing to do with being bigoted, it has everything to do with what people percieve. A few, and I mean a very few, could possibly be construed as bigots, the rest, are just saying its kind of tacky, to the extreme. ohhhh geeeshhh im going to the dark side..
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  12. Speebs's Avatar
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    #392  
    Quote Originally Posted by xForsaken View Post
    to call people like Groovy an Micael bigots is plain wrong, I agree with them, the mosque should not be built there. it has nothing to do with being bigoted, it has everything to do with what people percieve. A few, and I mean a very few, could possibly be construed as bigots, the rest, are just saying its kind of tacky, to the extreme. ohhhh geeeshhh im going to the dark side..
    I'm not claiming that anyone on this forum is bigoted. However, isn't bigotry fundamentally about what people percieve?

    Where should it be built? Should it be built outside the neighborhood it is supposed to be servicing?
  13. #393  
    Everyone seems to be ignoring the title of the thread, namely the administration's support for the center at that location.

    I for one, think it was just bad politics for the president to take a position on this one.
  14. #394  
    OK, let's stop name calling and re-insert our sense of humor as well as sense of perspective. I'm not thrilled with have this mosque built, but this is still really good. Be sure you watch it all, including the part where Steward says he was "wrong" and that Heston was right. I almost fell over. I can't say I agree with his change of position or that Heston was right, either. However, this clip will be valuable some day when the roles are reversed again.

    Bottom line, Murdoch is a terrorist? Really clever no matter which side you are on:
    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/th...meland-edition
  15. Speebs's Avatar
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    #395  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    Everyone seems to be ignoring the title of the thread, namely the administration's support for the center at that location.

    I for one, think it was just bad politics for the president to take a position on this one.
    I agree that he should have just stayed out of it completely, but he followed up specifically to say that he does not have a position on whether or not it should be built. "The Administration" doesn't have an official stance on the issue.
  16. #396  
    Quote Originally Posted by Speebs View Post
    I agree that he should have just stayed out of it completely, but he followed up specifically to say that he does not have a position on whether or not it should be built. "The Administration" doesn't have an official stance on the issue.
    Of course it doesn't have an official stance now (Now that it's become a "political football").

    They're worried about the mid-term elections in November. That's why.
  17. Speebs's Avatar
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    #397  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbdoinit View Post
    Of course it doesn't have an official stance now (Now that it's become a "political football").

    They're worried about the mid-term elections in November. That's why.
    ..but it didn't have an official stance before either.
  18. #398  
    the idea of their being no official white house position is nonsense. "Officially", there is no political entity known as "the white house". It is a residence/office for the executive, or President, known as "Obama". Obama came out in support of the center. He did so in a public speech, not in a private conversation with friends. Hard to take that any other way than the President supporting...
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    #399  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    the idea of their being no official white house position is nonsense. "Officially", there is no political entity known as "the white house". It is a residence/office for the executive, or President, known as "Obama". Obama came out in support of the center. He did so in a public speech, not in a private conversation with friends. Hard to take that any other way than the President supporting...
    He supported the Constitutional right to built it- he didn't say anything more than that, did he?
  20. #400  
    this is getting silly. The official whitehouse policy is to support and uphold the constitution, which obama is doing.

    what caused trouble was articulating that instead of ignoring it. If he couldn't ignore it (like the police incident in massachusetts) then the oponents wish he had added an 'opinion' that they should build elsewhere. Presidents offer opinion and pressure all the time.

    but lets not turn this in to a policy debate. The only policy in question is his policy of commenting on local issues.

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